New Drive Mechanism For Kato HO Models

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Looks like Kato used the new coreless N motors to make self contained trucks for HO.

 

Clever design and frame.

 

[cteno4]

guess they liked what they did in the portrams! nice to be able to just work on the truck for mechanical or have a spare to pop in if one goes down. nice to have all that room in the cab then, lots and lots of room to play with!

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I'd be a bit worried about pulling power really, and I don't see any reason to do this with this specific loco. I can see it being nice for motor cars so the motors are well hidden and you have all the interior detailing and such, and obviously for trams it's nice (as seen in the portrams) .. Makes me wonder if this is a first sign for an H0 scale unitram/portram system ;)

 

Another problem would be that if 1 motor breaks down, you'll have to replace both in order to keep their running characteristics in sync. Digital might also be an issue, as H0 usually runs on around 16-18 volt on DCC, which isn't recommended for N-scale motors.

[VJM]

I'd be a bit worried about pulling power really

 

I'm not.  I've played with this loco in person (I have the DCC Sound version coming for myself on the way) and the setup is incredibly powerful.  Playing with it at the shop, pulling power easily matches anything else I've seen.  Subjectively holding down the loco with my hand on the test track, we wound the power up and the thing literally tore out of my grip!

 

I have an ESU ECoS II controlling my H0 layout, set with only 14V coming through, so I don't think voltage is a problem.  :dontknow:

Edited January 23, 2013 by VJM

[bill937ca]

The HO EF510 is already available.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10184233

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10184234

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10184235

[Davo Dentetsu]

 

I have the blue Hokutosei version.  This thing is deadly serious in pulling power.

[Martijn Meerts]

I'm glad to be proven wrong with regards to pulling power. The H0 scale models from Kato and Tomix looks absolutely amazing, and I notice Kato is even releasing additional detail add-on parts.

 

Makes me want to do some Japanese H0 modules, but I've already got so much going on =)

 

 

 

Edit: good thing I'm not a power-hungry admin, or I would've banned Webskip for bringing up the H0 stuff.. Now I've started looking at H0 and H0e track and World Kougei H0 and H0 narrow gauge kits and all that :D

Edited January 23, 2013 by Martijn Meerts

[cteno4]

martijn,

 

just what you need, another expensive hobby and project! yes it was evil to put that in front of you, like putting a steak in front of a hungry dog and saying stay!

 

jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

Yeah, and the thing is, Tillig has some beautiful HO/HOe track, including combined tracks which allows for narrow gauge trains to run on the main line for short distances and all that good stuff.

 

An idea for an old logging/mining line is already forming, with some sort of storage/transfer facility to move logs from the logging line over to a main line train .. Main line could also have the occasional short commuters train .. All set somewhere in the 60s perhaps, loosely based on the Kiso Forest Railway (heck, World Kougei has Kiso Forest Railway rolling stock :))

 

 

... 

 

 

Why do I have a feeling this is going to turn into an H0/H0e version of T-Trak ;)

[cteno4]

one layout at a time martijn, one layout at a time...

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

Yeah, and the thing is, Tillig has some beautiful HO/HOe track, including combined tracks which allows for narrow gauge trains to run on the main line for short distances and all that good stuff.

 

An idea for an old logging/mining line is already forming, with some sort of storage/transfer facility to move logs from the logging line over to a main line train .. Main line could also have the occasional short commuters train .. All set somewhere in the 60s perhaps, loosely based on the Kiso Forest Railway (heck, World Kougei has Kiso Forest Railway rolling stock :))

 

 

Why do I have a feeling this is going to turn into an H0/H0e version of T-Trak ;)

 

Martijn, maybe you should start publishing a model railroad magazine then you could buy all kinds on trains and build all kinds of layouts full time. 

Edited January 23, 2013 by bill937ca

[Martijn Meerts]

one layout at a time martijn, one layout at a time...

 

jeff

 

But, but, but .. My big layout is going to take at the very least another 10 years, I need some distractions as well :D

 

 

Edit: just had a quick search for some info on the Kiso Forest Railway.. Seems they used a Shay, which would be a reason for me to do some modules based on the Kiso Forest Railway (I just love the Shay :)), but (luckily?) there doesn't seem to be any in H0e ;)

Edited January 23, 2013 by Martijn Meerts

[marknewton]

Martin, did Kiso have a Shay, or have you come across photos of the Ali Shan Forestry Railway Shays? I may well be wrong, but I thought that the Kiso steam fleet was all Baldwin 0-4-2Ts?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Martijn Meerts]

Mark, it said the Alishan Forest Railway Shay was originally used by Kiso Forest Railway, but got transferred to Alishan when that line opened.  Sounds like they only ever had 1 Shay while the rest were 0-4-2Ts (of which World Kougei does a model ;))

[Nick_Burman]

Mark, it said the Alishan Forest Railway Shay was originally used by Kiso Forest Railway, but got transferred to Alishan when that line opened.  Sounds like they only ever had 1 Shay while the rest were 0-4-2Ts (of which World Kougei does a model ;))

 

The Japanese Forestry Bureau did try a Shay loco against the 0-4-2ST locos; the ST won. I don't know if the trial was at Kiso, in any case one Shay loco (the same engine?) made its way to the Yanagase Forestry Railway in Shikoku.

