My 1st Japanese EMU! KATO 787....any ideas on how to install a decoder?

[Sushi Train]

Who was that poster that said the recess was 9mm square?  Where is he? Doesn't he know how to use a ruler!  :'(

 

I stand humbled before the forum...corrected my post above!  :'(

 

don't worry, you wont need to stay humble for long, im sure I'll stuff something up real soon then it'll be my turn  ;D

[mrpig]

Everybody has a brain fart now and again, the best part is that as you get older they happen more often but you can't remember. :D

 

I just hope my pics are helpful.

[Sushi Train]

Brain fart! LOL! that made my day.

[quinntopia]

Update....I've got the decoder installed in the motor car!  Yeah!  I ordered the decoders on Tuesday April 7th from DCC train, and they arrived April 13th! 

 

It was a little dicey...I did not take photos of the process as I was more concerned with doing it right, and the distraction of taking pictures would almost guarantee that the soldering iron ends up touching something it shouldn't! (with my luck/'skill'!  ;))

 

The bad news is that my Trix Mobile Stations are being their typical, problematic selves....they refuse to read or write to the decoder  >:(.  I've tested it using the default CV of 3 and everything is working anywaye!

 

So, I've ordered a Sprog 2 and will install Decoder Pro and use the Mobile Stations for just operation from now on.

Then I'm off to install the cab car decoders and hopefully post back here or on my blog with some photos or video!

[CaptOblivious]

Aww, not even a photo of the completed install?

[Bernard]

Ditto, most of us take the photos after we do the installs. We just hold a stone cold soldering iron to give the effect that we're doing it right then and there. Go ahead and pose for the camera. ;D

[CaptOblivious]

Ditto, most of us take the photos after we do the installs. We just hold a stone cold soldering iron to give the effect that we're doing it right then and there. Go ahead and pose for the camera. ;D

 

What? That's not how I do it…I've got a fourth and fifth hand for that…

[quinntopia]

Okay...here's some photos.  First, let's get the 'bad news' out of the way.  Can you tell what the 2 things are that are wrong in the following picture?

Thing one is that the solder blob is WAY too much.  And....the solder connections are on the WRONG side of the electrical contacts!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

 

Okay, once I fixed that little mess, below is a photo of what I like to call 'decoder spaghetti' (or maybe, decoder ramen?).  As you can see, I did end up using the recess that the Captain pointed out above.  Next time I'll be sure to be a bit more conservative with my leads (actually, now that the fear of frying a decoder is past and I know where everything is supposed to be, I may go back and clean this up)

 

Well, for me, given my first install, it WORKS! So, its a bit like making sausage, but ultimately its the finished product that makes the difference (see next post).

 

And finally, here's a shot of the cab car decoder install with the LENZ101's which I attached to the ceiling with some double sided tape.

[quinntopia]

And here's the payoff....everything works!  Woohoo!  The only thing I need to do is change the addresses from the default once my Sprog arrives....

 

[alpineaustralia]

Excellent video matey. Especially the music.

[Sushi Train]

I know what I like.....and I like that video...and layout too  ;D

[Bernard]

Great Video & install. (I've got to get a video camera.)

Do you have an overview shot of your layout? It looks great!

[Sushi Train]

Great Video & install. (I've got to get a video camera.)

Do you have an overview shot of your layout? It looks great!

 

Bernard- go here to see his photos, theres some overview shots of his very nice layout.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/quinntopia2/NScaleLayoutGallery#5306628576703964162

[CaptOblivious]

Okay...here's some photos.  First, let's get the 'bad news' out of the way.  Can you tell what the 2 things are that are wrong in the following picture?

Thing one is that the solder blob is WAY too much.  And....the solder connections are on the WRONG side of the electrical contacts!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

 

 

I've done that! Soldered to the wrong side of the pickup rails, I mean. Only, since my soldering job was a bit better ;) I didn't notice it for a while! I couldn't figure out what was causing one of the trucks to bind…d'oh! It was the soldered-on wires interfering with the brass tabs on the trucks.

 

It shouldn't be too hard to get those wires trimmed to length, and managed neatly. Once you're done with that, this will be an outstanding first install!

 

One question: It is hard to see how much room is in the cab…I see you put the function decoder in the roof behind the cab. Is all the space in the cab taken up with the lightboard?

[Bernard]

Quinn - Beautiful layout and quite large. I see like myself, you enjoy collecting various trains that interest you. You have a nice roster. Thanks for the photos of the install and we all make mistakes. Like soldering to the brass pickups and then realizing that the wires are on the outside of the plastic seating strips. ::)

[quinntopia]

Thanks everyone for your kind complements! 

 

Also, you'll notice in the video that there are only 6 cars...what happened to the 7th?  Well during the install I had a 'coupler' incident so i had to swap the couplers from the 5th car for the motor car.  Now I'm on a quest to find a replacement  ;)

 

The music in the video is from a group (person? I don't really know) called "Atlas Plug", the song is 'Halfway Till Bliss' from their '2 Days or Die' album.  There's probably one or two other songs on the album that are almost as good (IMO).

