My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[kvp]

The island platforms are the result of the compacter R280 turnouts, that allow one car longer trains. Imho there are no R280 turnouts with smaller spacing. The two middle tracks are straight throug tough, even with the island platforms. They also allow running locals while the expresses are standing at their platforms on the middle tracks. This allow up to 6 trains on the line (2 express, 4 local trains) without going to the yard.

 

For bus system crossings, the street tram tracks have grooves for bus system wires in them at different places and angles. You can make nice crossings from them. Just add bus stop tracks before the crossing, so the buses don't get run over.

[Eurostar25]

Hi JR500, do you mind sharing where you found the layout with the Narita express running through it?

 

I would be very interested in seeing any further photos or details if they are available.

 

Regards

[HantuBlauLOL]

Add some shunting branches on your yard perhaps? Or a mainline integrated point to point factories (such as container yard to a port)? Or even a whole new line for freight service using your Kato tracks..

[kvp]

The pictures are linked from a photobuket page:

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/legofan/library/?sort=3&page=1

 

And i think the original source might be a rakuten listing:

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-sazan/10011019/

 

The lister seem to be a layout builder:

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-sazan/c/0000000486/

(these are all previously sold layouts that can be ordered like a catalog)

[JR 500系]

The island platforms are the result of the compacter R280 turnouts, that allow one car longer trains. Imho there are no R280 turnouts with smaller spacing. The two middle tracks are straight throug tough, even with the island platforms. They also allow running locals while the expresses are standing at their platforms on the middle tracks. This allow up to 6 trains on the line (2 express, 4 local trains) without going to the yard.

 

For bus system crossings, the street tram tracks have grooves for bus system wires in them at different places and angles. You can make nice crossings from them. Just add bus stop tracks before the crossing, so the buses don't get run over.

 

Thanks kvp for the advice! It sounds good to use the R280, as they are slightly tighter and also shinkansen friendly. I believe Tomix doesn't have canted viaduct tracks? I'm looking at the Canted ground tracks but i'm not sure if Tomix made any canted viaduct tracks.

 

The plan looks good enough to give it a try!   :)

 

 

Hi JR500, do you mind sharing where you found the layout with the Narita express running through it?

 

I would be very interested in seeing any further photos or details if they are available.

 

Regards

 

Sure! kvp beat me to it! He is dead on with the link and the pictures!

 

 

Add some shunting branches on your yard perhaps? Or a mainline integrated point to point factories (such as container yard to a port)? Or even a whole new line for freight service using your Kato tracks..

 

Sorry my friend, i'm not going into the slippery slope of starting freight trains. No way. Commuter trains are already more than I can handle ....   X_X

 

 

The pictures are linked from a photobuket page:

http://s225.photobucket.com/user/legofan/library/?sort=3&page=1

 

And i think the original source might be a rakuten listing:

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-sazan/10011019/

 

The lister seem to be a layout builder:

http://item.rakuten.co.jp/auc-sazan/c/0000000486/

(these are all previously sold layouts that can be ordered like a catalog)

 

Dead-on my friend kvp! Thanks!  :)

[Eurostar25]

Thanks KVP and JR500, a great website full of good ideas!

 

Merry Christmas guys!

[Krackel Hopper]

I believe Tomix doesn't have canted viaduct tracks? I'm looking at the Canted ground tracks but i'm not sure if Tomix made any canted viaduct tracks.

Yes and no.. Tomix has gone to a modular design for their canted tracks.

 

Let's say you are using 280 canted curves.. for a viaduct you would need the following..

 

Tomix 1751 - Approach Track for wide track R280

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150042

 

Tomix 1741 - Canted Track for wide track R280

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150040

 

Tomix 3091 - bridge beam for wide track R280

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150049

 

Tomix 3081 - Walls for Wide Track inner R280

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150047

 

Tomix 3082 - Walls for wide track inner/outer R317/R280

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10150048

 

You could also use this setup (minus Tomix 3091) as ground level track that if fenced or walled in. The 'walls for wide track' kit includes 3 different styles of walls.