 

Cheers NB

[marknewton]

Well there you go, I said I might be wrong!  ;) 

 

Martin, I had another look in Small's "Far Wheels II", he also mentions a Shay being trialled on the Kiso and then going on to Alishan. But based on further reading and a bit of googling, I wonder if this was actually the case? The identities of the Alishan Shays are not very clear, as there are conflicting lists, and the locos themselves have had major components swapped around and have been extensively modified, so the answer might never be known. There's an interesting page on them here: http://www.shaylocomotives.com/surviving/AlishanShay.htm

 

Nick, your mention of the Yanagase Forestry Railway is very interesting, that's another line I hadn't known about. The Shay Locomotives website lists that engine and shows it as being scrapped there, so presumably it didn't go to Alishan: http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/lima2399/sn-2001.htm 

It seems more likely to me that if a Shay was trialled on the Kiso, it would have been this one.

 

At any rate, I'm fascinated to learn of a 30" gauge Shay running in Japan, it would make for a very distinctive model. Thank's to you both for your input! 

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[Martijn Meerts]

Mark, what I read (but since it was on the internet it has to be taken with a grain of salt or 2 :)) was that the first Alishan Shay was bought from Kiso Forest Railway.

 

 

Back on topic, I noticed the H0 EF510 has direction dependent head and tail lights in the loco, makes me wonder why they do that in H0, but not in N ..

Edited January 25, 2013 by Martijn Meerts

[Densha]

After someone here at the forums reminded me that locos have the tail lights turned off when a train is coupled to it, I stopped worrying about that. I guess it's also difficult to make the (even more) tiny tail lights in N gauge locos, it would only make the models more expensive.

[KenS]

In N, any space used for lights and head/tail-light lenses has to be taken away from trhe body-filling weight. There's little enough weight in an N-scale loco, so that's probably one reason not to do  tail lights.

[Martijn Meerts]

Oh, I don't mind not having tail lights either, most my locos will always be coupled to the same cars, and I don't really need tail lights. I just thought it weird to do it in H0 but not N .. It's not that much more difficult either, they already do it in ever single cab car they release ;) It also seems like they make special note of the tail lights in the video.

 

Interestingly, the Tomix Kiha01, Kiha02 and Kiha03 rail busses all have direction dependent head and tail lights, and they're about 1/3rd the size of the average loco :)

 

 

Don't think weight is the issue either. Practically all European brands have head and tail lights in their (newer) locos, and many of them are heavier than Japanese ones. Of course, the European locos cost quite a bit more...

[Nick_Burman]

Martin, did Kiso have a Shay, or have you come across photos of the Ali Shan Forestry Railway Shays? I may well be wrong, but I thought that the Kiso steam fleet was all Baldwin 0-4-2Ts?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Mark,

 

The Kiso fleet was quite varied as the JFB used the railway as a sort of "testing ground" for locos. Although towards the end of steam the Baldwins were the bulk of the fleet, but before there were locos from other origins - O&K, Porter, Amenomiya, Tateyama, even the JGR built locos for Kiso. Wheel arrangements varied also a bit, there were not only 0-4-2 locos but also 0-4-0 and 0-6-0.

 

One detail which is little known by Western entusiasts is the fact that the Baldwins were also used in forestry railways other tan the Kiso - AFAIK as far north as Aomori.

 

Cheers NB

Edited January 25, 2013 by Nick_Burman

[Nick_Burman]

Well there you go, I said I might be wrong!  ;)

 

Martin, I had another look in Small's "Far Wheels II", he also mentions a Shay being trialled on the Kiso and then going on to Alishan. But based on further reading and a bit of googling, I wonder if this was actually the case? The identities of the Alishan Shays are not very clear, as there are conflicting lists, and the locos themselves have had major components swapped around and have been extensively modified, so the answer might never be known. There's an interesting page on them here: http://www.shaylocomotives.com/surviving/AlishanShay.htm

 

Nick, your mention of the Yanagase Forestry Railway is very interesting, that's another line I hadn't known about. The Shay Locomotives website lists that engine and shows it as being scrapped there, so presumably it didn't go to Alishan: http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/lima2399/sn-2001.htm

It seems more likely to me that if a Shay was trialled on the Kiso, it would have been this one.

 

At any rate, I'm fascinated to learn of a 30" gauge Shay running in Japan, it would make for a very distinctive model. Thank's to you both for your input! 

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

 

JFB chose the 0-4-2T locos because, where grades permitted (and the Kiso railway did permit - unlike Alishan, the logs had a clear downhill run all the way to Agematsu) they were faster over the road than the Shays and also because they had a wider firebox permitting the use both of wood and poor grade coal.

 

Yawata Steelworks and the Osaka Naval Shipyard were also Shay users; the Osaka locos were 3ft gauge.

 

 

Cheers NB

Edited January 25, 2013 by Nick_Burman

[clem24]

It's cost. The taillights are pointless unless the loco is running alone. Why pay the extra and if I was mr. Kato, why waste the money? It's totally feasible to do it. Just look at the EF63.

[Martijn Meerts]

So, is the EF510 still the only loco to have this new mechanism? I'm still somewhat interested in getting some Japanese H0 at some point, but it'd have to be a very specific era/subject in order for me not to go as crazy as I've done with my Japanese N-scale :)

 

I'm still looking at mainly forest railways, but I'd like to get some mainline action going on as well. Taking for example the Kiso Forest railways (not saying that's what I'll model), they started laying track in 1901, first locomotives ran in 1907, and it was abolished between 1966 and 1976. I've somewhat fallen in love with trains like the EF57 and EF58, so I would likely model something from around the time period those were running, so something like early to mid fifties.

 

Obviously I don't want to only buy trains with this new mechanism, but it just seems rather interesting, and probably leaves a LOT more space for a decent speaker (or multiple speakers) so you can get at least halfway decent sound out of the thing ;)

 

(And yes, I've already been looking at World Kougei kits, I just really don't need any more of those considering I still have 8 of them to finish first ;))