Terrible train accident in Spain (Galicia)

[Dani]

The second worst train derailment in Spain has happened today at 21h, in Galicia. To be worst, today was a big celebration day in Galicia and holidays in the region. It has been an "Alvia" train travelling from Madrid to Ferrol with 235 people.

 

13 cars have derailed, 3 burned, and one jumped due to the speed and collision to a road some meters higher than rails.

 

My deepest condolences to all.

 

 

NOTE: The following images are quite strong and high resolution!!! => http://www.abc.es/fotos-galicia/20130724/accidente-tren-santiago-imagenes-151754294794.html?elemento=2#

Edited July 24, 2013 by Dani

[bikkuri bahn]

Preliminary reports are saying the train was going 180km/h(!) through a stretch of track rated at 80km/h.  Combined with a curve...Apparently this area is signaled with the legacy ASFA system, rather than ERTMS level 1.  Don't know if ASFA provides overspeed control.

[Ochanomizu]

I feel such sorrow for the victims and their families.

[JR 500系]

That's terrible... What a nightmare...

 

My deepest condolences to all..

[NuclearErick]

was update to 78 deaths

 

 

Edited July 25, 2013 by NuclearErick

[Nick_Burman]

Don't know if ASFA provides overspeed control.

 I did a spot of research on some Spanish sites; ASFA has no speed control function, other that that connected to signal aspects.

 

Cheers NB

[Densha]

What?! Not speed control?! I thought the Dutch speed control that doesn't work below 40km/h was bad, but they don't even have any speed control? The EU really needs to invest money in ERMTS, it's only done locally and the local governments simply don't have money for it. In the Netherlands there have been many accidents that were caused by the old system, and every time they say they will install the new systems soon but they don't do it and when another accident happens they just keep saying the same thing.

For now, my condolences to the people who died in this awful accident and I hope the people that survived this are okay.

 

The video NuclearErick posted shows that the speed really was much too high. Actually it's a wonder there was a camera at exactly that place.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Densha

[bill937ca]

was update to 78 deaths

 

 

 

Why is the video the reverse of the top image?

[bikkuri bahn]

Why is the video the reverse of the top image?

I think it was taken from the other end.  The Talgo 250 Dual has a locomotive on each end.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_130

[bill937ca]

This is not the first "accident" where one of these trains was running at over twice the posted limit.

Edited July 25, 2013 by bill937ca

[Mudkip Orange]

So you have a 200km/h line with an 80km/h hour curve in the middle of it and, oh yeah, the speed-restricted section drops ETCS in favor of the older system.

 

Great engineering there guys.

[Mudkip Orange]

Shades of Morpeth, really.

[ToniBabelony]

First the shock and the sadness. Now comes the anger against the driver and RENFE.

 

I feel for those affected and hope it's an accident, rather than the driver's fault (which would then be combined with the epic fail safety system called ASFA). It sure doesn't look like an accident... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57595419/driver-in-deadly-spain-train-crash-under-scrutiny/

 

Also, what insane train driver would whip out his camera and take a picture of the speedometer at maximum speed?? He already should have been fired for that a year ago!

[westfalen]

It would be interesting to know what the speed limit leading up to the curve was, this is looking similar to the derailment of QR's Cairns Tilt Train in 2004 which happened on a tight radius curve at the end of a straight section. The end result of penny pinching railway administrations trying to run high speed trains on railway alignments designed in the steam era of the 19th century. I can't imagine any train driver deliberately doing 100kph over the speed limit unless he had a death wish.

[Davo Dentetsu]

Shades of Morpeth, really.

 

And Morpeth had it twice before any action!  Us humans just never learn... :(

[Dani]

Shame and indignation are the only two words that come to my mind. Shame of the politicians (just the bad ones, but in majority) of that country (mine, despite I feel more Catalan) who filled their pockets robing in the good times, and wasted money in absurd projects. Talking just about trains (I could give hundreds of examples), they wasted and inconceivable amount of money to be the second country in the WORLD with more kilometers of high speed tracks (just before Chine), half of them with no use. To do it, suppliers were chosen without inviting tenders and now it's proved that people from the current government had more that 42 million € in Switzerland (black money) coming from that and other big construction concessions. And everybody is sure the previous government did the same things. On the other hand, they cut all kind of investments in security, modernization, maintenance, ... and that accident from Galicia is not the first that could have been prevented.

