Freight Layout

[macdon]

Have you guys ever did a simple round layout - either as a test track, simple layout to run on or maybe just something small which you can move around the house if you wanted to?

 

I made the mistake of ordering some tighter curve tracks that eventually got replaced in the planning stage with a bit wider tracks when I was tweaking my proposed layout plan.

 

About half of my layout tracks have finally arrived and these tighter curve tracks were part of it and I thought I'd put them to good use by having a small round layout.

Hopefully I could learn some tricks in creating this small layout that could help when I create the bigger one. 

 

I did add 2 turnouts just to make it a bit more exciting and to atleast manipulate something on the layout.  

 

Mardon

 

 

Edited April 19, 2014 by macdon

[the_weird_one]

Looks like a good track for a tram layout.

 

I'm doing a little part of my larger layout as a test layout, mainly so that I have something I can learn on but also remain portable enough to hide out of the way when needed.

[macdon]

Thanks the_weird_one - its always good to have something portable. Can be used for shows or any group gatherings, etc. A test bed for trying out diorama skills too or any item you wanna test before placing them on your permanent layout.

[macdon]

I have a phobia with 100/110v stuff - ever since I was a kid, I had my fair share of accidentally plugging a 110v appliance to our 220v outlet and gets busted. 

My dad used to work for Philippines Airlines and he gets to travel around the world for work. A lot of times he brings back stuff from other countries that are 100v/110v. We do buy step down transformers and my mom places a masking tape tag near the end of the plug that reads "110v" in big bold fonts. 

These plugs do sometimes get separated from their transformers due to sweeping/cleaning and maids not knowing much gets to plug it in a regular outlet. We come in, use the item and puff ........... another trip to the service guys.

 

For decades now, most appliances are 'autovolt' so they would work with either 100-110v to 220-240. Nowadays, we rarely have 110v appliances and I wouldnt mind paying just a bit more just to have a 220v option.  Infact, I hardly ever buy a step down transformer anymore.

For the Kato power pack, it was harder to find a DC 15v wall wart as most are AC 12v adapters. I found a few, but didnt like the quality of the china made DC wall warts. They come with adjustable voltage, adjustable amps, adjustable AC or DC and even adjustable plug polarity - using a small jeweler's screwdriver. I just didnt trust the quality or kind of filters integrated in the sub $15 china wall wart, so I thought it best to just use the Kato 100v wall wart and just buy a step down transformer.

 

I rigged both in a piece of wood and bolted a fiberglass 'L' bracket to the wall wart - no accidental detachments there!

 

 

 

 

P.S. - you guys ever noticed the Kato powerpack - its so lightweight and toy-like plastic feeling. Made in China?

The wall wart is about twice heavier than the power pack itself. Looks cheesy.

The older Kato controller seems more robust, heavier and has a metal casing. 

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

Mardon,

 

Nice work. This should do you great.

 

The controller is light but works great and feels good when using. Attach it to a control pane or bard and things will fell sturdier.

 

Hope you are having fun!

 

Jeff

Edited April 4, 2013 by cteno4

[Mudkip Orange]

P.S. - you guys ever noticed the Kato powerpack - its so lightweight and toy-like plastic feeling. Made in China?

 

 

It's a simpler mechanism. Your typical North American-spec DC powerpack outputs a square wave of varying pulse width. This is supposed to allow trains to run smoothly at low speeds. However when used with the small motors in some Japanese trains it can cause overheating... no bueno. The Kato and Tomix powerpacks by contrast use a potentiometer, basically the same mechanism as you'd find in a good stereo receiver. Those just don't weigh a lot. Also, Kato's basic powerpack doesn't have any kind smooth auto-reverse circuitry. Flip the direction switch while the train is running at speed and you're looking at full throttle to full-throttle. I know Tomix offers smooth transitions on some of their higher-end packs, wouldn't be surprised if the same is true of Kato.

 

A lot of powerpacks also have the transformer within the unit, but Kato sells theirs in multiple markets:

 

Kato 22-012 is Japanese spec with a 100V "wall wart" transformer.

Kato 22-014 is US spec with a chunkier 110-120V transformer that sits on the floor.

Kato 22-015 is UK spec with a BS 1363 plug and a 230V transformer.

