Akihabara Station

[CaptOblivious]

You need to hurry up and finish that, Captain. :)

 

LOL, oh my. A more than full time job and a baby mean I get maybe, on average, an hour a week to work on this…it's going to take a while! I hate to disappoint…

[disturbman]

But I could use the fact that you have a baby to your advantage. She wakes you up at night, you give her what her needs and then modell a little bit. I know fathers that were able to play strategy game at nights. 

[grumbeast]

And I thought I was lucky in that my little girl slept through the night a lot!.. If only I'd realised all the modelling I could've gotten done I would have woken her up!  :grin

 

of course then my wife would've probably been upset!

 

lovely looking Diorama, I hope its coming on well

 

G

[CaptOblivious]

Oh mer gerd!!!

 

http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/2012/10/01/i-am-alive-and-making-progress/

[cteno4]

Don,

 

you go dude! glad the family had the creative day to get you going again. love the mock ups, great visualization!

 

for the neon, ive seen some EL wire down to like 1mm, still pretty thick for N scale signs though. the miller engineering EL panel kits would probably do what you need and seem like something you would enjoy doing!

 

http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html

 

check out paperbrick http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=selectbrick cool pdf program. try inkjet on some artist papers to see if you can get a tad of texture. laserprinter looses the texture as the toner flattens it all out. hit with matte clear spray then weather.

 

how big is the tv? there are some of the cheap mp4 players out there down to like 1.4" screens, but those scale out to like 200" diag screens. really fancy you could use one of those little lcd projectors, but not cheap

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gigaware-Micro-Projector-New-/160893344814?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item2575fd9c2e

 

sounds like a cool capt electronics project! would be great to find a small like 0.75" digital screen that could take ntsc! a few years back i saw the early models of oled buttons like 0.75" square that you could set with a fairly dense pixel count image to have changeable buttons faces!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[CaptOblivious]

you go dude! glad the family had the creative day to get you going again. love the mock ups, great visualization!

:D

 

for the neon, ive seen some EL wire down to like 1mm, still pretty thick for N scale signs though. the miller engineering EL panel kits would probably do what you need and seem like something you would enjoy doing!

 

http://www.microstru.com/Experimenter-Kits.html

 

Looked at this stuff earlier. It's a possibility, but I think the detail I'm having to deal with is too fine. Might be able to do something with the EL panel for the scrolling display (although it would be static…), and I might could make something work for the AKB48 glowing logo, but I'm leaning more towards clear styrene, LEDs, and diffusers for the rest.

 

check out paperbrick http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=selectbrick cool pdf program. try inkjet on some artist papers to see if you can get a tad of texture. laserprinter looses the texture as the toner flattens it all out. hit with matte clear spray then weather.

 

Too cool! Found exactly the right brick almost instantly. Now I have a whole sheet full!

 

how big is the tv? there are some of the cheap mp4 players out there down to like 1.4" screens, but those scale out to like 200" diag screens. really fancy you could use one of those little lcd projectors, but not cheap

 

The TV screen is like .75" diagonal, give or take. I suppose I could use a larger screen, and just matte it out, plenty of room for that! Taken your suggestion and bid on a cheapo MP4 player!

[Hobby Dreamer]

the miller engineering EL panel kits

 

Hi Jeff..

 

Is there a site that better explains these products?  I was aware of their ad signs but not really sure what they mean by EL panels. Can you make your own signs?

 

Do you know if their lighting gives up much heat? I did notice that MBKlein sells their stuff at a better price!!

 

Rick

[cteno4]

Capt,

 

ive seen some good tiny ELs done. not sure how fine you can cut down for strips. other idea is just make a mask to put over the el. with a laser cutter this is very simple to do with raised letters as you can use the cutter to cut the raised letters that can set on top of a mask and you get both raised and glowing! when are the cheap laser cutters coming!!!

 

this is the best option ive found for the large video screens at 1.8" screen, about the smallest you can get for mp4 players these days. it has a remote so its easy to do all the setup.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200798784456?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

i looked at a bunch of the little picture displays that have like 1" screens (ie on keychains, etc) but they all seem to want to do transitions when you put them on slide show and also you need to hit buttons to set it so you need to wire those in.

 

 

Rick,

 

The EL (electroluminescent) panels are panels or wires with a coating that glows when you pass a high voltage/freq current thru them. you can cut them up, but you need to wire in contacts to each piece. they dont put off much heat at all. the inverter can some times make a high freq whine noise that some can hear.

 

i think miller engineering use to have a pdf on the site with more info, but cant find it. perhaps email them and maybe they will provide one.

 

you can also get 1.3mm wire that glows. i was thinking of getting a couple and experimenting with putting some up the side of a building as a lighting detail.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks Jeff (sorry for hijacking this thread)

 

I feel even more like a Luddite but, in truth, I've never seen these types of lighting on any layout at rail shows.

