New Layout Started

[LostinTime]

I started my layout yesterday.  My friend, who is a cabinet maker, helped me out.  We built the frame in four sections, in his shop. Hopefully, I'll get it home tomorrow and get it bolted together.  I had to start with a frame plan instead of a track plan as I had a somewhat limited, useable floor space.  Below is a block diagram of my frame.  I have already cut inch foam for the base of the layout.  Dimensions listed on diagram are useable foam area (not actual frame size...frame is actually bigger.)  The frame was made out of 3/4 inch plywood cut into 1x3s and 1x4s.  We made five pairs of legs wit 1x3s and 2x2s with adjustable glides. We may have to make one or two more set of legs...I'll know for sure once I get it assembled.

 

If anyone wants to help with a track plan, it would be appreciated.  The layout will be in N scale.  Current plans are to have dual parallel mainlines.  All tracks will be on risers.  Does anyone have the width of the Woodland Scenic's N scale risers? 

 

I'll try and post pics of the frame sections when I get them home and when I get them bolted together

[Hobby Dreamer]

Looking forward to your work!

 

I *might* have the riser width - need to unpack a few boxes!

 

Cheers

Rick

[bill937ca]

Risers are 2 1/2 inches (6.35 cm) wide.

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1409/page/1

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1407/page/1

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1414/page/1

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/ST1406/page/1

[Bernard]

Lostin Time - wow I would have loved to have a cabinet maker as a friend when I was building my layout...lucky you!

One question and I always bring this up because of a mistake I did on my first layout.....in the corner area do you have enough access to reach in the far corner? (easy access is important when laying down track, doing scenery or getting a derailed train.)

[LostinTime]

Don't think it will be much of a problem.  Only 39 inches and the bench height is approximately 37 inches high.

[bill937ca]

Don't think it will be much of a problem.  Only 39 inches and the bench height is approximately 37 inches high.

 

And your arm is more than 39 inches long?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Welcome.

 

Nice tables to start with. You can use your computer to design the layout. I use Railmodeller and modern Kato Unitrack.

 

As long as the tracks are not 36 inches away from you then you won't have any grabbing issues.

 

Check out this Woodland Scenics video

 

youtube.com/watch?v=GRQC12X7RIA

 

Lots of good ideas on how easy it is.

 

Plaster cloth - Dont drown it. Quick dip and flatten with a paint brush.

[nik_n_dad]

Welcome.

 

Nice tables to start with. You can use your computer to design the layout. I use Railmodeller and modern Kato Unitrack.

 

..<snip>...

 

Plaster cloth - Dont drown it. Quick dip and flatten with a paint brush.

 

We were like you- we had a fixed space to try to slam as much railroading fun into as we could, vs starting with a plan and working from there.  I did go down the path of using railmodeller, and the problem I had is that you can spend your entire life tweaking and messing and never quite being happy. 

 

I'd suggest going that route to get some ideas flowing, and then actually messing with some track on your layout with either the structures you're going to use or some foam blocks that are the same size (including height!) to see how your layout is going to look, if you have clearances, etc.  This is actually easy if you go down the unitrack route... use railmodeller to get in the right direction, buy some track, et it on your table, throw down some structures (or if more scenic, mark where mountains, rivers, lakes, etc go).  Cut out strips of poster board for streets or other stuff, then start moving your track (and everything else) to get to look good.  Then run a few cars on the track of the length you typically use, to see if the curves are right, if you have s-curves, clearances, etc.

 

We generally did landscaping by layering foam into "cake layers" and in some cases, use a surform to countour.  You can also use wads of paper.  Then use the plaster-encrusted cloth strips.  You will need to put down a couple of layers, and do it in one pass (meaning, you really don't want to put more plaster cloth down after a first layer has dried).  Overlap, and use your fingers to mix and activate the plaster.  i'd also suggest to avoid the WS plaster cloth.  Get the stuff that the hobby-lobby/michael's sorts of places sell.  It's finer mesh and has more plaster and is generally cheaper (and comes in various widths).  It's easier to work than WS.

 

But take everything I say with a grain of salt.  I've been working on Nik's layout for years....I'm hoping to have it done before he goes to college...   

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I've been working on Nik's layout for years....I'm hoping to have it done before he goes to college...   

 

Then you'll have a train room :)

[LostinTime]

What do you think of the ortho cloth? ( the stuff that the doctors use for casts )  its fairly cheap.  (about 60% cheaper than the WS. even though you have to buy a whole case)

 

The only thing in regards to the foam that WS makes that I plan to use are the incline starters, inclines, and the risers for the curves.  For the straight risers, I plan on just using extruded insulation strips cut to match the width of the WS stuff.

[Bernard]

I used both Hydrocal cloth (used to be used in making casts for people) and WS cloth.....the Hydrocal cloth if you can find it, is much cheaper in cost but beware.....if the cloth is old it won't give you the results you're looking for. I had this problem when on ebay I bought a lot of military medical hydrocal and it was too old, it never set right.

 

Another point, if you use WS risers, which I used, after you glue them down onto your layout then cover them with Hydrocal cloth completely....it will make the job easier when laying down the cork roadbed and then the track on top of the riser.

