out of control

[lurkingknight]

Hey guys, I used to do HO when I was a kid but I don't think that counts anymore lol I quit when I realized I had no money to take it further than piecing together bits on the floor.

 

So now as an adult with way too many hobbies and not enough money, I picked up a fulllength kato yamanote line train after a recent trip to japan as a souvenir and was going to just display it on a straight strip of track... but like all hobby things, you don't buy a sports car to look at it in a parking lot. I have an insatiable itch to see it run, it's the train otaku in me that's always been there, and I have an addiction of going all out when I do something.

 

Problem is... long train is LONG at 148cm, which means that any platform station kit I get needs to be extended, and any basic track set would look odd because the train will fill the entire straight and curve at both ends.

 

I'm looking at building a layout eventually, how big or how detailed, I'm not sure yet. I like the availability of parts from the kato unitrack system. 

 

Is there a design software out there that is able to design using only unitrack pieces including kit numbers and part numbers that I can design a layout with double track  loops?

 

Since yamanote is a commuter line in either direction, I'd like to capture an element of this, just as I would like to have an elevated platform... and since you can't have a commuter line with just 1 station, I want a groundl evel platfrom as well and have dual track pulling into both stations, where somewhere outside in the line, I will split the track and find a way to loop the single track back into the double line so it will run the other way, so it's continuous.

 

For now I'm only planning to run 1 train... ... but keihan-tohoku runs side by side with yamanote for a section of the network, also the idea of having a subway under the entire layout appeals to me so I'll probably keep expansion in mind,

 

Anyways, design software is the most important first step I think. I'd like to design the entire layout so it can be expanded in stages as money comes available for track kits. I'm not terribly concerned with building the city around the line at this point, the primary goal is to see the whole thing run.

[cteno4]

lurkingknight,

 

ha same way i started back into japanese trains with buying what was going to be a display old aurora 200 set years ago cheap on ebay to remind me of my first trip to japan years before (i was at the time getting back into us freight). careful, theres over 100 trains now here...

 

most of the rail software design packages have a full set of kato n gauge track section to play with and its a great way to fiddle with a lot of ideas fast. are you mac or pc? on the mac there is railmodeler for around $30. works well and pretty good. there is xtrakcad which is free and pc based, but you can install it to work on the mac with x11 windows system (also free). its a powerful program but not a great intuitive interface, but once you use it a while its not so bad. just take notes as if you walk away from it for a week you will forget just enough to be frustrated for a while!

 

there are other pc software packages out there like Anyrail or really powerful (and more expensive) ones like 3rd Plan It, but for what you are doing i think they are overkill. 

 

I would take a look at xtrakcad, free and worth poking at. there have been a few discussions on the list here about various software packages out there.

 

starting with a station sounds like a good idea. maybe a sectional layout that you can store on a bookshelf when not in use to have on display? dont know what your space restrictions are. this way you could also work in phases and not have to buy a lot right away. 

 

keep us posted on the progress, always interesting to see folks pathways and results!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

Kato has double track sections as well as track packs like the V11 which can get you started or single track starter sets like the M1 or M2.  For a second train you might want to look at the E259 NEX which also runs along the Yamanote line in places.

[lurkingknight]

I'm on pc. cheap as free sounds good for now, I'll have a look into it.

 

I have a whole basement I can work in, I just need to clear space or a sun room so space is not a huge concern, it's the cost of setting up the tabletop in a way that it's easy to work with. Given the length of the train at 1.5m I'm thinking to be reasonably in proportion, I would need a reasonable amount of space on either side of a station, are there any design rules or strategies for making layouts visually appealing?

 

One of the other things I need to keep in mind is that if this thing becomes permanent, I need to design it in a way that it can be portable in case I move.

 

I was looking at all the v11+ sets for double rail and they will most likely fit my need, I'm just not sure about creating inclines or how these expansion sets fit together with each other in terms of the concrete slab vs the more standard looking gravel stuff. The same goes with extending station platforms and the elevated viaduct station in order to comfortably accommodate 1.5m of train.

 

The world is a candy store right now and my wallet is pretty empty lol.

[cteno4]

Check out xtrakcad then, does a good job and the price is right! just take notes as you go along on how to do basic stuff.

 

layouts are really personal on how you want to do them. some like deep layouts, others very narrow. some like them high at eye level to get a more realistic angle of view than from above. stations are great scenes as there are lots of things going on and convergence of roads, rails, street cars, busses, taxis, shipping, etc. they are also long eye catching structures. japanese urban scenes are very very dense with buildings and details usually, but many stations have some sort of little plaza area, a wide street, and parking/pickup areas that gives you a reason to have an open area so the station is not swallowed and hidden.

