My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[kvp]

For large surfaces like these a 1 cm thick cover would have been better held up by wooden boards from the back and the sides. Looking at your photos, you or anyone who wants to copy this solution could get away with a few sheets. First a large clear one on the front, that could slot into the two side boards. Then smaller ones on top, that could sit on the 3 sides (left, back, right) and the front clear cover. That would give them enough support and you could remove any of the top sheets by pulling it out horizontally and the front one by lifting it up after the horizontals have been removed. This solution assmumes the usage of background panels as supports. A harder to open, but more elegant version would be an upside down L shaped clear cover mounted on hinges that could open up like the trunk of a car. It could even be opened with a rope if it's two heavy.

 

ps: Personally any cover i would attempt have to hold more than my weight, so i won't break in case i fall over or someone leans against it.

[cteno4]

Jr500,

 

Very sorry to hear this.

 

It's going to be a loosing battle to do a anything with thicker plex and wood. To make a wood framed case structurally sound like this you need to make it pretty beefie and also think about some metal corner bracketing. The way you do these is to cut dado cuts in the wood framing and glue the plex in place with a caulking that can flex some (otherwise the stresses can pop the wood unless very heavy). This also makes the case instantly look a lot heavier and that front cross piece goes right across the normal field of view and will make you visually duck. To make it visually appealing you would need to make it a lot higher with wood framing.

 

You might rescue this project by having them glue 1cm or so square material on the inside of all joints. Sagging will require some cross pieces of plex like 5cm high maybe every 25 or so cm to keep it taught. And one at the end of each open box end.

 

Going to 1cm plex won't work as that will be so heavy (and expensive) that you will need a crew to get it in place. It will be heavy, many of our cases are only like 6-8 mm thick material and around the size of one of your ends and they are at min a 2 person job.

 

I didn't realize your space had walls on the end. Is there one at the other end? If there is you might think of mounting hinges on the back wall and just have 2 slabs of plex (6-8 mm with some cross bracing) that hinge down from the back wall for the top of the case and rest on some wood strips mounted along the side walls. Then just have a couple of front walls that pop into a groove in the layout top (piece of aluminum u channel and Velcro to the end of the wood strips on the side walls.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

you need some cross beams just like in real life.

[JR 500系]

Thanks guys for he inputs and comments!

 

Well, in order to rescue the project, we would definitely need supports, and a way to access the layout.

 

Hence, the old mayor was fired for a failed plan and a new one was elected.  :)

 

The new mayor suggested supports. The case will still be required, but around 8 numbers of supports, currently thought to be made of some transparent materials or even epoxy, that has high strength yet transparent. We do not wish to have ugly pillars to the sky in our town now, would we?  

 

The supports will be stuck at the 4 corners, with 2 more additional lengthwise as it is very long. Two additional supports will be stuck in the middle to support the centre. The plex sheets will then be dismantled and glued/ screwed directly and permanently to the supports. These will be 'dead' pieces of plex.  

 

The top plex will be the 'live' one, since having the top removable means easier access and also Godzilla proof, instead of front access. The top plex will be 'sitting' down on the 8 supports, and temporary screwed into place on 2 supports just to secure the top plex from moving.

 

Repeat for the other case on the RHS.

 

I hope this works, since then i'll only then have to carry the top plex sheet to work on the layout, which should be lighter and easier, or worst scenario, cut the top plex sheet into 2 for ease of carrying.

 

Meanwhile, the case would have to sit on the floor while materials are to be procured and actual onsite construction begins...

[katoftw]

the support can be made from the same material you have used. cut in 25mm widths and placed perpendicular to the roof of your box.

[cteno4]

Jr500

 

I think it would be wise to try and find someone in the area that has designed/built/worked with cases like this. You are really attempting a very large case here and addition you want it to come off easily. You are asking a huge amount here. Cases your size in exhibit work from plex that are meant to just sit there (ie not come apart very often) are a challenge and terribly expensive and careful work.

 

Not quite getting your description totally of the new design. Do you have a sketch?

 

Anything that comes apart will require lots of bracing and support as you won't have the box structure to hold it all together, and that poses new challenges. Sorry just done a lot of these over the years and worked with plex masters (one amazing old German guy in SF was an artist and loved to just go in his shop and watch him work!) and if there were a design to get around these issues they would have been used.

 

Another idea would be to have a top piece in one section thick enoug not to sag and have this hinged on the back wall and raise, lower and support by to small steel cables going up to the ceiling/back wall corner. Then have plex walls that can pop in for the sides and the front. But that top span of plex has to be thick and heavy to have no center support and not sag or have cross bracing.

