"Green Tea" Series 117

[bill937ca]

[John P Boogerd]

Hey Bill - I live in Canada, too and I'm about the same age as you - where are you located?  Any others in Canada?  I'm in Calgary.

[miyakoji]

Yeah, JRW's solid color liveries.  My first post here on JNS Forum was about this, specifically the school bus yellow they're using down in Okayama/Hiroshima.  Some of the colors they chose, in fact all of them except the yellow, I think are ok.  But, how they suit the various models of trains, varies quite a bit.  I don't think the 117s, a favorite of mine, look really good in this.  105s look pretty good, maybe since their design is basically a block.:)

[Densha]

I posted this video a while back on the forums:

 

http://youtu.be/7CtQOlXZPGM

JR West 113 series in all sorts of liveries, including even sets that feature multiple liveries. And that's only a selection of all available combinations I've seen on youtube.

[bill937ca]

Hey Bill - I live in Canada, too and I'm about the same age as you - where are you located?  Any others in Canada?  I'm in Calgary.

 

Hey John.  I'm in Belleville, Ontario.    Hope you weren't flooded during that mess in Calgary and area

Edited July 5, 2013 by bill937ca

[miyakoji]

JR West 113 series in all sorts of liveries, including even sets that feature multiple liveries. And that's only a selection of all available combinations I've seen on youtube.

Those mixed sets of Shonan colors and Cafe au Lait were pretty common when I was there.  I don't know how that came about, the Cafe au Lait liveried cars had refurbished interiors with much nicer reversible seats, while the Shonan cars had (original, I assume) fixed box seats.  What generation of cars make up the sets that get the single-color liveries I'm not sure, but in the case of the 113s/115s in the Kyoto area (as in the video), the single-color sets seem to have that chrome frame around the windshields, which I think were older cars.  But then the intermediates may be a different generation.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello miyakoji-san,

 

If Shonan is 115系 then it would have fixed box seats.  I have fond memory.  The seat was heated in the winter and very comfortable.

[Guest ___]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Ochanomizu" data-cid="84093" data-time="1373242277"><p>

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<p class='bbc_indent' style='margin-left: 40px;'>Hello miyakoji-san,</p>

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<p class='bbc_indent' style='margin-left: 40px;'>If Shonan is 115系 then it would have fixed box seats. I have fond memory. The seat was heated in the winter and very comfortable.</p></p></blockquote>

 

Heated seats!? Now that's a pretty novel idea I wish I would see more on trains these days. I had them in a Lincoln Towncar I once owned and loved them.

[bikkuri bahn]

Heated seats

Yes, the heaters (behind louvered stainless panels) were located right under the seats- as a little kid, if you swung your legs, you'd hit the panels with a clang!  And the seats were indeed nice in winter, with nice plush cushioning, unlike the nasty JR East plasticky minimally-cushioned seating nowadays* (JR West seats are better, tho).

 

*alot of fans consider the JR E series commuter stock "cattle cars" in terms of passenger comfort.

Edited July 8, 2013 by bikkuri bahn

[Densha]

BB,

Although I've never been in Japan so nor on Japanese trains, I know that "cattle car" feeling.

All pre-'2000s trains and tram over here had very comfortable seats but the newer models (and renovated interiors of old stock) have very uncomfortable seats and sometimes even complicated floors (low-floor trams/trains with higher floors above the bogies).

The government even dares to speak "more comfortable vehicles!" but that's just nonsense as the older stock has much better comfort, and I'm not even mentioning the terrible suspension of low-floor trams.

[bikkuri bahn]

Densha,

I admit some of my criticism comes from the old guy "things were better in the old days" tendencies I have, but subjectively the suburban railway stock was more comfortable back then.  Commuter stock such as the E233's it doesn't really matter 'cause you're not riding for long distances or you're standing, but woe if you're in a Shonan Shinjuku Line E231 for a long ride- your bottom will be aching at the end. JR East is all about efficiency and squeezing the last cent from all the capital stock they have- overall it results in great service, but there are some minuses.  On the other hand, JR West has to compete with very nimble private railway operators, and are much more sensitive to customer complaints (perhaps partly due to the Amagasaki crash), so their comfort factor on suburban stock is a notch above JR-E, imo.  Of course, the passenger capacity figures are less in Kansai, so the trains have a less cattle car feeling-the 223 series are nice, and have a private railway kaisoku or tokkyu car feeling to them, likely deliberate.

 

As for Europe, it seemed at least a few years ago, some fans there were bemoaning the spread of the short streetcarlike EMUs/DMUs (Desiros or "Disastros") that were replacing the comfortable, if somewhat tatty loco-hauled coaching stock.  I guess the new stuff is much more efficient and cheap to operate.  Progress, eh?

Edited July 8, 2013 by bikkuri bahn

[Densha]

In the Netherlands we have a bunch of Stadler GTW units owned by private railway companies, these have slightly more comfort than the stripped down to minimum SLT EMU's. Even the intercity stock these days is built for the lowest price and features ugly interiors and bad seats, not as bad as the local trains I mentioned though.