 

Once you take out the transformer, the gentle auto-reverse, and the motor-killing square wave circuitry, there's just not a lot of weight left.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Mudkip Orange

[macdon]

Jeff and Mudkip - thanks for the response guys! Its good to know that the Kato power pack is up to the task. When I saw the kind of plastic with some areas that are smooth and some not so, it kinda reminded me of those China knock-off products. Being lightweight didnt help any of my doubts either, but I do appreciate your voice of confidence regarding the power pack :) 

 

I went ahead in making a 30" x 40" board for the round layout. 1/2" thick plywood and supported behind with 1" x 1" hardwood framing and cross braces.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, after about $1000 spent on this hobby - I could now finally run trains!!! Lol! :) 

 

I assembled my round layout plan on top of the board, connected the power supply and watched the first few steps of my new EF210 locomotive!

I even tried running 2 trains!! :love10:  Though it seems the used DF 200 locomotive was a bit faster than the new EF210 'coz in about a minute it catches up! Lol!

 

 

 

 

 

 

A few observations:

 

1. The power feeder plugs only one way to the track and moving forward is by going counter clockwise.

My proposed bigger layout plan was created for clockwise running - so I was thinking if I should splice the wires and connect bullet connectors so I could choose any polarity to either run clockwise or counter clockwise?

 

2. My EF210 and DF200 has the same looking front as the rear - if I dont splice the feeder wire(s), could I run the trains always using reverse for a clockwise direction? Would it burn out the motor running in reverse?

 

3. I need to add a longer wire for the turnout thats farthest from the power pack - it its close (or is that open?), the train stops when it crosses over the turnout. However, once pushed to the other direction - the train passes normally. 

I think those old turnouts that I got from my friend are insulated? 

I compared the newer kato turnouts in blister packs and they seem not insulated. 

I got some #6 turnouts (20-202 and 20-203) from a friend - they're boxed not unlike the blister pack of today. In fact, he has a lot of Kato tracks that are boxed but with the same item number compared to the blister pack tracks of today. I just dont have any info if those older boxed unitracks are constructed the same as the now unitracks in blister packs. The turnouts seems different as the unijoiner is black in color than the grey color that comes in the blister pack.

 

Mardon

[Mudkip Orange]

A few observations:

 

1. The power feeder plugs only one way to the track and moving forward is by going counter clockwise.

My proposed bigger layout plan was created for clockwise running - so I was thinking if I should splice the wires and connect bullet connectors so I could choose any polarity to either run clockwise or counter clockwise?

 

2. My EF210 and DF200 has the same looking front as the rear - if I dont splice the feeder wire(s), could I run the trains always using reverse for a clockwise direction? Would it burn out the motor running in reverse?

 

3. I need to add a longer wire for the turnout thats farthest from the power pack - it its close (or is that open?), the train stops when it crosses over the turnout. However, once pushed to the other direction - the train passes normally. 

I think those old turnouts that I got from my friend are insulated? 

I compared the newer kato turnouts in blister packs and they seem not insulated. 

I got some #6 turnouts (20-202 and 20-203) from a friend - they're boxed not unlike the blister pack of today. In fact, he has a lot of Kato tracks that are boxed but with the same item number compared to the blister pack tracks of today. I just dont have any info if those older boxed unitracks are constructed the same as the now unitracks in blister packs. The turnouts seems different as the unijoiner is black in color than the grey color that comes in the blister pack.

 

Mardon

 

To answer your questions,

 

(1) If you turn the power feeder 180 degrees, it will reverse the polarity. No need to splice wires.

 

(2) The motor will last just as long running in reverse as in forwards. In fact most Japanese trains don't have a defined "front" since the motor is in one of the middle cars.

 

(3) Kato switched the cosmetics of Unitrack some time ago, they went from having individual ballast that was glued to the plastic base to having a one-piece molded plastic. When that change was made the standard unijoiner color was switched from dark gray to light gray. However the power routing functions of the turnouts have not changed.

 

The way a Kato turnout works is this, the outside rails of the points are always the same, but the inside rails are both set to whatever way the switch is set. In the setup you have now, if one switch is set to diverge/curve and the other switch is set to straight, that is creating a short in the track circuit.

 

If you don't want to always have to throw both switches at the same time, you can use insulated unijoiners at the points of one of the two turnouts. This will prevent a short from happening.

