N700A begins scheduled running

[angusmclean]

Looking for photos of the accident at Arai through the Yomiuri Shimbun and found this story:

 

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T130208004619.htm

 

 

cheers

 

Angus

[Sacto1985]

I expect the N700A to start replacing many older 700's on the Nozomi runs over the next year or so.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Older 700's?

 

Can't they rebuild them and keep they longer in service like its done for airplanes?

 

Or is it a matter of having tbe latest fastest safest trains?

 

The older ones can get sold to other countries.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Webskipper

[railsquid]

Older 700's?

 

Can't they rebuild them and keep they longer in service like its done for airplanes?

 

Or is it a matter of having tbe latest fastest safest trains?

 

The older ones can get sold to other countries.

 

I think he means the N700As will be put on Nozomis and the older 700s will be rotated to Hikari and Kodama services.

[Densha]

To Taiwan... But I don't know of any retired Shinkansen ever been sold abroad. I also thought about it before but there's at least the safety systems, the frequency and volt on the catenary, and the spacing that has to be the same to support Shinkansen trains.

I find that JR Central is going a bit too far in replacing trains recently, the 700 series isn't old at all and I presume it's in good shape too (and maybe better comfort than European hst's). A bit ironic that the N700A will only go 270kp/h even though the just retired 300 series could do that speed too. :(

Edited February 14, 2013 by Densha

[Ochanomizu]

The speed limit to 270km/h on the Tokaido line is attributed to factors of economics, noise, and track design.  On the Kyushu line the limit is 260km/h and on the Sanyo line the N700A gets up to 300km/h.  These are speed limits, not the top speed that the vehicle is capable of.

 

Still, I would prefer the diversity of the 300 series back on the Tokaido line.

[Densha]

I never knew of these speed limits, I presumed trains could go 300km/h on the Tokaido Shinkansen too. Makes me wonder even more why they retired the 300 series even though it was capable of Tokyo - Shin-Osaka services. Maybe the acceleration?

[Sacto1985]

I believe that the speed limits on the Tokaido, Sanyo and Kyushu Shinkansen lines are due to the design of the tracks, not the design limits of the trains. That's why the Sanyo Shinkansen lines are rated at 300 km/h in many sections and the Tokaido Shinkansen is max-rated at 270 km/h (not bad given when the Tokaido Shinkansen line was originally built it was designed with a max speed of 210 km/h with the original 0 Series trainsets).

 

In contrast, the Joetsu and Tohoku Shinkansen lines are designed for much faster operations. Indeed, we may soon see 300 km/h operations on parts the Joetsu line (once appropriate trainsets are assigned there!) and E5/E6 trainsets go as high as 320 km/h on the Tohoku line.

 

I believe why the 300 Series were retired was because lacking modern train suspension systems, they couldn't take curved tracks anywhere as fast as the 700/N700/N700A trainsets now do. As such, the 300 Series trains took longer to travel between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Sacto1985

[200系]

I find that JR Central is going a bit too far in replacing trains recently, the 700 series isn't old at all and I presume it's in good shape too (and maybe better comfort than European hst's).

 

Older 700's?

 

Old is a relative concept, 19 (excluding the prototype) of the original 700系 where built in the 1999~2000 period, and are approaching  14 years of age, which for a Shinkansen is a respectable age (especially at JR Tōkai)*. Shinkansen formations simply have a tough life in comparison to you're average conventional train (similar to the bussiest Tōkyō commuter lines, which have a similar 10~20 year turnover rate as well), which leads me to quote myself from an earlier topic:

 

"Retirement at 14 years is hardly unprecedented in the history of the Shinkansen, in fact the very first batches of 0系0番台 Shinkansen where retired after 14 years of service. From the top of my head I can think of the following:

 

-0系2000番台 Cars, build between 1981 and 1986, many where scrapped in the 1990's, some barely 13 years old.

-100系 X formations, prototype build in 1985, main series build in 1986, retired in 2000 14~15 years of service (JR Tōkai)

-100系 G formations, build between 1988 and 1992, last retired in 2003. 11~15 years of service (JR Tōkai/West)

-100系 V formations, build between 1989 and 1992, last retired in 2002. 10~13 years of service (JR West)*

-200 系 248形/249形 (double decks cars build for the H formations), build between 1990 and 1991. last retired in 2004. 13~14 years of service. (JR East)

-300系 J formations, quite a few of the remaining J formations where delivered in 1998, they where retired (again) after 14 years of service. (JR Tōkai)

-500系 W1 formation (first production set), build in 1996 retired in 2010, 14 years of service. (JR West)

-500系 W formations (surplus cars, not used in V formations) build between 1997 and 1998, retired in 2010 after 12~13 years of service. (JR West)

 

It's also worth mentioning, that JR Tōkai in general retires their Shinkansen at an earlier age then West and East."

 

Which shows that the case with the 700系 is hardly unprecedented (excluding the fact, that while a few formations will be scrapped, some might be transferred to JR West).