 

It's not causality that we suffer now accidents that could be easily prevented. In 2006 the subway of Valencia had an accident with 43 dead people (that one was the second worst until today). Black boxes or registers disappeared, train maintenance books disintegrated... no one took responsibilities, no resigns, and all the previous existing reports saying there was a lack of maintenance in the place of the accident also missing (security systems where not working from long time ago and tracks where not well fixed). Now seems that someone anonymous who couldn't sleep made this documentation appear and the case has been reopened, thanks mainly to this fantastic documentary (sorry, I couldn't find it subtitled):

 

 

But by far, those bad politicians DO NOT represent all of them, neither the fantastic, honest, hard workers and funny people from Spain.

 

 

[Mudkip Orange]

It would be interesting to know what the speed limit leading up to the curve was, this is looking similar to the derailment of QR's Cairns Tilt Train in 2004 which happened on a tight radius curve at the end of a straight section. The end result of penny pinching railway administrations trying to run high speed trains on railway alignments designed in the steam era of the 19th century. I can't imagine any train driver deliberately doing 100kph over the speed limit unless he had a death wish.

 

You can see for yourself on Google. Roughly 60-70km of solid 200km/h line with what looks like a 4km minimum radius, then an 80 km/h curve at the end of a tunnel which means there's no way to even visually identify "hey, that looks like a sharp curve" - by the time you exit the tunnel at cruising speed you are well and truly f***ed.

[westfalen]

You can see for yourself on Google. Roughly 60-70km of solid 200km/h line with what looks like a 4km minimum radius, then an 80 km/h curve at the end of a tunnel which means there's no way to even visually identify "hey, that looks like a sharp curve" - by the time you exit the tunnel at cruising speed you are well and truly f***ed.

Just as I guessed, it takes a bit of distance to reduce speed from 200 to 80, you would only need to be distracted for a few seconds to whittle down the distance between you and the curve to less than the safe margin. If there is no automatic speed control on that section of line they really should have two drivers up front, we do on QR with a top speed of only 160KPH. Very much like the situation that caused the tilt train derailment in Queensland, one of the two drivers was back in the loco's galley behind the cab making a cup of coffee when the one driving lost track of where he was for a split second. The Tilt Train maximum speed was reduced from 160kph to 100 until they came up with a solution which consisted in the main of installing warning signs before significant speed reductions.

 

I hear on the news that the driver has been charged with negligent homicide but I'd like to hear the full story and see the results of an investigation before I pass judgement.

Edited July 27, 2013 by westfalen

[Dani]

He had 1'30 minutes to reduce speed (4 km before the curve), no more. There is no signal or warning before this 1'30 m., it's something that driver must know, and there is no indication in the route book they use. Just from 190km/h to 80km/h exactly in the curve. When doing the high speed line, the company decided not to invest in removing the curve.

 

And the company (RENFE) brought a private prosecution against the driver, when I think the company should be judged as well. Double standards, in my opinion...

 

[westfalen]

Crazy. If there was no form of automatic train control or second man in the cab that was an accident that was waiting to happen regardless of what the driver might be accused of. There was a claim in this morning's newspaper that he was talking on his mobile phone but anything could distract you enough to miss your braking point at those speeds, a couple of seconds to scratch your nose, a couple to realise where you are and a couple more to react and apply the brakes and it's too late.

[Mudkip Orange]

I'm just blown away by how much the media has done to whip up a frenzy against the engineer.

 

The comments on this Slate piece will make you weep.