 

The thickness plex you are using really is not heavy enough to support structure your size w.o a lot of bracing in all the seams and cross bracing. Plex strips at a perpendicular to the surface like 1" tall can work, but even then it will show visually some and you need to flame polish all edges to be really clear. Plex square stock can be used, but that gets expensive and is not much more support.

 

I doubt if any epoxies will work at all, they just won't take the stress and the transparencies between the two won't be exactly the same. Trying to form epoxies into structures is quite a bit of work and many places things can go wrong. I've doen lots of epoxy pouring for table surfaces and also creating clear rock models and it's really tricky stuff to work with.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Thanks Jeff!

 

It's almost over the Chinese New Year, so think it's time to push the case project along again. Will be posting more updates as we move along...

 

A quick question here, but didn't want to start a new thread just for this.

 

Any idea what is the add-on set for this?

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10065188

Kato 10-537 Series 223-2000 (First Edition) `New Rapid Service` (Shin-Kaisoku) (4-Car Set)

 

I was thinking if this set can be added on to the above set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10254312

Kato 10-1206 Series 223-6000 (Add-On 4-Car Set)

 

Although it's kinda wrong to put a 223-2000 with a 223-6000, but I cant seem to find a correct add-on set for the 10-537, unless of course another set of the 10-537 to add-on to itself... But that would be expensive... Thanks!

[katoftw]

The 10-1206 add on goes into the 10-1205 basic set to make it 8 cars.  They are almost the same, just the basic has a motor, and the add on does not.

 

But if the 10-537 set had the basic Kato lockable/unlockable couple on the front, then the sets could be coupled together.

Edited March 3, 2015 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

The 10-1206 add on goes into the 10-1205 basic set to make it 8 cars.  They are almost the same, just the basic has a motor, and the add on does not.

 

Thanks for the prompt response, but I was wondering if the 10-1205 can be coupled to the 10-537. The 10-537 is the 4-car motor set, and the 10-1205 is the 4-car non motor set. Wondering if the 2 can be coupled to make a 8-car set, though it seems wrong to couple a 223-2000 with a 223-6000

[katoftw]

I added some info to my post while you were typing yours.  Answers your question.

 

edit//  Just had a look at the 223-2000 add on set, 10-538.  Yes the has the coupler I was referring to, so you can couple it to just about any Kato EMU you choose. haha.

Edited March 3, 2015 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

I added some info to my post while you were typing yours.  Answers your question.

 

edit//  Just had a look at the 223-2000 add on set, 10-538.  Yes the has the coupler I was referring to, so you can couple it to just about any Kato EMU you choose. haha.

 

Perfect. Thanks for the info! I was actually looking more into 10-1206 as it is fairly cheaper and easily found.

 

So, a nice Sunday and my workers are finally here to fix up the proto type for the acrylic case.

 

A bad idea for the roof, hence it could not be completed. The sheets will be cut again to 420mm width pieces, hinged on both sides with a centre c-channel as a support. The C-channel will then be supported by these 'sky' pillars that are transparent with base plates. This way, the entire top can be opened like a box in any direction, perfect for building the layout proper.  

 

For now, the sketelon is out, with the channels to support the front and side faces. Pretty neat i'll say.

 

Cant wait for it for be finished so that I can finally build my layout!

 

Come to think of it, my progress of layout building is actually moving backwards... Now i'll have to strip out EVERYTHING and build them all over from scratch again...

[miyakoji]

Looking good JR500, although that's a weird penthouse on the Toyoko Inn.  Does that meet earthquake resistance standards?

[railsquid]

I imagine the weight of locomotives stored in the sheds below would add extra stability ;)

[cteno4]

Jr500,

 

Sounds like you have found a stable design! The C channel is probably the wisest direction in this case as it's going to give you the maximum stability and strenght while using the thinner plex, the most minimal visual intrusion, and allow it to all come apart easily. In this case that ability is critical to you being able to work on the layout easily. The totally clear seamed museum case would have been nice, but to work it would have end up weighing 100+kg, cost a fortune, and take 6 people to get on and off the layout! It's always trade offs in things like this but it looks like you have come up with a good compromise! I know it was a painful process, but you percerviered and won!

 

Now to the new layout!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Thanks Jeff for the encouraging words! I seriously hoped the cover will work as planned, having 6 numbers of hinged covers to open. Next I hope I can easily work on the layout with these covers. Having a layout on the table means I need to climb even higher to work on the layout. That's gotta be somewhat difficult.  

 

 

Looking good JR500, although that's a weird penthouse on the Toyoko Inn.  Does that meet earthquake resistance standards?

 

Spotted!