[bikkuri bahn]

I get the sense that Stadler has a good reputation for their products, perhaps better than the "Big 3"- is this true?  They certainly are worshiped as god's answer to perfect trains by some posters on U.S. transit blogs (to the extent that I almost think they are on the make to said manufacturer).

[Densha]

It may be a better idea to continue this talk in another topic, but so far I know Stadler is getting more and more orders over the time and somehow is still able to deliver fast and I've almost never heard about their trains breaking down. The passenger comfort of the GTW is (for today's low standard on the national network) okay, but this mainly depends on the local authority's say in that. Also, the accelerate damn fast. I haven't been in their FLIRT and KISS (double deckers only used in Germany and Switzerland) units, but there are some FLIRT's in use for services to Germany and some more are planned.

[Ochanomizu]

Yes, the heaters (behind louvered stainless panels) were located right under the seats- as a little kid, if you swung your legs, you'd hit the panels with a clang!  And the seats were indeed nice in winter, with nice plush cushioning, unlike the nasty JR East plasticky minimally-cushioned seating nowadays* (JR West seats are better, tho).

 

Hello Mr bikkuri bahn,

 

Yes. I think the seat covering was blue valour.  The seats were so warm and appreciated in the snow.  Alas, in school uniform I was not permitted to sit, even though the trains where I lived were rarely crowded and seats were usually available.

[Sacto1985]

bikkuri bahn, one thing I've seen from a watching a lot of zenmen tenbou videos is that JR East trains tend to have pretty loud traction motors. The E231's going from Ueno to Utsunomiya are not in the quiet department, unlike the 223's on the San'yō Main Line from Osaka west to Himeji, which are not really the loud even though the 223's can run at 130 km/h.

 

I also think after that experience many years ago when Emperor visited Nara after coming in from Tokyo to Kyoto on the Shinkansen by riding a Kintetsu train from Kyoto to Nara convinced JR West they needed a lot more modern rolling stock in the "Urban Network" region. That's the reason (in my opinion) JR West bought a lot of new EMU's for commuter service--207's, 221's, 223's, 225's and 321's.

[bikkuri bahn]

Densha, thanks for the info on Stadler. :)

 

Now, swinging the coversation back to JR rolling stock.  Yes, the JR East rolling stock seem to have some traction noise coming through the floor, though I would consider that a positive characteristic!  Whether that is due to traction motor design, the car body structure, or floor insulation (or lack of it), I dunno. All I know is I still like the JR West stock better at least from a railfan perspective, as they use driving motor cars (kumoha), so you get the zenmentenbou experience plus some traction motor noise, all with a huge view ahead.

Edited July 9, 2013 by bikkuri bahn

[bikkuri bahn]

Hello Mr bikkuri bahn,

 

Yes. I think the seat covering was blue valour.  The seats were so warm and appreciated in the snow.  Alas, in school uniform I was not permitted to sit, even though the trains where I lived were rarely crowded and seats were usually available.

Ah, the blue velour.  On the Yokusuka Line 113's of my childhood.  Also, I must have been 12 or so, on a trip to Osaka, my cousin and I took the Kansai Main Line via Kameyama and Nara after an early morning ride on a 0 series from Tokyo to Nagoya.  We caught a 103 series from Nara, it was a midday service so pretty empty, I could lie down on those long longitudinal seats, and as it was still March, that heating was appreciated.

[E6系]

...  Yes, the JR East rolling stock seem to have some traction noise coming through the floor, though I would consider that a positive characteristic!  ...

 

Hello Mr bikkuri bahn,

 

Yes.  I must agree with you.  My feeling is the motor is singing.  It is a comfort to hear.  I also like the characteristic gentle dip of the 113 / 115 as they travel over a turnout, but perhaps that has more to do with the track than the suspension.

[Densha]

I think this fits in this topic so I post it here.

 

This is a music video featuring all former JNR trains now in use by JR West. I think the song is from the Touhou series, but for people that don't care about that it still features the trains.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tbYuok3ppU

[bikkuri bahn]

Yes.  I must agree with you.  My feeling is the motor is singing.  It is a comfort to hear.  I also like the characteristic gentle dip of the 113 / 115 as they travel over a turnout, but perhaps that has more to do with the track than the suspension.

 

Yes, a strong childhood memory for me are the mt54's at full sing on the Yokusuka Line 113's between Totsuka and Ofuna.  As for the suspension, perhaps it's due to the coil spring system?(コイルばね)  Certainly they give a more lively ride than the aircushion types, though personally the DT21 bogies are quintessentially and properly JNR for me (ザ・国鉄　ですよね~).

 

[miyakoji]

Bikkuri, you may be interested to know that there's a whole wikipedia page on the DT21: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/DT21

[bikkuri bahn]

Bikkuri, you may be interested to know that there's a whole wikipedia page on the DT21: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/DT21

Thanks, yes, some nice info there. If a model company would ever release a large scale model (say 1/5 or 1/8 scale) of a DT21 complete with traction motor detail and working suspension, I would buy it in an instant.

[miyakoji]

I'd want it with working suspension and working traction motor. I don't know what I'd do with it, but I'd figure something out