Grass....

[Darren Jeffries]

Ok, so I have been using scatter grass from Woodland scenics on my diorama bases for my model aircraft. I apply it by pasting PVA glue to the area needed and then "Scattering the grass. After it is all dry I shake off the excess. I have noticed that even after days and weeks, the grass has a tendancy to "molt".

 

I was intending to use the same method on my layout (when I eventually finish the attic), but i wondered what I should use to seal in the grass without making it look terrible.

 

any ideas?

[CaptOblivious]

Something I do with my diorama bases is to shake the WS grass on in massive quantities, immediately shake off and recover the excess…then blow on it really hard (outside! Or someplace I can vacuum). This makes the grass stand nice and tall, and seems to help the grass bond to the PVA. You might find that a good vacuum could do larger areas at once, and suck up the mess simultaneously. Anyway, the results of this technique have been quite durable for wargaming terrain, with very little molting or degradation over the course of two or three years.

[quinntopia]

I highly recommend using 'foilage' as your primary ground cover, and using the static grass and powders to accent it.  Foliage is basically the same material as most other landscaping materials, except its sort of a 'net' type material that you tear, cut or stretch as needed and then lay over some glue/paint to adhere to the layout.  The stuff stays down and looks far better than the kind of results I would expect to get using the more traditional methods of 'sprinkling' and using static, etc...

 

I have a post on some of the foliage materials I've used on my blog

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2008/12/adding-foliage.html

Below is a photo of a hillside on my layout using 3 types of foliage.  WS is starting to market some of this (or I just finally noticed). 

 

[Sushi Train]

I highly recommend using 'foilage' as your primary ground cover, and using the static grass and powders to accent it.  Foliage is basically the same material as most other landscaping materials, except its sort of a 'net' type material that you tear, cut or stretch as needed and then lay over some glue/paint to adhere to the layout.  The stuff stays down and looks far better than the kind of results I would expect to get using the more traditional methods of 'sprinkling' and using static, etc...

 

I have a post on some of the foliage materials I've used on my blog

http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/2008/12/adding-foliage.html

Below is a photo of a hillside on my layout using 3 types of foliage.  WS is starting to market some of this (or I just finally noticed). 

 

 

 

Hi quinntopia, just want to ask, how long and wide is your latest layout? I love your track design and am going to build mine very similar if not the same as yours. Well done, great work.

[quinntopia]

Sushi train:

 

Thank you very much!  (hmmmm...there's no 'smiley' for blushing!  :))

 

My layout is actually two hollow core doors laid end on end, so that's 2x 80"x36" doors = 160"x36".  It's actually a bit wider than that as I had to add some 2x2's to both of the 'long ends' to accommodate the multiple loops!

 

The hardest part was the area where the grades meet all come together on the elevated section where a line goes underneath them! 

 

I don't know if I would use hollow core doors.  I had some warping / bowing problems with the second one that I had to cut from the bottom and brace to get the surface to be level, and drilling electical/threading wires is a pain with the hollow core doors.  However, they are a nice, smooth clean surface to start with that is light weight and easy to move!

[Sushi Train]

Sushi train:

 

Thank you very much!  (hmmmm...there's no 'smiley' for blushing!  :))

 

My layout is actually two hollow core doors laid end on end, so that's 2x 80"x36" doors = 160"x36". It's actually a bit wider than that as I had to add some 2x2's to both of the 'long ends' to accommodate the multiple loops!

 

The hardest part was the area where the grades meet all come together on the elevated section where a line goes underneath them! 

 

I don't know if I would use hollow core doors.  I had some warping / bowing problems with the second one that I had to cut from the bottom and brace to get the surface to be level, and drilling electical/threading wires is a pain with the hollow core doors.  However, they are a nice, smooth clean surface to start with that is light weight and easy to move!

 

Thanks very much! i have my base done already, its 9 ft by 4ft, here's some pics,  :)

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,812.0.html

 

Thanks for the quick reply  :)

[Bernard]

Quinn - Nice work with your scenery and I like the retaining wall you made.(you can blush again, but you deserve the compliment. ;))

I see you're using Noch products, have you ever used Woodlandscenics products? If so how would you compare them? I also have a problem with WS adhering to the surface and I have to use a spray mist of alcohol to wet it then diluted glue, but I do get mixed results.

