KIHA261s on their way to Niigata Transys, JR Hokkaido

[miyakoji]

Here's an interesting scene:

 

 

So Kawasaki fabricates the bodies and then sends them to Niigata Transys for... lots of stuff, apparently.  The temporary trucks (karidaisha, 仮台車) look like JR Freight TR223s, but based on the wikimedia link, several different types look pretty much the same.  Interestingly, they went via the Biwako Line, not the Kosei Line.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/10/31/090000.html

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bogie_trucks_of_JR_Freight

[keitaro]

probably a traffic thing or less to transport on that line??

 

so they go for interior fitting etc i guess ? also hard to tell in the pic but are they mising the ac units on top?

[miyakoji]

Notice that all kinds of gear bolted to the undercarriage is missing.  This are DMUs, there don't seem to be any diesel engines under there. 

[keitaro]

i watched on my mobile hard to see 

 

especially at the quality it was coming through on but yeah the roof looks bare too... maybe.

[bikkuri bahn]

Yes, at Niigata Transys they will be fitted with engines and other underfloor equipment.  Apparently these units are replacements as such for the trainset that was destroyed in the Sekisho Line fire in May of last year.  As that was a 283 unit, likely a 283 trainset used on Super Tokachi services will be shifted to Super Oozora service, and this 261 will be added to the Super Tokachi service.

[minijapan]

Im not too sure but this used to happen with some of the London Underground trains that were built in the English Midlands about 120miles away, they were locohauled to London on special transporter bogies, then exchanged for their normal day to day units there.

[Jace]

at Niigata Transys they will be fitted with engines and other underfloor equipment.  Apparently these units are replacements as such for the trainset that was destroyed in the Sekisho Line fire in May of last year.

 

Any chance that they'll be reusing equipment, especially the bogies, off the destroyed trainset? Seems odd to ship it out without the bogies, that's usually done only when the gauges are different.

[bikkuri bahn]

Any chance that they'll be reusing equipment, especially the bogies, off the destroyed trainset?

 

No, the destroyed unit was a 283 series, this is a 261 series.  The bogies, for instance, are completely different, as well as the tilt system.

[Jace]

The bogies, for instance, are completely different, as well as the tilt system.

 

True, but when you're starting out with a new and completely unequipped carshell, pretty much anything is possible. I say this as the railroad's report seems to show fire damage largely above the deck. If that's the case, give the bogies a thorough inspection, put them back in service and salvage whatever else you can.

 

By the way, if what I'm seeing is correct, the culprit was one broken cotter pin coupled with a bolt failure on the drive unit radius arm. The drive shaft itself has a safety strap (see the photo on the third page), but that wasn't enough as it looks like the shaft was dragging for about one mile before getting tangled up with a trailing point turnout causing the derailment. Probably made one hell of a racket while it was dragging. I would expect there were bolt inspections galore after this one with a likely retrofit program following a redesign of the hardware.

[miyakoji]

Thanks for that pdf link Jace, very interesting.

[bikkuri bahn]

For risk of beating the issue to death, there are three reasons why re-using bogies is highly unlikely:

1. the 261 was designed to use aircushion tilt, the 283 uses much more complicated mechanical tilt, with a more extreme degree of tilt.  There are issues of wheelbase differences (which would likely affect the mounting point), as well as the dynamics of the tilt affecting the bodyshell not originally designed for such degree of tilt (remember also the loading gauge, and the swing of the bodyshell).

 

2. Air cushion tilt is cheaper to maintain than the previous design- I doubt that an organization is going to fit a new unit with something that's going to provide more headaches for the maintenance department.

 

3. The PR factor- do you really think it's good to fit something off a wrecked trainset in a new replacement trainset, even if it's not an issue technically? JR Hokkaido has been plagued by accidents, the suicide of its president, and other mishaps, the press doesn't need to be fed something more for the headlines.  Much better to salvage and recondition the parts and discretely add them to the spare parts inventory for the existing 283 series .

 

If the 261 rolls out of Niigata Transys with 283 series bogies, I will be eating crow, but otherwise, that's my thinking.

[Jace]

Agreed - we'll see when it rolls out of the shop, though I will ask some people I know at Kawasaki about this and maybe get word a little earlier. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

Just one follow up on your comments. The PR issue can be worked in different ways: wasteful spending fixing old, damaged and maintenance intensive parts vs. economically rational re-use of those parts, poorly conceived re-design using equipment off a wreck vs. a creative re-design...how this plays out depends in large part on execution, technically, economically and politically too since we're talking about PR. By the way, cobbling together cars using components off a wreck is common. I've worked on a project where a few years ago a subway car had pretty much all its underfloor equipment ripped off in an override accident. The carshell itself was damaged but not enough to make an easy decision whether to scrap or re-use it. If it was to be scrapped, we would have used an extra test shell from a different (but very similar) car class. Some of the equipment mounting points would have been different but this wasn't seen as much of a factor. Bogies and some brake equipment would have been re-used but new propulsion equipment was needed. In end, and after many reviews, we are currently rebuilding the existing shell mainly because it is a little better economically. It's worth noting that the question of how this would play out in the press was not discussed. Granted, it was only one car in a unit, not a whole trainset, plus we didn't have to deal with the complexity of a tilt system as you well noted, but carbuilders and shops can both be pretty creative in these types of projects. I think of lot of them actually welcome the challenge - I know the engineering sure staff does!

[miyakoji]

3. The PR factor- do you really think it's good to fit something off a wrecked trainset in a new replacement trainset, even if it's not an issue technically? JR Hokkaido has been plagued by accidents, the suicide of its president, and other mishaps, the press doesn't need to be fed something more for the headlines.  Much better to salvage and recondition the parts and discretely add them to the spare parts inventory for the existing 283 series .

 

If the 261 rolls out of Niigata Transys with 283 series bogies, I will be eating crow, but otherwise, that's my thinking.

 

iiiiiiiirk emergency brake application!

 

I was going to try writing the onomatopoeia for steel wheels sliding on track, but it came out looking like a bad word .  When did the JRH shacho kill himself, and what were the circumstances?

 

Rest assured I'll be watching for information about this trainset exiting the Niigata Transys facility.  We'll see what trucks it's got under it. :grin