[macdon]

Thanks for getting that cleared up, Mudkip - though, I didnt quite understood what you meant by turning the power feeder 180 degrees? Does that pertain to the one end for the power pack or the other end to feeder track?

 

Here's what I found out thou - on the power pack side, the feeder wire is terminated by a mini tamiya/kyosho plug that only connects one way. Inverting it 180 degrees will not allow them to mate.

On the other end of the feeder wire is a small grey colored plug that connects to the track itself and the end is sorta shaped like a trapezoid (?) with one end longer and the other shorter - so just like with the power pack side, this could only be connected one way.

However, this small grey plug that holds the 2 feeder wires could actually be opened up and you could swap the positions of 2 wires - so voila, instant reversal without cutting.

 

Is that what you meant?

 

Nonetheless, without you mentioning the plug reversal - I would've probably just cut the wires and solder bullet connectors. So you saved me there, bud.

I got curious by what you said so I fidgeted that small plug till I accidentally found out that they do separate to easily swap the positions of the wires.

 

Its all good! :) 

 

Well, I got some foam and used white Elmers glue to adhere it to the wood board. I assembled the tracks back and the long decision of what scenery to put in this layout is ahead of me. :icon_scratch: 

 

But whatever it is, I hope its gonna be fun!!

 

 

Mardon

 

 

[bill937ca]

A few observations:

 

1. The power feeder plugs only one way to the track and moving forward is by going counter clockwise.

My proposed bigger layout plan was created for clockwise running - so I was thinking if I should splice the wires and connect bullet connectors so I could choose any polarity to either run clockwise or counter clockwise?

 

3. I need to add a longer wire for the turnout thats farthest from the power pack - it its close (or is that open?), the train stops when it crosses over the turnout. However, once pushed to the other direction - the train passes normally. 

 

1.The pointed silver handle on the left side ot the Kato power pack is the polarity control.  Top to bottom the settings are Forward, Brake (off), Reverse

 

3. The turnout extension cord is Kato 24-841. Lenght is 90cm  or 35".

 

Turnout control switch is Kato 24-840 and it clips on the side of the power pack.

Edited April 4, 2013 by bill937ca

[macdon]

1.The pointed silver handle on the left side ot the Kato power pack is the polarity control.  Top to bottom the settings are Forward, Brake (off), Reverse

 

3. The turnout extension cord is Kato 24-841. Lenght is 90cm  or 35".

 

Turnout control switch is Kato 24-840 and it clips on the side of the power pack.

 

Thats all correct Bill - thanks!

 

As for the turnout extension - I am thinking of making those instead. The black and red speaker wire in various gauges is very common here.

Ill probably just buy a lot of those mini tamiya/kyosho plugs and make as per need.

 

Mardon

[KenS]

The way a Kato turnout works is this, the outside rails of the points are always the same, but the inside rails are both set to whatever way the switch is set. In the setup you have now, if one switch is set to diverge/curve and the other switch is set to straight, that is creating a short in the track circuit.

 

If you don't want to always have to throw both switches at the same time, you can use insulated unijoiners at the points of one of the two turnouts. This will prevent a short from happening.

 

This isn't true of the #6 turnout used here, unless perhaps its a very old design. I tested Kato switches with a multimeter a few years ago (and re-checked one recently). The inside rail will either be the correct polarity, or dead. On the #4, you have the option of the same, or always having both rails correctly polarized. I have some diagrams of Kato switch polaritiy on my site.

 

Where you can get in trouble is running wrong way into a switch, because the frog will be the wrong polarity, causing a short through the wheels/wiring of the train to the same-side rail.

 

Kato has been changing their switches recently, but it's a cosmetic change: the frog (place where the rails cross) used to be a silver metal, but on newer ones (the Y, and some #4) it's now blackened metal that looks like plastic from a distance. But it's still conductive and wired the same way. I haven't seen this on a #6 yet.

 

The "test track" idea is a good one.  The outer loop of my layout is a simple oval, and I use it to break in new trains and do testing, speed calibration, and similar tasks.  I also typically have a small tight-radius test track oval set up on a coffee table or workbench for checking operation of single locomotives and motor cars. Even if you prefer "realistic" point to point operation, it's handy to have a loop for continuous running.

 

As Mudkip noted, the Kato power pack is very simple, but good. I was surprised the first time I picked one up, but most US packs put the transformer inside, and transformers are heavy (lots of iron core and copper windings). There isn't much circuitry inside (I haven't taken one apart, but there can't be anything in there other than a few chips) and the case is plastic, like a double-insulated power tool, rather than metal. It all makes for a very lightweight design.

