Tokyu Toyoko line reaches Saitama

[bill937ca]

Saturday March 16, the Tokyu Toyoko line began running through the Fukutoshin line providing a connection between Yokohama and Saitama. Japan Times report is here.

 

The old Tokyu terminal in Shibuya will be demolished later.

 

 

 

 

[ToniBabelony]

This last week, there was an item on this on almost every single talkshow or news program. It has been a really big event, since Shibuya station isn't only one of the busiest stations in the world, but also because the Tōkyū station long dominated the Shibuya station square with its 60s retro arches.

 

[miyakoji]

Are there any specifics about what will be built there after the station is demolished? Shopping is a safe bet :).

Edited March 18, 2013 by miyakoji

[bill937ca]

Are there any specifics about what will be built there after the station is demolished? Shopping is a safe bet :).

 

From the Japan Times article:

 

"The Toyoko Line’s current facility at Shibuya Station will be used as an event space called Ekiato (Station Site) from March 26 to May 6. After that, the site will be razed and a new office-commercial complex will be built."

[bill937ca]

This last week, there was an item on this on almost every single talkshow or news program. It has been a really big event, since Shibuya station isn't only one of the busiest stations in the world, but also because the Tōkyū station long dominated the Shibuya station square with its 60s retro arches.

I read afterwards there are real concerns about the number of passengers that will be in the underground line.  Nobody knows how many will just stay on the trains and read through. Monday will tell.  But Wednesday is a holiday so this week may not be the real test.

[bill937ca]

Edited March 18, 2013 by bill937ca

[bikkuri bahn]

I read afterwards there are real concerns about the number of passengers that will be in the underground line.  Nobody knows how many will just stay on the trains and read through. Monday will tell.  But Wednesday is a holiday so this week may not be the real test.

 

I think the various shopping districts are already pretty segmented by customer type, so other than the casual visitor, there will be little change for Shibuya.  That said, Tokyu opened its Hikarie Building located adjacent to Shibuya Sta. to attract an older, more monied (female, 25+) clientele, which is not the type of customer that normally shops in Shibuya.

[bill937ca]

Last day in Shibuya terminal.

 

[Sacto1985]

That was a great video showing truly the end of an era in Tokyo-area commuter railroading. It's going to be so strange to have Tokyu Toyoko Line trains no longer end in Shibuya, but go all the way well into Saitama Prefecture.

[Mudkip Orange]

I'm curious what they'll do with the big linaer right-of-way off Meiji Dori. Could build a whole lot of Mansion apartments...

[Mudkip Orange]

From the first video that bill posted it looks like they had the existing line on jacks directly over the new line. Would be great to see a time lapse of them doing the final switchover on Friday night...

[railsquid]

In case anyone's interested, there's a "farewell event" going on in the old Tokyu station today, Saturday and Sunday. They've covered over some of the tracks to create space, but it's the last chance to see the old structure. You can also, for a small fee (you need to buy a special bag) dig-your-own track ballast as a souvenir. 120 yen entrance fee.

 

Info in Japanese: http://www.shibuya-tsunagaru.com/stationpark.html

Edited March 22, 2013 by railsquid

[railsquid]

I'm curious what they'll do with the big linaer right-of-way off Meiji Dori. Could build a whole lot of Mansion apartments...

 

I walked along it last week, for most of its length the viaduct is sandwiched between the Shibuya "River" and a small road, the only space where any development could take place is just before it curves over the Yamanote Line, behind the garbage incineration plant. It'd be nice if they left the viaduct up as an elevated walkway like they did in New York, but the structure looks pretty dilapidated and I guess it would be a liability especially bearing in mind earthquakes.

[gmat]

Comments about the new connection at Shibuya.

 

 

Shibuya's new underground station garners negative reviews

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/shibuyas-new-underground-station-garners-negative-reviews

 

Fortunately, I don't have to transfer from the Fukutoshin Line to the Yamanote Line at Shibuya. (Denentoshi to Fukutosnin) But transferring from the F Line to the JR Lines at Shibuya and at Ikebukuro means a lot of walking. Not even remotely convenient.

 

Best wishes,

Grant

[Sacto1985]

I've read the next major project at Shibuya Station is JR East completely redoing the Yamanote Line station there. Not only is the station getting old, but the JR platforms don't connect well with other lines. Hopefully, once the JR East project is completed, you should be able to smoothly transfer from subway and private railway lines to the JR East Yamanote Line platforms at Shibuya.

[gmat]

I haven't seen any plans for the JR Yamanote station remodeling, so it's probably premature to comment, but I can't see any way that the Toyoko Line, as newly connecting with the Fukutoshin Line, will be any closer nor more access friendly with the Yamanote Line, not without moving the tracks underground or excavating new access stairways/escalators. I think that the most serious problem is that the lack of latreral space for expansion means that most additions have to be vertical. The lines end up trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot.

 

I have reason to transfer at Shibuya tomorrow. I'll spend some extra time to shoot the actual routes from the Toyoko platforms to the JR platforms.