 

 

 

@ Don,

Great to see the progress!

[CaptOblivious]

No, no worries about hijacking! I've been trying to learn more about EL for this project anyway. I'm familiar with it, and have done some looking into it prior to posting here, but it is good to hear from those with experience.

 

One thing I want to try, and want to know if it is feasible: Using thin white EL wire to simulate flourescent tube lighting. Is the EL bright enough to illuminate an n-scale station platform when strung as a parallel pair of wires?

[cteno4]

capt,

 

interesting idea! i was tempted to pick up a bit of 1.3mm to play with. i do remember when i played with it years ago the stuff was hard to strip, but that was a long time back with big brittle stuff. this new stuff looks so much more supple as it can now be used in clothing!

 

jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Capt,

 

The same company makes small fluorescent tubes - way out of scale;  but you could mask the tube with paper by having a small slit for the light to shine through. Close up it might look crap but it might give you the lighting you need and the look at a distance. Maybe these can hide in the canopy of the platform etc.

 

Sometimes Jeff scares me - he knows too much. I often wonder if he isn't a spy for Walthers?

 

One great thing about this company's products (http://www.microstru.com) is that they can run off batteries. This save a ton of wiring as well as hassles if things are not working..

 

Here they are:

http://www.microstru.com/Flourescents.html

 

I don't quite understand the product line and photos can be misleading because they can be long exposures to brighten the look of the light. I'm starting a list of stuff to buy (to enjoy over Christmas) and I'm thinking about getting a few of these lighting products, so I can let you know. I'm no where near a layout but am having the "bug" to play around. I've always wanted a lit layout - so many Japanese N trains and trams are lit so it would be nice to take advantage!

 

Glad to see you planning again, Don!

 

Rick

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Capt,

 

This is probably HO scale but kinda impressive!

 

http://www.microstru.com/CustGallery-Stu-Gralnik.html

 

Masking the lights with paper/plastic would work well on the outer wall. TBH, I dod not really notice the scale of the lights - the whole thing looks great!

 

Rick

[CaptOblivious]

Rick,

 

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions! I'm pretty sure those florescent tubes are going to be too large to hide inside the canopy, but that diorama is really fabulous!

 

I suppose maybe at this point I oughta just call up Miller Engineering and ask their professional opinion!

[KenS]

EL wire is interesting stuff.  I haven't played with it yet, but I did some reading on it after Don mentioned it a few weeks (months?) ago.  There's a really good tutorial/intro here.

 

From what I've read, the brightness depends on the frequency of the inverter used (however one site said frequency affected color and voltage affected brightness, but it also said frequency affected brightness at another place on the same page), higher = brighter, but at the same time, operating life decreases with higher frequencies (but it's 5000 hours @ 400Hz, so even losing a lot of that is probably ok).  It'll work down to tens of Hz, but normal seems to be several hundred to a thousand or more, and there are high-brightness inverters of several thousand Hz (one wire I saw was rate to 5000 Hz but I've seen inverters up to 8000 Hz). The two sparkfun inverters that have data sheets are variable from 80Hz to 3500Hz.

 

However, nowhere could I find anything quantitative about light output, although one site has a comparative picture of different lit wires.

 

The smallest wire I found was 1.2mm (that's about 18cm or 7 inches in N), which makes it rather large for visible "fluorescent" tubes, although it might work as a fluorescent fixture.

 

I'm thinking of experimenting with this for my "Riverside Crossing" station platforms when I get around to them. But that's likely not soon.

 

BTW Don, congrats on getting back to work on the station. I'm looking forward to seeing how that progresses.

[cteno4]

Damn you guys you have me thinking of 1/150 scale fluorescent lights!

 

Wondering if the ultra fine 3d printing material on shapeways mupight give the right translucency and the paint the rest and back with a couple of 603 smd LEDs...

 

Jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

Thanks Ken!... for your research...

 

This stuff is driving me nuts!  I'm forgetting all about trams and thinking only lighting!

 

I'd love to have lights on my layout but the LHS only has ModelPower or equivalent lighting that looks too big for N or even HO. A long time ago I bought some Fibre Optics (but I remember when it was called Optic Fibres) however the quality was not very good meaning not much light came through. Then I saw some cheezy lighting thingy (it changed colours) using these fibres and the amount of light was not too bad. Probably better or thicker fibres.

 

There seems to be at least 2 types of lighting although I don't know lighting terminology. The first would be sufficient light for a sign or window; while the second would be enough light to illuminate a street etc.

 

For sure the EL stuff will be enough for the first. I may bite the bullet and get Brawa lighting - the LED type, as they look amazing..

 

Sorry again Don for hijacking this thread..

 

Rick

[KenS]

Yeah, maybe someone should split all this lighting stuff off to the Electronics platform.

