JR East rolling stock announcements

[Ochanomizu]

Miyakoji-san,

 

The 787系 was manufactured by Hitachi and Kinki Sharyo.  I wonder if the corrosion problem is more common in cars of a particular manufacturer.  But I cannot find any commentary.

 

Also, 787系 was not built of stainless steel.  However, some claim that roof parts are stainless.

[ToniBabelony]

Bye bye Saikyō line 205 Series.

http://railf.jp/news/2013/07/30/160000.html

 

Bye bye 183 Series.

http://railf.jp/news/2013/07/31/140000.html

 

All empty trains to Nagano have a one-way trip...

[Densha]

:( Will there be any 183 and 205 series left after the one-way trip?

[ToniBabelony]

:( Will there be any 183 and 205 series left after the one-way trip?

 

The 205s will be lingering around a bit longer I think, though the Nambu and Yokohama line are seeing replacements coming soon.

 

The last lines to have 205 running in the Metropolitan area will be the Musashino and Keiyō lines (these lines always end up having the older rolling stock somehow)... Also, don't forget the Sagami, Tsurumi and Nambu-branch lines with their 205 rebuilds! These are in Kanagawa though.

 

Yes, 205s with the old style front will get harder and harder to find soon! Luckily I can still enjoy the 205s on the Yokohama line until somewhere next year :P

[Densha]

I noticed a while back JR West also has some 205's in service with the old style front that were actually refurbished a while back, but these are not in JR East's are though. The newest units should be maximum 22 years old now, but that probably includes the ones with newer fronts which I almost see as a different series. Anyone knows when the last old style front 205 was built?

I don't know why, but I really like the older front of the 205~

[bronzeonion]

Bye bye Saikyō line 205 Series.

http://railf.jp/news/2013/07/30/160000.html

 

Bye bye 183 Series.

http://railf.jp/news/2013/07/31/140000.html

 

All empty trains to Nagano have a one-way trip...

 

They're scrapping OM103?!! Nooo

[200系]

In related news, though concerning the Shinkansen...

 

the first of the E4系 formations (formation P2, delivered in 1997) was scrapped this month at Niigata Shinkansen center:

 

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/akihito3521/25207176.html

 

meanwhile, the scrapping of end of life E3系0番台 formations continues (warning, unpleasant images):

 

http://noriyuki.cocolog-nifty.com/s/2013/07/731-dc4d.html

 

Thus far, formations R5, R6 and R7 have been scrapped, while R17 is being scrapped as we speak. Formation R1, retired on the 20th of July, is waiting for the axe as well.

 

Formation R1 was originally built as the E3系 prototype, and was delivered on the 28th of March 1995, as formation S8 (the S formations are used for test trains/prototypes by JR East, the very first 200系 test trains where S1 and S2 for example,while S6 and S7 where used for the E2系), While R5~R7 where part of the first production batch, delivered in October 1996. R17 is the youngest of the batch, being delivered in 1998 as the last of the original order (A new batch, R18~R26 was delivered from 2002 onwards). All of those formations, where extended to 6 car formations in 1998 (originally 5 cars), minus R17 which was delivered as a 6 car formation.

Edited August 1, 2013 by 200系

[Guest keio6000]

Can somebody better explain why these trains are scrapped?

 

Energy costs must be a major factor in the decision to scrap older, heavier stock, but is there really that much benefit in scrapping as opposed to refurbishing E2 sets?  The life-limited parts are mostly underside things that can be replaced and upgraded, no?

How much of this is legitimate business concern in a western sense and how much of this is a glorified continued exmployment plan?

 

Finally, are these trains really so worn out that they are of no use to sell?  Be it the E2 to Taiwan/China or the commuter stock to Indonesia or other developing systems?  Not to overglorify, but how many of us wouldnt prefer a good used japanese car to, say, a new Skoda, Kia, or Opel?

[Sacto1985]

Here's why those older E3 and E4 trainsets are scrapped: they've run so much at over 200 km/h speeds that the physical wear and tear would make them not financially viable to refurbish them. That's why the 400 Series and the E1 Series were all scrapped. Indeed, I thought it was really unusual for JR East to refurbish JNR 200 Series trainsets instead of scrapping them and buying more E2 trainsets instead. I believe some of the oldest E2 trainsets--those originally built for the Nagano Shinkansen service in 1997-1998--are approaching the point of retirement, too.

[Ochanomizu]

Hello keio6000,

 

Please allow me to answer your question.

 

Japanese trains are designed with an operational life, usually 20 years.  They are designed to be recycled after this time as nothing has been designed to last longer than this.  There is usually a major refit designed into the train, scheduled to take place at 10 years.  At this point, many wearing parts and electrical systems will be upgraded.  These parts were designed to be easily replaced.

 

Extensive research has taken place over the years.  This is the most economical way to produce trains in Japan. 

 

I should point out that the trains are not scrapped.  They are recycled.  This has been a design consideration which began with the aluminium Tokyo Metro rolling stock of the 1960's.  I'm not 100% sure but I think it might have started with the 5000 series.  As Japan is not rich in raw materials the idea quickly escalated and by early 1980's standards were in place setting recycling targets, not just for trains, but for many products.  I even remember having to separate the household waste into various categories for recycling in the 1980's.

 

The deconstruction of the E2 is done by heavy machinery.  Materials are sorted and graded to be reused.  There are significant environmental benefits to such a process.

 

Meanwhile, while Mr Sacto pointed out that the E2's are due for retirement, I would like to point out that the beautiful E351 Super Azusa is now 20 years old.  It will also be replaced in the near future. 

