My exhibition layout for sale

[domino]

Hey all

This weekend(right now) i am the the copenhagen hobby exhibition, and it is not going well , friday afternoon i was finished setting up, then the guy next to me needed the tables that i was using,meaning that we lifted the hole layout up 4 men togther and switched tables , now nothing was working after worths ,no electical contact and no train was running ,it took me 3 hours in to the exhibition to make some trains run but not all , could not find the bad connection,i ended up switching the layout to analog drive to make it run,analog is no so sensetiv about the electric pickup, so now all is runing.

 

ÑO is not for sale,just to get your attention ;-)

Æ

Im this close to switch to analog all together:-Po

 

Brian

[Hobby Dreamer]

Sorry to hear that things went downhill at the show.  How did the people/children enjoy your layout?

 

Is it Japanese based or European?

 

 

 

Cheers

Rick

[inobu]

Brian,

 

Based on the number of events you have been doing you are almost there and most likely need to streamline your layout deployment.

 

Here is what I would do if you have not already done it.

 

Simplify your layout connections and establish a layout build process. As I recall from the article you have a metro layout with a number of main lines and an elevated track.

 

Your wiring needs to be color coded with an alpha numbering system.  This will eliminate wire mishaps. Your Red line on the layout has red wiring tags. The alpha number system identifies component. SW1 (switch 1) PF 2 (power feed 2). So Red connector SW8 handles switch number 8 on Red line and so forth. The color coding segments everything on the layout for easy troubleshooting. 

 

Once you get that system in place you can map out the building locations and label and number them. That way anyone can help you setup without having to ask you where does this go? they just have to look at the map and place the building accordingly.

 

Next is the dreaded DCC.

 

DCC is all about steps and procedures.

 

If you don't already have a second DCC command unit I would get one it does not have to be a ECoS. Just something to issue commands and isolated your testing from the layout. Build a small programming track with it. As soon as your layout is set whip that test track out and start your pretest.

 

Your pretest will verify that the train is ok to place on the display. If the train does not respond go to the next one. All trains that work are placed on the track and you can start your showing. The failed units can be looked at after things calm down.

 

You should have a trouble shooting check list that you run through. The check list will keep you focus and track your steps just in case you get called off or distracted.

 

All your boxed should be labeled and numbered in order of use. First box is layout foundation, second track, third power wire and so forth. The last box is the train box. On tear down you will go backward in box numbering.

 

You cant use analog anyway. Your next goal is to deploy sound cards in your terminals. When your trains enters or leaves the station, the sound card will playback the Japaneses departure and arrival recordings automatically. You cant do that with analog.

 

Inobu

 

[cteno4]

Brian,

 

I know your pain. After 8 years of the JRM layout at shows we have had a range of issues that come and go! some shows trains run flawlessly w/o us doing hardly any checking or tweeking, other times electrical and/or track headaches a lot of a show! We have tried to standardize and simplify as much as we can over the years like Inobu outlined, but you can still get odd things creeping in that you are not sure where they came from or what you did to make them go away all the time! Its just part of having a layout that you build up and take apart like this at shows and try to not get too frustrated if a there is an issue now and then like this.

 

One thing we have said (but not yet done) is to start a bug book for the JRM layout. everytime there is an issue whoever finds it is sposta document it and then document what was done to fix it. this way we hope it will be better than us sitting around with a half a dozen different memories trying to reconstruct what happened last month or two years ago with some sort of issue! that just gets worse every year with us! hopefully we can do it and get a better picture of what is going on with intermittent bugs.

 

we are only dc so a bit simpler. I think Inobu's comments are wise to be extremely systematic with DCC over DC to make sure you dont bring more bugs into the issue.

 

Best of luck with it and stick with it!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[domino]

Sorry to hear that things went downhill at the show.  How did the people/children enjoy your layout?

 

Is it Japanese based or European?

 

 

 

Cheers

Rick

 

It is all Japanese, and everybody enjoys the layout everytime no probpem there, but at the end "it is after all not danish models" they always say , funny so narrow minded they are :-)

 

 

Brian

[domino]

Brian,

 

Based on the number of events you have been doing you are almost there and most likely need to streamline your layout deployment.

 

Here is what I would do if you have not already done it.

 

Simplify your layout connections and establish a layout build process. As I recall from the article you have a metro layout with a number of main lines and an elevated track.