 

Capt:  The LENZ decoders are just too big to sit forward of the passenger area in the cab.  Between the slope of the cab and the lightboard, there's not much room.  The good thing is that the two wires are easy to hide and the ceiling area is 'deep enough' to hide the decoder (even with the thick double sided tape).  My motor car will need some work however! 

 

Bernard: Yes, definitely a collector of what interests me!  Glad to see I'm not the only 'heretic' out there! I actually took some photos of the Relay next to my TEE (posted on my blog), as even though they are separated by at least a continent and several decades, the similarities and relationship of the Dutch/Swiss TEE set and the Tsubame both speak to a common parent in the design of passenger trains.

[Bernard]

Quinn - Check Hobby Search for couplers:

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/list/256/0/2

 

When I first ordered from them that was I loaded up on, couplers.

[Martijn Meerts]

Quinn, once you get the hang of soldering small things and get a good soldering iron/station, you can consider desoldering the wires from the decoder, then shortening them on that end, and resolder them. It's much easier to cut the wires to the correct length on the decoder side, which means cleaner installs.

 

It does require a fairly steady hand and decent soldering iron/station though, I've destroyed 2 or 3 decoders trying to solder wires on them because of a soldering iron that had a tip which didn't heat up evenly...

[mrpig]

Great job Quinn, now that you have the first one done the rest are fairly easy. It's really just a puzzle to solve working out how to best conceal the decoder. I have never even thought of sticking the decoder to the ceiling. The LF101XF certainly makes life easier only needing the 2 wires, if only they would shrink them down a bit.  Love the video too

[CaptOblivious]

Great job Quinn, now that you have the first one done the rest are fairly easy. It's really just a puzzle to solve working out how to best conceal the decoder. I have never even thought of sticking the decoder to the ceiling. The LF101XF certainly makes life easier only needing the 2 wires, if only they would shrink them down a bit.  Love the video too

 

The ceiling is a great place to hide a decoder, but there are two general problems with the method: 1) You have to keep the leads long enough that you can remove the shell, which means you have to hide them too :D 2) If you want to install interior lights, the decoder is going to get in the way.

 

1) is not really a big deal, but since I intend on installing interior lights into all my passenger stock, 2) is a bit tricky for me…which was why I asked Quinn about room in the cab compartment. Not that I own, or will own, this set, but I was just mostly curious, because I'm sure it's very similar to other Kato releases I have my eye on.

[quinntopia]

I asked Quinn about room in the cab compartment

 

Here's a photo from the opposite angle, gives a little better perspective on the how much space is available (or not) in the cab area.

 

 

I'm not sure if I'm going to with interior lights... someday I'm sure! Their may be enough room for the lights even with the decoder on the ceiling, if not, I can shorten the lights or... mount it on the seats  :-[

 

Need to cool it on the spending for a while (except for the couplers....that's like critical!).

[ty2nd]

I just bought the same train. It really is just awesome. What DCC decoder did you use to change it from DC to DCC?

[gavino200]

On 2/8/2022 at 3:11 PM, ty2nd said:

I just bought the same train. It really is just awesome. What DCC decoder did you use to change it from DC to DCC?

 

The OPs of this thread have mostly moved on. We have a database of Kato DCC installs here maintained by it's creator, @EdF According to that, the Kato 787 is a "solder all" all installation. That means that the Kato EM13 drop-in decoder doesn't fit, and there is no lightboard-replacement decoder made for it. You need to buy a small wired decoder such as a LokPilot 5 Micro DCC, and solder it in.

 

 In the thread above it looks like Quinn used a LENZ101. He seemed happy with his result but gave the folloing feedback on his decoder choice.

 

 

On 4/19/2009 at 10:19 PM, quinntopia said:

Capt:  The LENZ decoders are just too big to sit forward of the passenger area in the cab.  Between the slope of the cab and the lightboard, there's not much room.  The good thing is that the two wires are easy to hide and the ceiling area is 'deep enough' to hide the decoder (even with the thick double sided tape).  My motor car will need some work however!

 

[chadbag]

Zimo and ESU make readily available (US) nano sized decoders.   
 

a true bipolar decoder for cab lights makes it easier (like the NGDCC ones) as you just solder it in. No flipping or other changes.  There are probably others.  NGDCC are from a small guy in Japan but easy to order.  

[gavino200]

2 hours ago, chadbag said:

Zimo and ESU make readily available (US) nano sized decoders.    

 

I know you just mean "really small" by nano. I recently had a fair bit of confusion trying to find out if ESU actually made a decoder smaller than the LokPilot V5 micro. They did market a decoder in a previous generation under the name LokPilot nano. But it's not smaller than the V5 micro, and they seem to have stopped using the term "nano" for the V5 generation. LokPilot "nanos" on the market are older versions, and are not smaller than the micro. For ESU, micro is as nano as it gets.

Edited February 27, 2022 by gavino200