 

However, it is providing a form of "pulsed" power, which helps to overcome starting friction and enhance low speed operation.  Kato has a reputation for "smooth" power, but I put a 'scope on mine (there are images on my power pack testing page).  The difference is that it's not as extreme as the other packs I've checked.

 

Regarding scenery, if you haven't already thought of it, make a small notch for each wire, and glue it in (white glue), so it will be below the level of scenery.  Also, get some paint (green if you're doing grass, gray for an urban scene), and paint the white foam and wires before putting down scenery of any kind.  White will always find a way to show through, even if you cover everything with scenery.

[macdon]

Regarding scenery, if you haven't already thought of it, make a small notch for each wire, and glue it in (white glue), so it will be below the level of scenery.  Also, get some paint (green if you're doing grass, gray for an urban scene), and paint the white foam and wires before putting down scenery of any kind.  White will always find a way to show through, even if you cover everything with scenery.

 

Hey Ken,

 

Havent done much im afraid - still deliberating with what scenery theme I would go for. One option that Im thinking of is getting the Fujimi Byodo-In temple and do the pond around it theme. Probably combining scenery features between the one in Kyoto and the replica in Oahu. 

All I know is that I need to incorporate both water and mountain (both are my waterloo) as my 3' x 7' bigger layout would be having those so need to practice on this round layout.

I was looking at the pond's shape thru google maps but cant seem to find more measurements on the Fujimi version except only the length info from HS.

Well, thats one option.

 

I will do more with the wiring once I nail down a scenery theme. So far, I just tacked them on the side so they wont interfere with the trains running. 

Some toys arrived by mail today, but they belong to the bigger layout. Though, Im itching to use a bridge in this round layout. Hmmm..... maybe thats why I want a water feature  :icon_scratch:

Im currently making a tunnel out of cardboard - im hoping it would progress into a mountain. Or shape of it........

Surely, my new scenery manual would help.

 

Mardon

 

[macdon]

Might as well make that tunnel into a mountain. 

I added a roadway thru the mountain and a shelf for a structure with its own pathway.

 

 

 

I then added some blocks of foam............

 

 

After a few passes with a Dremel sander bit...........

 

 

 

We will put fiberglass on monday.

If successful, only the fiberglass shell will be used for the layout.

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

Mardon,

 

Wow you are really rolling right along here! thats great stuff. love you you are building up the mountain. this little loop layout is a great start to learn and play fast. you are really a fast learner/doer! wonderful to watch!

 

fiberglass is a bit of overkill and messy, but if you want a serious shell that will give it to you! if you have not done fiberglass before i warn you that is really messy, smelly and itchy and messy to work with after wards cutting out bits and such. another option is to use plaster or plaster cloth. or if you want something tough and strong and a lot less messy than fiberglass you can use the modern cast mesh. this stuff uses a polymer instead of a plaster in the cloth. when it hardens its super light and strong. its not cheap, but ive heard of folks getting it from hospitals and such when it goes out of date (but many places now send stuff w/in going out of date to clinics and such to be used fast before official expire date). you can purchase it from supply houses but usually in larger qualntaties. its like the plaster cloth in a roll, just soak it in water then lay it out and let it harden.

 

with the kato wiring, if you are not scared of cutting a wire and soldering in an extension then you dont even need to worry about getting the mini tamya plugs (they can be hard to find and time to time they are not quite the same size as the kato and take some shaving to fit easily). if you get a couple of extra extensions you will have plenty. just get some heat shrink -- ebay is uber cheap for this (5m $1.42 shipped world wide free! decent stuff for this)

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=heat+shrink+2m&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0&_nkw=heat+shrink+5m&_sacat=0

 

you can use the shaft of the heating element on your soldering iron to shrink it (just try not to touch it) or get a cheap heat/hot air gun. you can find small inexpensive ones in craft stores as well as bigger ones in hardware (removing paint) or electronics stores but more expensive and a bit overkill.

 

this stuff is easy to wire up.

 

keep us posted!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[macdon]

Thanks for the support Jeff - appreciate it!