[Guest ___]

I've come to lath WS stuff and prefer the SE for ground cover though I am still using the WS. I haven't had any issues as so much as I see WS as the Microsoft of model railroading scenery. Of course, I over saturate the WS with so many coats of scenic cement it has trouble doing much of anything.

[quinntopia]

Bernard,

 

I don't use any flocking...too messy and too complicated (bly flocking, I mean the 'strands' of grass and not the 'powders' - forget the correct terms at the moment).  I 'learned' the method using foliage from a Minitrix book whereby you apply a coat of acrylic paint (in my case / preference, a grey color) and then lay some of the foliage material on top.  As the foliage material is a 'netted' sheet, you tear (or cut) strips to suit the area you just painted or are covered.  I then use a little of the WS 'powders' in the appropriate colors to finish it off.  The great thing about this is that there is no misting to coat everything - which is a part of the process I've hated!  The glue/paint mixture is a lot 'tackier' than just white glue on its own and holds just enough of the powder to give the right effect (and it doesn't NOT flake off over time as the traditional method seems to do). 

 

I go into some depth on this on my blog, look under the 'scenery' tags for photos, etc...  http://quinntopia.blogspot.com/

[quinntopia]

One more thing...the one WS product I've found invaluable are (no surprise) the risers.  There's no way I can get a grade to work out without those!

 

Additionally, the 'foliage' material is somewhat expensive, so I also use Noch or Heki grass mats, especially those that aren't just flat mats, but have a 'carpet' of grass on them.  Scenic Express has a good selection of these materials.

[Bernard]

I agree, WS best product, in my opinion, are the inclines & risers, a huge time savor! I forgot to ask you, you have the Minitrix DCC control system, how do you like it and is it hard getting customer support if you need it?

[SubwayHypes]

 

 

 

i love the way that grass loooks on the left, i have to grab me some of that.

[quinntopia]

Bernard:

 

I would recommend that you avoid the Minitrix Mobile Station, unfortunately I don't have any other alternatives!  Its a nightmare for programming (the latest post on my blog covers my pain there!), and okay for operations (not perfect).  Basically, I got it based on the looks/design (because the other main DCC controllers look like the old controllers from 80's video games or utility equipment!) and a hope in German engineering!  :D

 

I used to have the Bachmann Dynamis...miserable wireless signals made that a poor controller.  IT did have a great user interface and was easy to toggle between locomotives and edit CV's etc.... although I was not a fan of the joystick for acceleration.

 

I've been looking at the new Roco 'ZentralStation' system (or however its spelt), which has not been released yet.  This is an evolution on the current Roco Multimaus, which has gotten very good comments from folks using it, and it promises real wireless capability (NOT infrared!).

 

I've also considered the EsU ECOs....again, they will use basically the same controller as the Dynamis (it appears) but it will be radio wirelesss not infrared.  The Viessman commander is also a contender (in the DCC category of "Really nice big screens and really expensive) but there does not seem to be a remote controller option as with the Ecos (or the new Marklin Central Station 2 which can now do DCC, see below).

 

Marklin is supposed to come out with a new Mobile Station (for Trix as well as Marklin stuff), but with their financial troubles, I'm not sure if we'll ever see that. 

 

I really wish the Japanese would enter the DCC market in a big way...imagine what Kato or Tomix could do with a controller given their success in design of so many of the other 'non-sexy' aspects of the hobby.

 

I did get really good (less than 30 day turnaround) service on my Mobile Station when I sent it back to Germany for warranty repair last Fall, so there's that!  My plan now is to stick with the Mobile Stations (I have 2, one for me and one for my son) until something better comes along, and use DecoderPro and a Sprog II for programming.

[quinntopia]

Subway Hypes:

 

i love the way that grass loooks on the left, i have to grab me some of that.

 

That is from a Heki "Wildgrass Mat" of grass. The method I use is to tear pieces off the mat that would make sense with the terrain (slopes, hills, proximity to roadbad) and then fill in the gaps with the paint/glue mix and sprinkle on some scenery or apply some foliage.  I think the type used in the above photo is thishttp://www.eurorailhobbies.com/erh/eurorailhobbiesdetail.asp?pageid=&erh_find=H-1575&MN=13&stock=H-1575 from Heki.

 

If you use too much of the mat, it starts to look like a very plush carpet!

[SubwayHypes]

^thanks, im gonna try and get some of that, yea it makes sense to only install in patches surrounded with a little foilage to blur the edges.