 

Your wiring needs to be color coded with an alpha numbering system.  This will eliminate wire mishaps. Your Red line on the layout has red wiring tags. The alpha number system identifies component. SW1 (switch 1) PF 2 (power feed 2). So Red connector SW8 handles switch number 8 on Red line and so forth. The color coding segments everything on the layout for easy troubleshooting.   

 

Once you get that system in place you can map out the building locations and label and number them. That way anyone can help you setup without having to ask you where does this go? they just have to look at the map and place the building accordingly.

 

Next is the dreaded DCC.

 

DCC is all about steps and procedures.

 

If you don't already have a second DCC command unit I would get one it does not have to be a ECoS. Just something to issue commands and isolated your testing from the layout. Build a small programming track with it. As soon as your layout is set whip that test track out and start your pretest.

 

Your pretest will verify that the train is ok to place on the display. If the train does not respond go to the next one. All trains that work are placed on the track and you can start your showing. The failed units can be looked at after things calm down.

 

You should have a trouble shooting check list that you run through. The check list will keep you focus and track your steps just in case you get called off or distracted.

 

All your boxed should be labeled and numbered in order of use. First box is layout foundation, second track, third power wire and so forth. The last box is the train box. On tear down you will go backward in box numbering.

 

You cant use analog anyway. Your next goal is to deploy sound cards in your terminals. When your trains enters or leaves the station, the sound card will playback the Japaneses departure and arrival recordings automatically. You cant do that with analog.

 

Inobu

 

 

Hey

 

I have color coded  all wires  and carefully planed witch part goes together with witch part in the layout , so this is no problem, my problem this time was that there was some bad connection in the elevated track i could not fix, i even changed the track with a new one and replaced the unijoiner , but still no electric connection, very odd, still have not figured it out ??

 

brian

[domino]

Brian,

 

I know your pain. After 8 years of the JRM layout at shows we have had a range of issues that come and go! some shows trains run flawlessly w/o us doing hardly any checking or tweeking, other times electrical and/or track headaches a lot of a show! We have tried to standardize and simplify as much as we can over the years like Inobu outlined, but you can still get odd things creeping in that you are not sure where they came from or what you did to make them go away all the time! Its just part of having a layout that you build up and take apart like this at shows and try to not get too frustrated if a there is an issue now and then like this.

 

One thing we have said (but not yet done) is to start a bug book for the JRM layout. everytime there is an issue whoever finds it is sposta document it and then document what was done to fix it. this way we hope it will be better than us sitting around with a half a dozen different memories trying to reconstruct what happened last month or two years ago with some sort of issue! that just gets worse every year with us! hopefully we can do it and get a better picture of what is going on with intermittent bugs.

 

we are only dc so a bit simpler. I think Inobu's comments are wise to be extremely systematic with DCC over DC to make sure you dont bring more bugs into the issue.

 

Best of luck with it and stick with it!

 

cheers

 

jeff

 

 

Hey Jeff

 

Are you still DC, i did not know that, are a special reason why you have not switch to DCC  ??

 

I always make a log of the problems i have when in exhibition, so i can fix problem before next exhibition, so i hope that i can find  and fix it this time also.

 

brian

[cteno4]

Brian

 

Ha you are much better organized than we are with your log! i plan on bringing the new little book to the show this weekend and hope we can start using it! that means there will be no issues i expect!

 

yes we are still dc. not many of us have done any japanese train conversion to dcc. for my collection it would be a very large task and expense. something that ill do in retirement i expect, things should just get better and cheaper for decoders hopefully! the way the club layout is setup, dcc would not give many great advantages for operation and we dont usually do a huge amount of operations at shows, just swapping out trains and with the layout plan we can do that pretty easily with dc and just using kato power routing. we wanted to keep things as simple as possible for the club layout.

 

we can easily turn any of the 4 main lines into dcc as they are isolated if we want and have done that in the past when a member wants to run some dcc.

 

i have a dcc controller that at some point we are going to experiment with just wiring dcc decoders (larger amp ho ones) to each line so we can use a single controller for all 4 lines on the layout. also would be useful for ttrak as well.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Im this close to switch to analog all together:-Po

 

No Don't do it!

 

Digital is so much more interesting and real.

 

Even the women are impressed when you mention chips, wifi, and there's an app to run my trains.

 

Single moms do take notice.

[Martijn Meerts]

Jeff, there is a system developed by some dutch guy that allows (fully automated) running of both analog and digital trains on the same layout. It's actually what they use on the large layout in Rotterdam (http://www.miniworldrotterdam.com/ENGindex.htm) .. Unforunately, pretty much all info is only available in Dutch, and few programs support it.