Good luck!

[nik_n_dad]

Another point, if you use WS risers, which I used, after you glue them down onto your layout then cover them with Hydrocal cloth completely....it will make the job easier when laying down the cork roadbed and then the track on top of the riser.

Good luck!

 

definitely need to fill the spaces on he risers (which by the way, are fantastic).  Just need to make sure the surface is very smooth and level at our scale, and if you're using unitrack.  We ended up using the WS foam putty (or the lightweight joint-compound kind of stuff from home improvement stores).  It's much easier (but costly) to use this and a putty knofe to get those risers absolutely flat and smooth.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Today, I found out the hard way that WS plaster cloth needs a second layer or additional plaster. 

 

I was trying to add desert dirt that was sifted though a window screen. The dirt fell through tiny pinholes in the plaster cloth. maybe it was because the cloth was years old.

 

I recoated the failed areas with plaster and than coated with tinted water (little water based paint) when it dried.

 

Tomorrow or another day I can finish this messy phase and lay track.

 

Next project gets the craft store kind. Be careful, Michaels does carry WS products.

[KenS]

When I lay down plaster cloth, I wear disposable nitrile gloves (sold in the paint aisle at my local home supply store) and after placing the cloth and smoothing our any wrinkles, I rub it with my gloved fingertips to spread the plaster so it plugs the holes.

 

It's still good to overlap two layers of cloth before it dries, for extra strength, but plugging the holes can be done with even one.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

That's right Ken.

 

I was attempting to set an 8 foot horizontal piece. It dried fast when we had no humidity. The plaster water I used to coat it yesterday was actually the moulding plaster with a lumpy cream of wheat consistency. Looked at it today and the texture looks fantastic. The little lumps (outcrops) that did not absorb through will catch the dirt and make good places to put vegetation.

[LostinTime]

Check out plaster.com for hydrocal. Good prices or the best that I've seen.  Think I might try to make my own plaster cloth.  Good or bad idea?

 

New question.  If the WS risers are 2.5 inches wide, and normally for one track....even tho WS says you can parallel space at 1.5 inch centers on one riser....it seems to me that the appearance would be off....so how much width do you need to add to the riser for appropriate appearance?  Hope this makes sense.

 

Finally got table home (been raining).  Took pics will post as soon as I can find the cable to transfer.  Its still in pieces.  Hopefully Thurs or Fri to get it together (next days off from work).

 

I also want to take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone who has posted.

[Bernard]

Look at this link to "Blick Art" supplies:

http://www.dickblick.com/search/?q=plaster+bandages&x=0&y=0&sp_cs=UTF-8

 

It seems to cost less than WS cloth. It is going to take more time to make your own plaster cloth and the results might not be the same. As for the WS riser's width, they are made for both HO & N scale trains....but for N scale you can lay 2 tracks on the risers, which is what I had in my track plan. (See 2 photos)

 

If you are only going to lay one track on the riser, center it and you can either trim the edges or use hydrocal cloth to sculpt hills using the risers as the base.

[LostinTime]

Pics as promised.

 

Picture of each section plus a pic of the legs and a pic of my first kato purchase

[LostinTime]

pics cont

[LostinTime]

pics cont

[KenS]

New question.  If the WS risers are 2.5 inches wide, and normally for one track....even tho WS says you can parallel space at 1.5 inch centers on one riser....it seems to me that the appearance would be off....so how much width do you need to add to the riser for appropriate appearance?  Hope this makes sense.

 

Rail right-of-way can vary quite a bit.  In a crowded city environment, having the ground slope away right at the edge of the track isn't entirely unrealistic. However, having a bit of relatively flat space on the outside probably looks a better, if there's space for it:

 

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/80446466

 

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JR_Central_Shinkansen_300.jpg

 

You could model that with a bit of crumpled newspaper next to the riser, to provide a support for the plaster coth.

 

And having one track centered in a wider space looks appropriate in a rural area:

 

[LostinTime]

Progress going slow but have some new questions......(Having got my first n scale train set ((Kato's Glacier Express)) I thought it might be nice to have a viaduct (bridge) that the actual train travels on). Faller makes (or made but still available) the Bietschtal Viaduct in both HO and N scale.  The HO is 43-13/16 x 3-13/16 x 8-13/16 inches (109.5 x 9.5 x 22cm) in size and is designed to handle two tracks.  The N  is 23-3/4 x 2-3/4 x 5-1/4 inches and am not sure if it was designed for two tracks or one. (the model).  The actual Viaduct was built with one track but was designed to add a second track in the future, when originally constructed.

 

My 1st question is would the HO scale viaduct look to be too far out of proportion running two N scale tracks?

[Mudkip Orange]

Is the Beitschtal kit in N too? I thought it was just HO, and N was limited to stone viaducts.

[LostinTime]

Yes it is in  both.  Not sure if they're exactly the same or not, except for scale. Only sure that the HO version will handle two tracks.

Only approximately 20 dollars difference in price.

 

Faller 120535 Bietschtal Bridge kit  HO scale

 

Faller 222580 Bietschtal bridge kit  N scale