Thinking of doing a small project but need some help

[Keikyu]

Work has died down a bit so I find myself with alot of spare time. I decided my trains weren't that interesting on their own so I would like to make a small diorama. Keeps myself busy, and lets them look pretty.

 

Something like this:

 

 

Except more Japan themed.

 

Anyway, I have plans for it already, but I would like to have the track elevated. I know you can buy blocks of foam that are supposed to be used in gardens, and that foam is easy to mould and carve to my needs. However, I have heard it is prone to crumbling over time so obviously that is no good. Is there anything similar I could use in place of those blocks of foam?

 

Plus, I don't really want to shell out money for powered track that I won't end up using. Is there a particular place I could buy display track for dioramas? Or some kind of dead track that would be cheaper than working track?

 

Any help would be hugely appreciated.

[Densha]

What about flex track? If you're just doing a single line then you're best off getting a single flexible track, you can also make a slight curve in the track. I hear good things about Peco track, so maybe one of these two may be interesting:

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3315&P_ID=17118

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3310&CAT_ID=3315&P_ID=17117

But don't forget you have to either cut these off at the end of the module, or make a module of the length of the track. (which is fairly long)

[Keikyu]

That track could definitely come in handy, thanks.

[bill937ca]

You could use fun foam, its a craft material that is getting to be quite common. It comes in flat sheets or sometimes small blocks. I find it in dollar stores, discount stores and Walmart--but Walmart was the most expensive of all.

 

What about checking for second hand track at a train show or  LHS?

Edited April 1, 2013 by bill937ca

[Mudkip Orange]

I will second the Peco suggestion, although since you're running JDM trains you should probably stick to Code 80. Pizza cutters still prevail in the Land of the Rising Sun...

 

As far as foam goes, the common North American solution is to use sheets of rigid insulation foam intended for walls in houses. Knowing nothing of Aussie construction techniques, I did some Googling and couldn't find it on the website of Bunnings which appears to be y'alls version of Lowes. So your other option (slightly more expensive) would be Woodland Scenics inclines and risers:

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/subterrainsystem

[Keikyu]

I should specify I am from Australia. As far as I know we don't get Walmarts here, and I don't think we have that much train related or anything special like that unfortunately. I will have a look for blocks of that though.

 

Another forum had a person looking for something similar, and he was suggested to hunt down 'Extruded Polystyrene Foam' which I have never heard of, but looking it up makes it seem a bit promising to use.

[Densha]

You meant the diorama is to be static right? In that case it doesn't matter which code(=height) of track you go for, right???

 

I have no idea what "Extruded" could possibly mean but isn't polystyrene foam the white foam used for packing stuff that already falls apart when you touch it?

I don't have much knowledge about this all either, but I haven't ever heard of the foam you describe. I however have heard of foam used to isolate houses, it's a fairly solid material bought in large sheets that you have to cut and shave off. But I'm leaving it to the experts...

Edited April 1, 2013 by Densha

[cteno4]

Tomo

 

the extruded means the sheet is made by catalyzing the polystyrene and forcing it out thru a form to create the sheet. like the old playdough machines where you squeezed the dough out thru the various shaped holes to create long bits with the cross section of the hole shape. this is how a lot of plastic stuff like pipes and sheets are created by extruding them. the other way is by casting.

 

the extruded polystyrene foam usually comes in a sheet 1-2" thick thats made in large sheets for insulation purposes. its pretty dense foam and does not crumble with age. you can carve it with files, hot knives, sand paper, etc. gets a little messy (foam bits get statically charged) but the vacuum is your friend here! i know its available in some places in australia. its usually at builder supply shops, but usually sold in 4'x8' sheets! if its not a material used in your area may be really hard to come by. the rarer places that use it, even in really warm weather areas, is refrigeration companies where they use it to insulate walk in friges and freezers. you might call some of those, they may have a bunch of small scraps you could grab.

 

some folks use the beaded polystyrene foam that comes as packing blocks in packing materials. this stuff is harder to shape than the extruded polystyrene, but it works fine for doing little bits like you want. its really messy to form with the beads getting statically charged but again the vacuum works well to clean up. this stuff is commonly called EPS Expanded PolyStyrene foam. its made by putting little beads of polystyrene in a mould with steam, heat and a binder and they expand to fill the mould and the beads bind together into a solid block.