[miyakoji]

Meanwhile, while Mr Sacto pointed out that the E2's are due for retirement, I would like to point out that the beautiful E351 Super Azusa is now 20 years old.  It will also be replaced in the near future. 

 

Ochanomizu, has there been any news recently about the E351's replacement?  We had a thread about this:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6481-successor-to-jr-east-e351-super-azusa/

 

I agree it's a good looking train.

[Ochanomizu]

Miyakoji-san,

 

So sorry.  I have not heard.  I shall investigate ... ;)

[Sacto1985]

I believe that Shinkansen trainsets are usually retired after about 15 years of use, more or less. That's why no 400 Series trainsets now exist, the E1's are now being scrapped, and the older E3's that started on the Yamagata Shinkansen service are now being scrapped.

 

Here's the question though: what will replace the E4's when they are retired by 2016? Will it be E2's that are displaced off the Tohoku Shinkansen line as E5 trainsets replace them?

[Densha]

But the big question that Sacto said is WHY were 200 series refurbished and kept in service although they were very old.

[Guest ___]

I would assume that the 0-series, 100-series and 200-series are self-rerived and engineered at a point where the service life of them was meant to excede 20 years or that there was no life-cycle process in place during the intial engineering and design cycle.

[TestudoToTetsudo]

When on Hyperdia today I noticed that some Hayate Shinkansen are selling GranClass now, which means they must be running with E5 sets on a regular schedule in addition to the Hayabusa.

 

Is the plan to convert all Hayate service to E5s, and if so, has JR East announced what the timeline for that will be?  What's the plan for the E2 sets they replace?

 

Thanks!

[miyakoji]

I'm not sure what the plan is, but any E2s rotated out of service will probably become paperclips, as shown in the links in 200系's post.

[Densha]

The way you worded that hurts...

[Sacto1985]

When on Hyperdia today I noticed that some Hayate Shinkansen are selling GranClass now, which means they must be running with E5 sets on a regular schedule in addition to the Hayabusa.

 

Is the plan to convert all Hayate service to E5s, and if so, has JR East announced what the timeline for that will be?  What's the plan for the E2 sets they replace?

 

Thanks!

 

Here's my three-day wild guess on what JR East will do with the E2 trainsets:

 

1. The original 8-car N series: to be overhauled starting this year. Will likely be still confined to Tokyo to Nagano Asama services.

 

2. The original 10-car J series: likely to be overhauled, my guess starting later this year. May eventually replace the E4's on the Jōetsu Shinkansen service on both Tanigawa and Toki services.

 

3. Later production 10-car J series: overhauled and confined to various shorter services on the Tōhoku Shinkansen line up to Morioka, just like what is being done with 500 Series and older 700 Series trainsets on the Tokaidō and San'yō Shinkansen lines.

 

In effect, don't expect any E2's north of Morioka fairly soon and west of Nagano once the Hokuriku and Hokkaido Shinkansen lines open.

[JR 500系]

When on Hyperdia today I noticed that some Hayate Shinkansen are selling GranClass now, which means they must be running with E5 sets on a regular schedule in addition to the Hayabusa.

 

Is the plan to convert all Hayate service to E5s, and if so, has JR East announced what the timeline for that will be?  What's the plan for the E2 sets they replace?

 

Thanks!

I would anticipate that too, as when i was there last year the E5 was just released and running only Hayabusa services. One month later, through the net i discovered the E5 are starting to run Hayate service. This year, the E2 was annouced to be running 'Yamabiko' services, in replacement of the E4; in view the E2 service speed us faster than that of the E4? 

 

This thread only places the E2 in serious danger of getting replaced and scrapped... I hurts me too since it was the shinkansen that i spent most time on last year during my trip... (Tokyo to Shin-Aomori and back)

[Densha]

I think the E4 is in more danger of getting scrapped as it will be replaced by the E2's which will subsequently be replaced by E5's. Not to forget the E3's that are currently being scrapped. :(

Anyone who knows how many E5's are ordered so far?

[Ochanomizu]

Ochanomizu, has there been any news recently about the E351's replacement?  We had a thread about this:

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/community/topic/6481-successor-to-jr-east-e351-super-azusa/

 

I agree it's a good looking train.

 

Hello Miyakoji-san,

 

The issue with replacing the E351 organization is complex.  There are problems with the tunnels in Chuotosen.  They are quite old and narrow.  There is talk of replacing that section of track.  There is also talk that E257 will be the best solution given the current economic climate.  That is all I know for now.

[Densha]

But the E257 would have to slow down in narrow curves no? That would make the trip longer opposed to keeping it at least as long as it was with previous stock.

[Sacto1985]

A big issue with replacing the Super Azusa trainsets is the fact they "tilt" into curves to allow faster transit times on the Chuo Main Line between Takao and Shiojiri Station. If the loading gauge is compatible, why don't they just replace the aging E351's with new-build 383 trainsets from Nippon Sharyo?

[ToniBabelony]

383s are of an old design (1994), so I don't think JR East will choose this design over a new one. Also, the copyrights have to be bought from JR Central as well. JR East and JR Central aren't the best of friends so to say...

 

The most recent developed tilting trains on narrow gauge are the Odakyū 50000 [VSE] (which probably is of no interest to JR East) and the Meitetsu 2000 [μSky], both private railway trains, which are probably too inferior for the long distances of JR East. The only candidates for the adaptation of recent technology are the E5 and E6 Shinkansen tilting systems.

 

All in all, an entirely new train needs to be developed, like is often the case. Quite a costly event...