 

I had a good laugh there. Thanks!  :)

 

It was the previous temporary support to support the bending plex sheet cover from the previous design. Forgot to remove them for the pictures...  

[JR 500系]

More updates:

 

As we inch nearer to the much anticipated day of the travel to train land, we actually had quite a stand still for Takahashi town.

 

I've reset the timer back to around 5% or so? Everything is stripped down now, and awaiting the construction of the plex case that will add in a whole new dimension to my layout. Now to think of the difficulty in re-constructing the layout by needing to climb over the case...

 

It's sad, it's like almost starting all over again. But oh well, at least I get to renew my layout and now have a permanent solution to be able to run trains as and when I like without worrying the tracks are too dirty to run on!

[JR 500系]

I've designed a two level, two stations, single ramp folded dogbone layout that fits in 2800 x 1400 mm and has room for 10 trains up to 6 or 7 cars long. The ground station is in the front, the elevated station is in the back, with the yard next to the ground station, partially below the elevated tracks. Each station has 2 platforms with 4 tracks that allow the running of express and local trains 2 at a time or with analog block control or dcc up to 4 trains moving at the same time. The layout uses tomix tracks only, while leaving enough room in the center for a smaller tram and/or moving bus layout. (red: elevated, blue: ground, green: yard, white: ramp, faint: in tunnel)

 

 

 

Dear kvp san!

 

Once again I view at your layout and feel it's superbly done for my layout. I would like to deploy this, but I would like to ask if it is possible to make the overhead station into a 10 car station? I tried using the tracks but I couldn't get the curves into the 2800mm restriction, so I thought if it was possible to do away with the straight turnouts and use curve turnout instead, (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10029058) so that there is enough length for the 10 car station.  

 

Thanks for your assistance!

[kvp]

Unfortunately the curved turnouts are made for the R280 base curves and this layout uses much wider ones. Moving the right hand turnouts two cars to the right would make the lower one collide with the end of the loop. You can try to replace the R280 turnouts with the standard tomix long turnouts as they can be queezed in. This will give you a 10 car elevated station with standard Tomix platform spacing. You might have to do some sidewall removal on the elevated plates between the loop tracks and the turnout area of the station if they don't fit next to each other, but you might get lucky.

 

 

[velotrain]

I don't know how you're going to handle the scenery with tracks in a tunnel only a few inches away from yard tracks.  Actually, what is the reason for the tunnel, since it will be almost impossible for it not to seem artificial?

 

Also - in one direction, the elevated and ground level stations are only a half-circle of track apart, while the run is more reasonable in the other direction.

 

[ToniBabelony]

I don't know how you're going to handle the scenery with tracks in a tunnel only a few inches away from yard tracks. Actually, what is the reason for the tunnel, since it will be almost impossible for it not to seem artificial?

 

Plenty of examples to be found in Japan. At Kajigaya station on the Tokyu Denentoshi line, yard tracks even go into a tunnel partially:

 

http://file.tokyu.blog.shinobi.jp/IMGP5916.JPG

 

If you have space constraints, Japan almost always has real life examples how to deal with them.

[JR 500系]

Thank you kvp san for the information! Not sure what you mean, that means I have to get the longer turnout?

 

Can I know which is the one you are referring to?

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10072572

Fine Track Electric Points N-PL541-15 (F)

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10074000

Fine Track Electric Points N-PL280-30 (F)

 

 

Suddenly, a thought come to mind. Can we try mini turnout instead? This reduces the length in which the turnout is required:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10046033

Fine Track Mini Electric Points N-PR140-30(F)

 

Thanks for your help!

 

 

I don't know how you're going to handle the scenery with tracks in a tunnel only a few inches away from yard tracks.  Actually, what is the reason for the tunnel, since it will be almost impossible for it not to seem artificial?

 

Also - in one direction, the elevated and ground level stations are only a half-circle of track apart, while the run is more reasonable in the other direction.

 

 

Thanks for the headsup!

 

The tunnel was just indicative as I thought a nice tunnel into a mountain will look good; I mean almost all train layouts have tunnels, right? :)  

 

But I do understand the complexity and in fact the mountain at that location certainly looks weird. Perhaps will downsize the mountain into a small hill instead ~

 

Yap I reckon that too. A run is longer and the other is half a circle apart from each station. However, it seems impossible to place the 2 stations in such a way that both runs are of about the same length.... Perhaps a compromise to this situation. Also greed on my part of trying to place in a moving bus system into the layout hence the rationale of this design to in-cooperate this into the layout.

 

Any other ideas/ suggestions are very much welcomed! Thanks in advance!