 

I actually didnt know how the mountain will turn out. At first, I was just planning on crumpled newspapers with masking tape but then I remembered we have these blocks of foam that we use for packing our fiberglass products so I thought I'd try it out. Lo and behold, it worked! Lol!

 

In the months that I've been in this hobby, I rarely see the word "fiberglass" used in model railroading - which is probably due to the reasons you stated above and as you say 'overkill'. However, I do own a fiberglass shop for the past 13yrs and have fiberglass workers who have been doing fiberglass for more than 30yrs or most of their life. They know nothing else. We have the chemicals,materials and tools for fiberglassing so its kinda second nature for us to use the stuff. Fact is, give them a $1 bag of plaster and I bet they wouldnt know what to do with it......Lol!

 

Here's something thou - I showed the mountain yesterday to my main worker and the first thing he asked is if I wanted it done in carbon fiber. I said, hell no! Thats overkill!" Lol! Could you imagine a shiny all black mountain? I could just picture my car club buddies staring at the black mountain more than the trains running .......... Lol!

 

You are right about the mini tamiya/kyosho plugs - I saw some in ebay selling in bulk 10-30 pairs from china. But the female plug has 2 'wings' that looks foreign to me, so I didnt get them for fear of incompatibility issues. 

Im afraid that my plan to make custom lengths for turnout extensions might not work afterall, so cutting and soldering stock Kato turnout extensions might be a better way to save some headaches down the road.

Yup, I have heat shrinks in various colors - left over from my rc car/boat hobbies. Im lazy so I use a lighter to shrink it than anything else .....Lol!

 

 

Mardon

[cteno4]

Marion

 

LOL! I see why the fiberglass! Great for you! I did a bunch when I was young on boats and making full sized model whales and porpoises and a few scooter items. Fun, but enough mess and dead brain cells for a lifetime now!

 

Carbon fiber, that would be cool!

 

Crumpled news paper is the great way to start to quickly get the ideas going then move into the foam then, nice 1 - 2 punch.

 

Great you are up on the wiring, you'll have no problems diving into this stuff. The ebay tamya I got we're fine on shape just tight. I bought one pair at the hobby shop as well and it was tight as well (different area) but I could make each work with some shaving. With the club layout we always had extra connectors as we were always combining lead and points into single connector.

 

Cheer

 

Jeff

Edited April 7, 2013 by cteno4

[macdon]

Roadways.......

 

What do you guys use for roads? 

Woodland scenics, Noch, Busch, .........sandpaper or just grey paint?

 

How wide? Would 2.5" be okay for a 2 lane road?

 

Mardon

[Mudkip Orange]

Color me impressed.

[JR 500系]

Nice Mardon!

 

Truely, your work looks professional! I like that tunnel with the complexity of the two passes! Very nice! I can't even construct a mountain with a simple pass!

 

For roads, i'm using conventional black paper attached onto foam base and drawn in using white markers. A cheap way to build roads and leave plently of room for creativity such as various degree curves, but when i added in the 'moving bus system' road parts, they look pretty wierd together...

 

Looking forward to viewing that mountain pass painted! Thanks for sharing! Great job!

[macdon]

Thanks Mudkip and JR!

 

Here's a few pics of the mountain being fiberglassed....................

 

 

 

 

When dry, Im hoping to remove all the foam and cardboard from underneath the hardened fiberglass shell. Leaving it on doesnt really matter, but the bare shell should give me a pretty big access at the back for maintenance, derailments, etc.

 

Mardon 

[macdon]

Here's the fiberglass mountain shell upside down.

There's still some bits of cardboard and foam left but doesnt matter..........

 

 

......and here's the mountain right side up and positioned on the layout.

 

 

 

Bus likes to try the new road  :)

 

 

Mardon

[KenS]

Interesting. I would never have thought of using fiberglass. But it seems like a good idea: lightweight and strong.

 

What are you going to use to attach scenic material to it?  I wouldn't think white glue, or any of the common derivatives, would adhere to it.

[macdon]

I'd probably paint the mountain and while the paint is still wet - add turf blend. For clumps and foliage, will try white glue first to see how strong/weak it adheres and experiment with other adhesives from there. Maybe contact cement will work as well.

 

Mardon

[macdon]

Added a backdrop to the layout...........

 

 

 

I got the backdrop file from here:

 

http://shiagenin.michikusa.jp/haikeigazou.html

 

Mardon

Edited April 9, 2013 by macdon