 

One last bit on EL Wire, Make has an article that includes a circuit diagram to build your own variable-frequency controller, along with a note that both color and intensity vary with frequency, and peak illumination occurs around 2,000 Hz.

 

One problem with EL wire is that you can't bend it very sharply. That limits its applicability for "neon" signs.  You could use an EL Panel (basically a sheet of the same material) with a black mask in front of it to make signs though.  I'd been thinking about that...

 

On the subject of streetlights, so far my only one is on my expressway, where I'm using an HO-scale LED-based light by Viessmann that's 70mm tall. It looks good as an expressway light, but it's too tall for an ordinary streetlight.  It does illuminate about 4" (10cm) out from the pole fairly well though. I've never seen anything that looks "Japanese" for an ordinary streetlight (the fixtures I've seen in real photos are either long and narrow or very small square floodlights (although this Minatronics fixture comes close, but at 53mm I think it's too tall).  I did think about a 1" (~2cm) strip of EL wire as the basis for a long/narrow one, but most EL inverters need feet of wire to work properly, and will burn out if you don't give them enough load.

[CaptOblivious]

OK, for the time being, because resources are scant and I'd rather experiment widely than pin my hopes on an elaborate scheme, I've decided to ditch EL wire—for now. I'm still intrigued, and will likely find a use for it elsewhere on my model.

 

In the meantime, I've decided to give following in Quinntopia's footsteps a try. First because obviously it works for him, and second because it is a cheap and quick experiment—albeit an ongoing one.

 

http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/2012/10/08/transparent-trompe-loeil/

[cteno4]

Capt,

 

sounds like a very good alternative for the lighting. will be interested to hear how well the mask layers work! sounds like the el sheet would be great for doing that back lighting if you colored your letters in the transparency. this is definitely something i want to play with myself! i orders a cheapo 1.3mm el wire kit to see if it can be used for some larger building light strips to do some wilder building lighting. i found some stuff down to 0.9mm dia. dont think it will work for little tiny stuff as ken remarked on.

 

on the marque, no tiny tiny 7 segment displays you could gang up? then a little driver circuit then to march things across them all! it would be so tiny at any distance you would not make out the characters.

 

ok what about doing it old fashion and doing a transparent printed band and put it on a motor to scroll it! total cheat! if you had more room the band could be wider and just run in front of a slot.

 

how about this idea, tomytec starts selling generic little building boxes with LCD screen all around them and then you can just program them with building wall faces, complete with animations in windows, moving signs, etc. get tired of a scene just reprogram the building faces!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Capt

 

I like your ideas for the sign!  You mentioned  "transparency film " in your blog. What is this? And can it be used with a printer that wraps paper through rollers. (I bought a printer that pretty good all around but the paper goes from the feed tray and loops - meaning it won't handle card stock. I may get a cheapo printer that feeds the paper directly without rolling back onto itself as I like the idea of card stock and use of various materials such as film.)

 

A friend recommended clear labels and one day soon I will give that a shot! (BTW, is that what you mean?)

 

Cheers

Rick

[CaptOblivious]

Hi Capt

 

I like your ideas for the sign!  You mentioned  "transparency film " in your blog. What is this? And can it be used with a printer that wraps paper through rollers. (I bought a printer that pretty good all around but the paper goes from the feed tray and loops - meaning it won't handle card stock. I may get a cheapo printer that feeds the paper directly without rolling back onto itself as I like the idea of card stock and use of various materials such as film.)

 

A friend recommended clear labels and one day soon I will give that a shot! (BTW, is that what you mean?)

 

Cheers

Rick

 

Rick, transparency film is much the same. It is sheets of clear acetate that you can print on that are meant to be used on those old-style overhead projectors. Pretty cool stuff all around...you just can't print white on them!

[CaptOblivious]

on the marque, no tiny tiny 7 segment displays you could gang up? then a little driver circuit then to march things across them all! it would be so tiny at any distance you would not make out the characters.

 

The smallest 7-segment I know of is about a quarter inch tall, far far larger than the 3mm I have to play with! Still, looking to see how small through-hole LEDs get these days, since the ultra-high-tech 1mm x 0.5mm SMD LEDs aren't going to work.

 

ok what about doing it old fashion and doing a transparent printed band and put it on a motor to scroll it! total cheat! if you had more room the band could be wider and just run in front of a slot.

 

This had crossed my mind, but I'm not very good with mechanical doo-dads, or at least I don't trust my skills. If you wanna build me one, I'd take it, though ;)

[cteno4]

I could sware the led characters on my old Sinclair led watch inbuilt in the 70s had 3mm tall numbers--at least it felt like it! Was über cool for the times though, even of technically it was my dads and I just built it and then got to wear it now and then!

 

I'll play sometime this winter with the belt. I did get a few low rpm motors lately to play with.

 

Have to get the geese done first.

 

Jeff

[Mr Frosty]

 

 

Works for me.