 

yes its best to make sure you can pull any layout apart to move it! think sectional of having a general plan then break it into convenient sections to build it all on so it can come apart easily. also makes it easier if you want to phase your construction or enlarge later by inserting new sections between existing ones. also think if you ever would like to take the layout to a show or public display! our club has a great time doing this with the club sectional layout (http://www.japanrailmodelers.org).

 

a few cheap support systems are using those cheap plastic saw horses, you can get them very cheap at times.

 

gravel vs concrete slab is tough as both are used in all sorts of situations in japan, but that makes it a bit easier to do what you find pleasing. lots of non shinkansen elevated track is slab, but there is also gravel. the sets give you a little savings on cost but only if you use all the track. unfortunately unitrak on ebay usually goes pretty high as it holds up well, so rarely bargains there and also may not be the right combo of pieces you need.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[lurkingknight]

also it's hard to visualize what all the track pieces are for so I may have to bite the bullet and just buy a few kits to get my hands on some of these bits to get a better understanding on how to design it. If I were doing a simple flat layout I think the software would be pretty straight forward, but my current plan is to have a section of elevated track so without handling at least some of the basic pieces involved with doing that, conceptualizing it is going to be challenging.

[lurkingknight]

quick question, does the power pack from the japanese track kit work on the north american power grid? Most modern electronics these days seem to have the dual voltage capability, I brought both my camera and laptop charger from canada to use in japan and they switched voltage just fine.

[bill937ca]

quick question, does the power pack from the japanese track kit work on the north american power grid? Most modern electronics these days seem to have the dual voltage capability, I brought both my camera and laptop charger from canada to use in japan and they switched voltage just fine.

 

 

You can get a Kato 22-014 power pack that is marketed for the North American market.  Tomix power packs are usually used with a step-down converter just to be safe.  Tomix does not mark its power packs in North America.

[lurkingknight]

I'll have a close look at the markings when the m2 kit arrives end of month... I have a feeling they're not going to go through the hassle of producing separate lines of 100 and 240v packs... but then again.. I just checked my piano ac adapter and it's marked 120~ while my laptop adapter is marked 100-240~ Otherwise I'll just go out to radioshack and get the down converter, no biggie.

[cteno4]

Kato doesn't do a universal 100-220v wall wart unfortunately. From Japan you will fer a 100v most likely. I think the 110v is Katousa, and then a 220v in Europe.

 

Unfortunately the kato power pack needs a 15v AC input power, and that is a really strange beastie.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited May 18, 2013 by cteno4

[Mudkip Orange]

Add another voice for XtrakCad. I use it almost exclusively, despite having access to much more powerful programs like AutoCAD and Microstation. There are a couple Kato pieces that are missing (the big radius 480/447 corners) but you can rough them in with flex track.

[KenS]

Kato has double track sections as well as track packs like the V11 which can get you started or single track starter sets like the M1 or M2.  For a second train you might want to look at the E259 NEX which also runs along the Yamanote line in places.

 

I think the E259 (and many others) use the Yamanote Freight Line, a set of double tracks that parallel the western arc of the Yamanote Line.  The Yamanote line runs more like a subway, with a closed circuit and identical trains running in opposite directions on parallel tracks on a short (as low as a couple of minutes) headway.

 

That said, you can always use artistic license to pretend one track is the Yamanote line, and the other is the Yamanote Freight Line.  I started with a Yamanote E231 and the older version of the NEX (the 253) on a double-track loop of Kato track.

[Ochanomizu]

I'll have a close look at the markings when the m2 kit arrives end of month... I have a feeling they're not going to go through the hassle of producing separate lines of 100 and 240v packs... but then again.. I just checked my piano ac adapter and it's marked 120~ while my laptop adapter is marked 100-240~ Otherwise I'll just go out to radioshack and get the down converter, no biggie.

 

The Tomix product includes universal power.  It will work fine in USA, UK, Singapore, Philippines, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

 

For UK, Australia and New Zealand require plug adaptor only.

 

No transformer required.

[macdon]

The Tomix product includes universal power.  It will work fine in USA, UK, Singapore, Philippines, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

 

For UK, Australia and New Zealand require plug adaptor only.

 

No transformer required.

 

Does anyone have the model number for this?

 

Mardon

[JR 500系]

Does anyone have the model number for this?

 

Mardon

Hi Mardon:

 

It's Tomix TCS Power Unit N600 number 5507 : http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160414

 

Yes and like Ochanomizu mentioned, it works from 110-240V. I have 2 controllers and my country uses 240V, so no worries.