 

 

A bit ironic that the N700A will only go 270kp/h even though the just retired 300 series could do that speed too. :(

 

 

Yes, but not on the entire Tōkaidō Shinkansen though. While the Tōkaidō Shinkansen has an official maximum speed of 270km/h, there are a few sections where this speed is reduced to 255km/h max, due to "sharp" curves (2400m radius). The N700系 family has been equipped with a tilting system (JR  East's E5系 and E6系 as well, but that's another story), which means they can take these sections even when traveling at ~270km/h, which as you can imagine, saves quite some time compared to the older 300系 (x), 500系 (x) and 700系.

 

*(x) retired (from the Tōkaidō Shinkansen).

 

 

I never knew of these speed limits, I presumed trains could go 300km/h on the Tokaido Shinkansen too. Makes me wonder even more why they retired the 300 series even though it was capable of Tokyo - Shin-Osaka services. Maybe the acceleration?

 

Age mostly, as the oldest JR West Formations (F1 and F2, Built in 1992, the remaining formations F3~F9 where built in 1993, so not really spring chickens either) where reaching the end of their 20 year design life. JR Tōkai's surviving 300系 formations where somewhat younger (J30, built in 1995, being the oldest formation, the rest being built in the 1997~1998 period), having retired most of the older formations from 2006 onwards. And yes, the N700系 does accelerate a lot quicker then her older sisters (fastest accelerating Shinkansen if I'm not mistaken).

 

 

That's why the Sanyo Shinkansen lines are rated at 300 km/h in many sections and the Tokaido Shinkansen is max-rated at 270 km/h (not bad given when the Tokaido Shinkansen line was originally built it was designed with a max speed of 210 km/h with the original 0 Series trainsets).

 

Slight correction, the Tōkaidō Shinkansen was built with 250km/h in mind from the start (hence the 2400m minimum radius, which is more then enough for 250km/h), but it was sold as a 200km/h system in order to ensure it was build, as I believe J.N.R. president Sogō Shinji thought a 250km/h system would be shot down as ridiculous by both the Diet and the World Bank (which isn't that hard to believe, since the Shinkansen project, as hard as it is to believe these days, was considered by many within J.N.R. and the Diet as a pipe dream, destined for failure).

 

The 0系 was therefore built with the idea that it would be replaced by a new, and faster series within a few years. This obviously didn't happen for various reasons, and the 0系 was allowed to evolve into the train we know (I really find a way shoehorn the 0系 into every Shinkansen topic, don't I? ). Most of the research/testing into faster Shinkansen, would find it's way into the second Shinkansen type, the 200系 in the late 1970's

 

for more info on this chapter of the 0系 see:JNR Hamamatsu Works, Death Of the 0系0番台 (1976~1986) on this forum.

 

 

Indeed, we may soon see 300 km/h operations on parts the Joetsu line (once appropriate trainsets are assigned there!) and E5/E6 trainsets go as high as 320 km/h on the Tohoku line.

 

I don't see this happening anytime soon, to be honest. Even the 'new' E2系 J formations (Formations J7, J8, J9 And J15 for now, all E2系0番台) which in theory could boost the speed to 275km/, are limited to 240km/h on the Jōetsu Shinkansen, it also feels (to me at least) a bit like the stepchild of the JR East Shinkansen routes (logical considering it caries fewer passengers then the Tōhoku Shinkansen IIRC), running older, displaced equipment since the E1系 was relegated to the Jōetsu Shinkansen in 1999. A bit ironic considering the Jōetsu Shinkansen was running the fastest (in terms of top speed) Shinkansen service from 1989 till 1997 (Jōetsu down, between Jomo-Kogen and Urasa** with a F90~F93 Sub-Formation 200系).

 

-Sander

 

*My personal (non official, non scientific) rule of thumb for Shinkansen age is the following:

 

-13~15 years old, medium-aging, between 25 and 30 years old for a conventional train

-15~20 years old, aging, between 30 and 35 years old for a conventional train

-20~25 years old respectfully aged, between 35 and 40 years old for a conventional train, demands respect.

-25+ years old, seriously aged, 40+ years old for a conventional train, salute worthy when reached.

 

** taking advantage of the continuous downward grade between those stations

[Sacto1985]

I believe that the Jōetsu line is limited to 240 km/h maximum because of this issue: the extensive use of the E4 double-decker trainset, which has a top speed to 240 km/h. If Jōetsu were no longer running E4's and instead running longer E2 formations, I do think it's likely the top speed would north of Jōmō-Kōgen Station would be more like 260-270 km/h.

 

As for the Tōhoku line, I believe it was designed for speeds well over 250 km/h, as noted by the E2/E3 trainsets topping out at 275 km/h and the E5/E6 trainsets topping out at 320 km/h, especially between Utsunomiya and Morioka. It'll be interesting to see what trainset JR East/JR Hokkaido uses when the Hokkaido Shinkansen line from Shin-Aomori to the new Shin-Hakodate station opens in spring 2015--will it be E5 only, or will some new-build E2's also run the route?

 

I believe that the Tokaidō line is still limited to 270 km/h max for another reason: noise abatement. A Shinkansen trainset blasting by can generate a lot of noise, as noted by many YouTube videos of 500 and 700/N700 trainsets blasting by stations at 270 km/h and faster. 

Edited February 16, 2013 by Sacto1985