 

theres also some polyurethane foams you can buy. these are usually a bit softer than the polystyrene foams. they are made for insulation usually. you can get aerosol cans of this stuff for filling gaps around windows. it squirts out, foams up some and then hardens. some folks use this for small amounts of foam build up. its soft though and does not shape really well, but some. it would stay firm enough i think for your scenery modules. you can also get 2 part expanding resin to pour out and expand to make big pieces (folks use this to fill hollows in boat hulls with foam to help prevent sinking if flooded). one issue with expanding polyurethane is outgassing of some nasties with time. the can stuff for window and door insulation is done such that it has little or none of this. the resin mix stuff can have a lot though.

 

i think the soft foam blocks you are talking about is called floral foam. these are soft blocks of foam (i think probably poly urethane) that florists use to put in vases and stick flower stems into. it forms pretty easily but is crumbly. i think it holds up pretty well with time, but it is soft, you can easily stick your finger into the stuff to make a big dent.

 

one trick to get around the crumblies and softness would be to use something like the floral foam blocks (you can get them at the dollar store here cheap) or left over beaded polystyrene packing chunks and then put a coating of plaster on top of it to give it a hard shell. this would prevent future crumbling and denting. the foam will give you a light weight support to give your plaster a base and you only have to put a thin skin of plaster onto the foam. you could just paint a few coats of thick plaster onto the foam once you have it to the shape you want. then put your scenery onto the plaster. you can also put cheese cloth into your plaster if you feel it needs some more support to make a stronger shell, but for your little bits i dont think thats necessary (woodland scenics sells plaster cloth with a mesh with plaster on it just dip in water and apply, basically same stuff injury casts use to be made out of made out of)

 

some folks use sheet rock spackle/joint compound to make a hard shell on top of their foam base. this stuff is like icing a cake, but you can create a thicker mass of it to carve into for rock work etc. you can always use joint compound on top of the plaster to build up more in small areas fast and carve it easily.

 

really old technique was to use corrugated cardboard and cut out stacks of it like a contour map. this makes a stair stepped form. then folks would put plaster on top of that. foam is a lot faster than this though! 

 

for you little areas on mini dioramas like this you can get away with what ever probably as its a small area and pretty little stress. its only when you get to doing large areas do you really have to worry about time and how well it will hold up on a big scale. grab some hunks of foam packing, some plaster from the craft store, small tub of joint compound from the hardware store and play some.

 

while you are thinking of this you should think through the track and how it will go on as eventually it might be nice to start connecting these together into a little modular layout even! take a look at what urlrich did here, simple and created wonderful little dioramas for train display but can turn into a cool book shelf point to point or table loop layout!

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/pages/modelingjapan/minimodules.html

 

keep us posted, love to see what you do! 

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Mudkip Orange]

I don't think we have that much train related or anything special like that unfortunately.

 

Naw, you just haven't looked hard enough m8. For instance a bit more Googling found me this list of hobby shops in NSW:

 

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11305337.htm

 

 

And while most of their websites don't have detailed stock information, I did find this retailer in suburban Melbourne which stocks the Woodland Scenics risers and inclines:

 

http://www.trainworld.com.au/pricelists/scenery.pdf

 

 

If nothing else, MB Klein will ship internationally.

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/SubTerrain-Layout-Structures-s/433.htm

[keitaro]

Tomo try Clark's rubber they have all sorts of foam etc big sizes too.

 

 

[marknewton]

Tomo Takino, where in NSW are you? I ask because there are a number of hobby shops and suppliers in our home state, not just in Sydney. I suggest you  get hold of a copy of this magazine:

 

http://www.australianmodelrailways.com/amframe.html

 

Every issue has a hobby shop and supplier index, plus a listing of model railway exhibitions/train shows and swapmeets for the entire country. Bill's suggestion to visit a train show to buy used track is a good one - every exhibtion I've been to over the years has had someone selling used trains, track etc.

 

Woodland Scenics products are carried by most model railway shops here, so they're not hard to find. If you decide to go for extruded polystyrene sheet it's available from this supplier:

 

http://www.austech.com.au/

 

I wouldn't recommend using either the white expanded polystrene or the florist's foam on their own, neither is strong or durable enough to make a diorama base.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[Keikyu]

Tomo Takino, where in NSW are you? I ask because there are a number of hobby shops and suppliers in our home state, not just in Sydney

 

I am on the Central Coast, about 2 hours north of Sydney. We do have some people who would supply stuff much like people here are suggesting, it's just a matter of getting to them, or finding out if they ship online.

 

Thanks for the help everyone. I will be reading through this to decide what will be best for someone like me who hasn't done this kind of thing before.

 

One idea I really loved was Jeff's Modular layout in the link. I am a bit strapped for space at the moment, if I make a modular set like those then I can just pack them up and move them around when I want to use them and save alot more space than a static layout.