I'll also shoot trying to transfer from the Fukutoshin Line to the JR Yamanote Line at Ikebukuro. It's best to transfer to the Yurakucho Line before Ikebukuro. 

 

Best wishes,

Grant

[bikkuri bahn]

I think in the end, the improvements far outweigh the inconveniences at Shibuya- people after all can transfer at Naka-Meguro to the Tokyo Metro Hibiya Line, as well as Meiji Jingu Mae- which provides access to the Chiyoda Line/Odakyu Line.

[ToniBabelony]

For those interested, the old Tōkyū station is now used as a pop-up store from Uniqlo, who also sell railway related t-shirts and stuff. Good prices and great quality prints!

[railsquid]

I haven't seen any plans for the JR Yamanote station remodeling, so it's probably premature to comment, but I can't see any way that the Toyoko Line, as newly connecting with the Fukutoshin Line, will be any closer nor more access friendly with the Yamanote Line, not without moving the tracks underground or excavating new access stairways/escalators. I think that the most serious problem is that the lack of latreral space for expansion means that most additions have to be vertical. The lines end up trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot.

 

The plans I've seen involve a) moving the Saikyo line platforms parallel to the existing Yamanote Line platforms (which will be a major improvement) and b) converting the two Yamanote Line platforms into a single island platform in roughly the same position. One of the recent issues of "Tokyojin" focussed on Shibuya and the current/future redevelopments, which are quite radical.

 

Also the Ginza line platforms will be moved eastwards so they're over the Fukutoshin line; you can see support pillars under construction for the new platform (which will also be an island platform).

[Densha]

If I'm correct this magazine features a model of Shibuya station:

http://rail.hobidas.com/blog/rmm/archives/2013/03/rm_models213.html

[Sacto1985]

By the way, here's a video of a ride on a Tokyu train from Yokohama Chinatown all the way to Kawagoeshi Station on Saitama Prefecture, taken right when the new through service started:

 

Edited June 22, 2013 by Sacto1985

[Guest keio6000]

By the way, if you search for 'youtube downloader' you'll get a program which lets you download videos for offline viewing.  It's useful because for long train videos you can skip around without waiting for youtube to 'buffer', a common phenomenon as the train videos tend not to be accessed much on youtube and thus tend to be slower.  particularly good for "HD" videos too.

 

i have downloaded probably 1000gb of videos this way!  who knows if i will ever watch them, but they are there.

 

i used to take the fukutoshin line daily for a few weeks from meijiingumae to the optimisitcally named 'higashi shinjuku station' (actually, basically near okubo culturaly if not geographically).  you had to factor in the incredibly long 'climb to the surface' time when using higashi shinjuku (i think the northbound fukutoshin platform there is the deepest in tokyo, if not japan).

Edited June 22, 2013 by keio6000

[bill937ca]

By the way, here's a video of a ride on a Tokyu train from Yokohama Chinatown all the way to Kawagoeshi Station on Saitama Prefecture, taken right when the new through service started:

 

Its 85 minutes running time from Tokyu Yokohama  to Tobu Kawagoe (the  Minatomirai Line doesn't have interactive timetables that show the trains progress all the way along the line).  Here's an example in Japanese:

 

http://transfer.navitime.biz/tokyu/pc/diagram/TrainRouteTimetable?trCd=0261025f&year=2013&month=06&day=24&hour=10&minutes=12&type=1&rrCd=00000790&stCd=00000838&updown=0

 

Through-running trains from the Toyoko line run twice an hour at mid-day. None of these through running trains seem to  run very often.  Most are around 2 trips per hour.  But then how many people would ride the whole line?

Edited June 24, 2013 by bill937ca

[bikkuri bahn]

But then how many people would ride the whole line?

I reckon very few end point to end point.  Perhaps some on the weekends (say, residents in Saitama visiting Chinatown). Those benefiting most would be those who catch the train at points in-between, for example, somebody living in the Jiyugaoka area that needs to get to Wako-shi, or vice-versa.

Edited June 24, 2013 by bikkuri bahn

[Guest keio6000]

I reckon very few end point to end point.  Perhaps some on the weekends (say, residents in Saitama visiting Chinatown). Those benefiting most would be those who catch the train at points in-between, for example, somebody living in the Jiyugaoka area that needs to get to Wako-shi, or vice-versa.

 

What are the numbers we saw?  1.7% increase in ridership and 1.3% increase in revenue?   Seems like a pity to get rid of the old Tokyu shibuya terminus for that (especially for something as soulless as Uniqlo or whatever retail monstrosity will follow), but, well, time goes on.  It's asking too much from Japan to designate it a historic landmark or somesuch.

 

Also, it's JPY 170 cheaper (450 vs 620) to take the Fukutoshin + Toyoko compared to taking the Shonan Shinjuku line from Ikebukuro to Yokohama while being only 2 minutes slower, nominally.  However, a lot of that comes down to psychology - wherever you are in Ikebukuro, it's probably easier to get to JR than to figure out how to get to Fukutoshin, and, righly or wrongly, it just seems more likely that you'll catch a reasonably fast shonan shinjuku train rather than happening upon on a fast Toyoko express.