[westfalen]

The primary function of a train driver is to cop the blame when anything goes wrong.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello Mr Westfalen,

 

So sorry, but the primary function of a train driver must be to ensure the safety of his passengers.  Failing to do so results in terrible tragedies, such as this one.  This is the primary function of all railway staff, not just drivers.  In any situation railways staff must always ask themselves the question, "Is this safe?".

 

It is widely reported that the train was speeding.  Under what authority was the train travelling at such speed?  It is irrational to blame the lack of speed limiting technology as the cause of the accident.  The train has a brake, which the driver failed to use properly.  He has brought such shame upon himself, his family and his profession.

[cteno4]

I'm just blown away by how much the media has done to whip up a frenzy against the engineer.

 

The comments on this Slate piece will make you weep.

 

The root is the Internet with Facebook, tiwitter, forums (yes like us), and pseudo news sites like reddit and others that any piece do information regardless of its validity, truth, or correlation can go viral. Then our so much weakened media that has bled off most of its experienced editorial and reporting staff and management that knows nothing of what real news is just feeds on it then the public feeds on it and they go to the Internet and shout and the cycle just gets more viral and vicious...

 

Use to be very seasoned editors would make sure things were backed up before the ran with a story, but now its just a glance at the Internet to find sources (that were all sourced from the same source) to "verify" their facts in a race to beat their competition along with the we should go with it because our completion is going to regardless if its true or not..

 

Very interesting times article on this phenom with the Boston bombing yesterday.

 

http://nyti.ms/18A9KVt

 

Important to let the facts come out to draw the final conclusions on the Internet and media "facts" being thrown around.

 

Jeff

[westfalen]

Hello Mr Westfalen,

 

So sorry, but the primary function of a train driver must be to ensure the safety of his passengers.  Failing to do so results in terrible tragedies, such as this one.  This is the primary function of all railway staff, not just drivers.  In any situation railways staff must always ask themselves the question, "Is this safe?".

 

It is widely reported that the train was speeding.  Under what authority was the train travelling at such speed?  It is irrational to blame the lack of speed limiting technology as the cause of the accident.  The train has a brake, which the driver failed to use properly.  He has brought such shame upon himself, his family and his profession.

No train driver in the world, myself included, would argue with your first paragraph however until a proper investigation is completed we don't know any facts other than that the train was speeding. The driver may be at fault, or he may not, if it turns out that he did deliberately exceed the speed limit then yes, he has brought shame to himself and his brethren and I assure you he would be the exception rather than the rule. The fact remains that when trains are run at those speeds there needs to be some aids for the driver other than his own wits like some form of automatic train control, having 81km of 200kmh running before a 80kmh curve with nothing to automatically slow down or stop the train if the speed is being exceeded is just plain wrong.

 

My statement is based on my experience from 34 years as a railwayman that the driver is always the first to be blamed for an accident, either by railway management and politicians trying to cover their behinds and making statements before investigators have even finished looking at the crash site, or these days by what people read on Facebook, twitter, etc. If it turns out the driver was not at fault in this instance my bet is that it will quickly drop from the news media's attention as happened here earlier this year when the train crashed into Cleveland station after the brakes failed to even slow the train on rails contaminated by wet leaves, railway officials and politicians immediately appeared on the news saying there was nothing wrong with the train and video of the driver being questioned by the police (a routine procedure) was repeatedly shown.  After an investigation showed the driver was not at fault and in fact did everything in his power to stop the train nothing more was heard of the matter in the public media even though the authorities still insisted that nothing happening when the brakes were applied and a train crahing into a station did not constitute a catastrophic brake failure. The metrolink crash at Chatsworth, Califiornia is another case in point. All we hear of that is that the engineer was using his mobile phone when he passed the red signal, in fact it has become part of Queensland Rail's training and I agree was the primary cause of the crash, what you don't hear is the other contributing factors that there was no form of train control or cab signals or even something as primitive as AWS to alert him of approaching a restricted signal and that he was at the later part of a long shift split between morning and afternoon peaks that he had been working for several days and was possibly fatigued. You don't hear about those because they are something the railroad can be blamed for.