[cteno4]

Tomo

 

Most important thing is to just experiment with little samples of techniques, materials, etc. I have little test scraps of cardboard laying all over the shop of things I've tried out. Best way to learn!

 

You can make your base out of extruded polystyrene, but like mark said the beaded styrofoam or floral foam is not sturdy enough for the module's full support. Best to at least have a foam core or better a wood base of some sort. This can be a simple plank or something as complex as a ttrak box, all depends on what you want to do. With a good foundation your foam can be much more delicate if its got a decent covering like plaster. Others have used paint or even white glue to make a durable shell on top of the foam. Track should be on solid extruded polystyrene foam or a wood section of some sort if yo plan on linking modules together.

 

Having a little modular layout can be a lot of fun and also allow you to create different combinations of scenes to keep things fresh. For doing mini diorama scenes I like the U shaped module design Ulrich used. It's simple and allows scenes to go above or below the track level easily. Also simple to cut out with a minimum of tools and woodworking skills. They are a bit heavy, but you can use thinner plywood stock and just put some braces in if you wanted.

 

You might also experiment some with your module shape and size by just cutting out some cardboard modules and plunking track down on them and some temporary scenery items and buildings. This will give you an idea of what proportions you like to display your trains and fits w.in track sizes, buildings, etc. you may find there are two or three / proportions that you like and that's cool as you can mix and match these in your little modular layout. You can also experiment this way on where the track might be on the module.

 

So play and experiment some with materials!

 

Jeff

Edited April 2, 2013 by cteno4

[Keikyu]

Sure thing. My idea was to have a base of wood, and use the foam to make the slopes which my elevated track would sit on. That's all I really wanted it for. Alot of the ideas here are promising, so I will be shopping around a bit.

 

You people are really quite nice on helping people. I quite like getting varying amounts of help, it really does give me alot to think about rather than jumping in and screwing it up.

 

I will definitely be posting pictures. I was thinking of using Trainz to make a quick mockup of what my original idea was.

[macdon]

I was thinking along these lines as well - a diorama base to show off trains maybe just long enough for a single Unitrack straight track.

I will make a prototype out of cardboard and shape some contours via bondo then have everything molded in fiberglass so that every time I need one, I could have my workers just pull me a copy.

 

With the fiberglass base, just paint, add turf and clump foliage and be done!

 

Mardon 

[Densha]

Finaaaally I remembered that Ken was using the insulation foam. Lookie here: http://www.sumidacrossing.org/LayoutConstruction/FoamScenery/ & http://www.sumidacrossing.org/TheModelRailroad/LayoutDesign/FoamPlanning/

 

Hobby Search even has some Peco single flex, not much more expensive then buying it locally I think (at least for me):

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10083285

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10083286

Ship it with SAL, or together with another item and I think you're off fairly cheap considering the prices of SAL.

You can also get a pack of straight Unitrack or Finetrack if you're doing small modules.

[Keikyu]

Awesome, thanks for all the help.

 

I am not sure where to start now to be honest.

[Densha]

You said you just wanted a static diorama like in the picture in your first post right? Just choose between some straight tracks from any company or get a flex track (which ultimately means you need to ballast orz). Get a piece of wood (and if you get get some foam from somewhere make some relief) and put the track on it. Then only the foliage remains, Woodland Scenics for example makes great stuff.

However, I say this now but I haven't done it myself either yet...

Maybe this could be a good start too: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10184369 & http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10202569 (if you can find it somewhere)

[cteno4]

Tomo,

 

I would start with a little test module. Like densha said just put some track down on a piece of wood and start playing with scenery.

 

I have always tried new scenery techniques on little scraps of cardboard. Fast way to try things out till you get the hang of it. Then they act as little samples to keep around to get ideas from. I write on the bottom any details about the test (ie varying ingredients or changing steps). I find this better than trying to document this other places and is great with the visuals of the sample.

 

Don't worry about doing the perfect diorama right off the bat, it's a learning process and have fun with it.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

Edited April 5, 2013 by cteno4

[macdon]

Is this what you might be looking for?

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10028996

[KenS]

For this kind of diorama, I'd recommend the Woodland Scenics "riser", which is a flexible styrofoam structure available in several heights.  You need to use plaster cloth to make a slope (over crumpled newspaper, for example), but it gets you a flat base for track plus an irregular natural-looking slope.

 

However, flat sheet foam may be more appropriate if you're planning to place buildings, as they need a flat area.

 

I would avoid the beaded styrofoam myself. The extruded stuff (woodland scenics, or insulation foam) is both easier to work and much sturdier. Beaded foam will break along lines that you aren't expecting while being cut, and bits can break off later.