[JR 500系]

That's nice Toni! But on a layout people wouldn't be able to see the trains parked in the yard then. It's a pity since the yard is often used to 'show-off' other train sets? :)

 

The mountain is still a pending thing.. If it can fit in that will be great but if it seems too fake then it will have to be forgo. In fact, i'm not really sure if i'm able to construct a nice looking mountain in the first place....   X_X 

[velotrain]

_{> The tunnel was just indicative as I thought a nice tunnel into a mountain will look good; I mean almost all train layouts have tunnels, right?}

 

_{Well, no.  I think a lot of people with train layouts feel compelled to have a tunnel.  Perhaps those modeling Japan want one because there are so many mountains.  However, most of them look very unrealistic to my eyes, because you often have a flat trainboard that a mountain suddenly / magically springs up from, with no real reason for it - sort of like the Lionel, etc. trainset tunnels that cover a curve in the corner of the layout, and are only long enough for one or two cars.  Tunnels look best when the layout has an undulating surface and the tunnel looks like a natural part of the landscape, vs. something just tacked on to have a tunnel.  In much of the rest of the world, layouts have tunnels when the layout is depicting a mountainous landscape, so there is a logical reason for the tunnel.}

 

_{OTOH - Toni's photo is interesting, and you might consider modeling that.  However, you would need to make at least that one yard track shorter, or everyone will see that it ends after going only 1" inside the tunnel.}

_{Toni - it looks like only the center track is stub-end?  The "central reversing track" that seems so popular in Japan, as with the Keihan lines.}

 

_{I looked at the video with the fabric layout cover, and those mountains are fairly well done.  However, for me there is a big problem on the right side where two groups of tracks enter the mountain at almost the same location, but at 90 degrees to each other.  It wouldn't have been so bad if they went in the tunnels sooner, so the fakey (flaky?) situation wasn't so obvious.} 

 

_{Besides the yard tracks, the tunnel ends right at the turnouts to the elevated station, and that wouldn't look very good.  I'll wait for Toni to find a proto photo of that in Japan ;-)}

_{I think I did see a photo of a line coming out of a tunnel, then a station, and then going back in another tunnel . . . . . . .}

 

 

_{> Yap I reckon that too. A run is longer and the other is half a circle apart from each station. However, it seems impossible to place the 2 stations in such a way that both runs are of about the same length....}

 

_{I'm not going to draw a trackplan, or work out all of the elevations, but there is an easy way to do that - in a very similar arrangement to this trackplan.}

 

_{If you look at the ground level station and the track going to the left of it, follow it around to the right end of the board.}

_{Then, instead of staying the inside tracks, make these tracks the ones that go to the elevated station.}

_{This way, you have the same distance of total run, but now your stations are positioned exactly halfway apart.}

 

_{However - the main lines cross each other 3 times vs. 2, which can make the level separation more difficult, and could force relocation of the yard.} 

_{I think it all depends on how much separation you want, and how long a grade you can live with to achieve it.}

 

[HantuBlauLOL]

P140 turnouts are not recommended for running shinkansens.

 

The P280 will take too much space, P541 is better imho.

[ToniBabelony]

OTOH - Toni's photo is interesting, and you might consider modeling that.  However, you would need to make at least that one yard track shorter, or everyone will see that it ends after going only 1" inside the tunnel.

_{Toni - it looks like only the center track is stub-end?  The "central reversing track" that seems so popular in Japan, as with the Keihan lines.}

 

_{I looked at the video with the fabric layout cover, and those mountains are fairly well done.  However, for me there is a big problem on the right side where two groups of tracks enter the mountain at almost the same location, but at 90 degrees to each other.  It wouldn't have been so bad if they went in the tunnels sooner, so the fakey (flaky?) situation wasn't so obvious.} 

 

_{Besides the yard tracks, the tunnel ends right at the turnouts to the elevated station, and that wouldn't look very good.  I'll wait for Toni to find a proto photo of that in Japan ;-)}

_{I think I did see a photo of a line coming out of a tunnel, then a station, and then going back in another tunnel . . . . . . .}

 

Yes, the centre track is a stub for reversing. At the time of construction, this track needn't be long, as the traffic was low. However, as traffic increased, trains got longer and tracks needed extensions at certain points. The southbound reversing track at Kajigaya is one such example. This means it's a half-tunnel with only one entrance/exit, rather than two.

 

Another solution for hiding tracks and unwanted curves is to simply build an elevated park or buildings over them. Shinjuku, Tōbu Asakusa, etc. are prime examples for this. Need more space for buildings? Just slam them over the tracks. More space for scenery and less conspicuous curves.

 

Also, how about using curved points, instead of regular straight ones: http://www.1999.co.jp/10073995 (Left) http://www.1999.co.jp/10073994 (Right). Save even more space.