 

I believe in essence it's what you describe. Instead of decoders in the trains, they add the decoders to each block. I think it uses PWM to control analog trains so that they have 127 speed steps. The layout in Rotterdam has been running the system since the start, and it looks to be running well.

 

I actually wonder why I've never considered using the system for my layout(s) ... :)

[Densha]

I thought Miniworld uses Koploper? Or is it a combination of that software with that certain system?

[cteno4]

if we had a lot of members with dcc converted japanese trains we might, but currently only one member has a few of his japanese trains converted. so doing anything more than dc is a waste of time and effort for us really and probably asking for headaches. After 8 years of doing the display layout keeping things simple is good! operations wise dcc would add very little to the current jrm layout. it was designed for simple dc operation to swap out trains easily so we can keep different stuff running with a minimum of fuss for the audience. they really dont care how its controlled, they are much more into the trains themselves and the more unique looking japanese layout scenery. Actually its a great talking point of unitrak and simple dc power routing and how easy it is to get going with the stuff w/o having to get digital or do block wiring and control panels. great for beginners to grok. yes it would be sexy to use the iphone to run the layout, but we have way more sex appeal with the trains and layout so better to keep folks focused on what they have in front of their eyes.

 

we also really decided that we did not want heavy operations on the show layout as this usually just puts members between the trains and the audience and the audience really does not grok what the operations are really, they want to see the trains run! by having the fast switch out of trains possible we can take requests of what train to run with is another huge crowd pleaser. you can tell it is something that will cement the memory in folks brains of the layout when they get to choose a train to pull out!

 

the layout is not quite big enough to run multiple trains per track anyway. puts trains very close together and just gets a bit much. when we did it in the past two trains seemed a bit too often trains were coming by and it took the operator keeping a close eye he did not rear end someone! on the old layout we had a folded figure 8 so there was a very long piece of track that you could get away with two (and even three) trains going at once on it, but it had the 90 crossing in there so you had to beware! good T bone accidents did happen!

 

if we end up doing rhe dcc decoders to the rails then we can get the things like emergency stop, single controller and iphone control. maybe next year.

 

so for now we will stay simple and happy. we can spend the time and money on more detailed scenery as that always increases the audience appeal as well. in the last year or two we have been working on simplifying as many things as possible to make our lives easier with the layout. the easier things are the more doing this does not become a drag as it can wear on you.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[nik_n_dad]

Instead of decoders in the trains, they add the decoders to each block. I think it uses PWM to control analog trains so that they have 127 speed steps.

 

There was an article in one of the US n-scale magazines a few years ago on using dcc decoders on the track inside of the trains.  I'll see if I can find it and then we can figure out how/if I can share it, if there's interest.  I almost went this way, but then went the traditional direction, but it was pretty interesting

[disturbman]

There is definitely interest. I'm wondering about the implications of this and how it can be set up or use. :)

[cteno4]

I've talked about this for a few years with heavy duty dcc chaps do doing separate loops with a decoder each and they all think it should work well with heavy duty HO or O scale decoders. The only thing they caution is that decoders tend to be more sensitive to shorts on the engine side, so fast blowing fuse may help there. I need to research out the most robust higher amp decoder and get one to try. I picked up a nice nice had held dcc controller last year to play with this. Its nice as it has memory so we could plug it into either side of the layout and always have the controller in had. Also has a scroll wheel control so you can operate it with a single hand easily. Also has a dedicated emergency all stop button that would be great for us!

 

Our dcc power buss would be like 3' so no worries of drop or signal issues with pulling it apart like a modular setup.

 

Figured it would be great for our ttrak as very low power needed there and we have very little confident table space for multiple controllers. If I get the ttrak subway finished we will thn need 4 controllers.

 

Later could add in iPhone control.

 

Jeff

[Martijn Meerts]

I thought Miniworld uses Koploper? Or is it a combination of that software with that certain system?

 

They use Koploper to automate the layout yes. It's one of the very few programs that supports the system (hardware) I mentioned.

 

The system is called Dinamo, designed and built by Leon van Perlo. http://www.vpeb.nl is his site, mainly in Dutch but there's a little bit of English there as well.

 

Their OC32 is an interesting item as well, as it allows you to digitally control for example lighting. Each module has 32 outputs, and each output can have it's own effect. You can also combine outputs so that you can have something like warning lights at a road work site, or traffic lights etc. etc. The modules are pretty cost effective too and can be hooked up to a computer directly, so they don't even need an existing digital system. Of course, software wise there's not that much support for it ..