 

For the Kato, i think more often than not it's the 110-120V type. I have 2 Kato controllers, and i needed 2 step down to bring down the voltage...

[E6系]

Hello JR500 のぞみ

 

So sorry, the power unit is actually 100-240V AC.  You are correct with all other aspect.

 

All Tomix controller that ship with transformer use universal product, including: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10079356

[Martijn Meerts]

My best advice is to start building something as fast as possible, if not you're likely going to end up collecting trains and never running them.. It's an all too common scenario on the forum ;)

[macdon]

Hi Mardon:

 

It's Tomix TCS Power Unit N600 number 5507 : http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160414

 

Yes and like Ochanomizu mentioned, it works from 110-240V. I have 2 controllers and my country uses 240V, so no worries.

 

For the Kato, i think more often than not it's the 110-120V type. I have 2 Kato controllers, and i needed 2 step down to bring down the voltage...

 

Thanks JR!

 

Yup, I have the Kato as well on a step down transfo as we are also 220-240v.

It would be a relief not having a step down anymore, but I do have to weigh things as I have a surplus of kato tracks and kato turnout controls as well.

 

Mardon

[lurkingknight]

I'll look into it further, there's a used NA controller on I've got my eye on as well. plaza japan advertizes the KATO J controllers as compatible with the north american power grid, I'll have to investigate further into that.

Edited May 23, 2013 by lurkingknight

[cteno4]

I think plazajapan is just selling the NA adapter version as his ebay market is big in NA. AFAIK kato has been having the three different AC adapters and has not gone to a universal yet. would be simpler!

 

we have a brit in the club with two European 220v kato adapters he uses with a stepup transformer from the us 110v.

 

jeff

[lurkingknight]

hmm....this is going to escalate very quickly.

 

the turnout section is still about 30cm short to comfortably park a train... and it's already giving me an idea of how long a platform is going to be to accommodate this.

 

 

This is going to be expensive... going to need a couple tables at least... cause this thing don't fit on 1 table. Space I have... I have half a basement... tools I don't have... and I'll probably have to design a table that can be modular and be transportable so I can get the layout out of the basement. Right now I can lay inside the loop with my arms out in front of me and just barely not be able to touch the track on either end.

 

Looking at this and looking sumida crossing... starts to give me just an idea of how huge that layout is.

[bill937ca]

Don't worry you're not the only one feeling the pinch from model trains.      Have you thought about the Kato concrete tie double track with super elevated curves 20-183, 20-184, 20-004?

[lurkingknight]

you can't have a commuter line with just 1 track :P

 

I'd like to do a double track layout, I was thinking 2 platforms in your typical perpendicular transfer station, one ground level and another crossing above it in a viaduct, though I'm not sure if the station pieces can be linked to do that. That would mean I have at the very least an L shaped layout... and also gives me an opportunity to do 3 stations stacked on top of each other going down to a subway line, but that's really getting ahead of myself. The next step I think is to plan a layout and budget the track kits I'll need, on top of figuring out how to do the tables...once I have a home for the basic above ground layout I can think about dressing it to an urban scene.

 

With the double track plan, I'm curious what I'll need to make it run, do I use 1 controller box and make it all 1 line, can I isolate it so it's 2 separate lines, do I go with dcc... I think if I aim as high as a double subway line embedded in the layout, I would have to plan for being able to manage multiple trains, so I have some reading and homework ahead of me. :P after the initial layout phase... we'll see how things look after that and if I can design it to go in phases.

[brill27mcb]

Swap the turnouts (or points) to the opposite ends of the siding, and make them the last piece of the 180-degree curves, so a train goes on the straight route of them to get to the outside parallel track. That will allow you to make a longerstation area without lenghening the oval -- maybe not 30 cm longer, but it will help.

 

See the Tomix example here:

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/track/Snippets.htm

 

See the top half of Figure 11 and compare the straight lengths of the parallel tracks with those in the top half of Figure 10.

 

Rich K.

[lurkingknight]

well this oval was set up to give me an idea of the proportions I'll need to work with. This is no means anything concrete. If I am going double track, the sections will be longer. The double pieces are bigger and need to be split wider (going to be using v15 pieces) to bring them wide enough to fit a center platform. So if I take the longest section of straight that allows the train to sit with minimal curve (and enough clearance) and add the platform splits that will give me the minimum length the layout will be... it will have to be longer than that as well to do what I'm planning.

 

just need to sit down and work it out on paper.