 

You can also double this up with R317 for a double track design.. in it's design you could actually stack all the wide track Tomix has to make a quad track..

 

The modular design is a little difficult to understand at first, but once you get it figured out it opens up a lot of potential for making unique looking track track on your layout. I'm no expert, but I've done a lot of looking at this track, so if you have any questions just ask.. Or Shoot me a PM

[JR 500系]

Thanks KVP and JR500, a great website full of good ideas!

 

Merry Christmas guys!

 

You're welcomed Eurostar25! The web site was initially introduced to me by a good friend at Loco1... That seller is good at making ready to use layouts, but ouch on the price... Merry Christmas to you too!

 

Thank you for that extensive information Krackel Hopper! I didn't know the canted tracks would also be used in overhead viaducts simply by using the bridge beams. Now I get the picture... But if I wanted canted curve tracks for the overhead viaduct, I would need to change the entire viaducts? I now have the older viaduct slab tracks from this set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10047042

 

But I think the newer canted tracks wouldn't look too compatible on the curves only without changing the entire layout...

 

I was planning to use these canted tracks on the ground level, together with the fences provided, as they look very good and already fenced up.

[Krackel Hopper]

But if I wanted canted curve tracks for the overhead viaduct, I would need to change the entire viaducts? I now have the older viaduct slab tracks from this set:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10047042

 

But I think the newer canted tracks wouldn't look too compatible on the curves only without changing the entire layout...

 

I was planning to use these canted tracks on the ground level, together with the fences provided, as they look very good and already fenced up.

I have a few pieces of Tomix track and just checked them. It is physically compatible, so you would only need to replace the curves.

 

I only see 3 issues with doing this.. and two are simply cosmetic..

 

1) The 'concrete walls' from the canted track match up nicely with the walls of the viaduct track. The only issue is they are a slightly different pattern, but still very similar style/design. Very close in color too so no painting required.

 

2) You'll be going from slab track straights to concrete tie curves. While there are many prototypical examples of track switching from slab to ties, I personally think it has a strange look when done on model layouts.. at least I am yet to see one that looks like a natural transition. Again, totally functional but maybe a cosmetic issue..?

 

3). Radius curves. The slab track you linked to, and much of the viaduct track comes in large radius curves. The slab track minimum is 428mm up to 539mm radius. Meanwhile the canted track goes from 280mm up to 391mm. Depending on your layout plans, you may need bigger curves.. or you'll need to add a straight track between two 90 degree curves to give you the added depth..

 

My personal opinion would be to stick with the slab track. Trains will look better on the larger radius curves than tighter radius canted track. Use the canted track for the ground level. It provides a better transition point between the slab & tie track.. just one random guys opinion..

[JR 500系]

Thank you Krackel Hopper!

 

That describes everything very well!

 

So I guess i'll remain the slab viaduct tracks then, and concentrate on the ground tracks using the canted tracks.

 

Hopping to start this project early, but the recent train sets in-flux have left the bank high and dry....

 

Also, 4 months away from the land of trains! Can't wait!

[katoftw]

just remember that you cannot put canted tracks next to points.  and also cannot have a S-bend like the tomix plan/layout is using canted tracks.  make sure you can still have you current track plan know these things.

Edited December 26, 2014 by katoftw

[JR 500系]

It is time to re-visit again my layout, which has been dormant for a LONG time... Being lazy and all of not cleaning the tracks, the track is now so dusty anything can't move...

 

Thing is, the re-vamp will take place soon, most likely using kvp's plan (thank you again!) with some modification.

 

An addition that can ease the lazy man I am to constantly clean the tracks is to create a acrylic sheet cover... So I went ahead and did just that!

 

I designed the cover so that it is 2 pieces, to cover the 2.8m length I need, and width of around 1.22m due to the fact that acrylic sheets come in 8' x 4' sizes so the width needs to be shorter a little. The acrylic sheets are, well, not so cheap, that I discovered but still well, ok, thinking the fact that I need to clean the tracks FAR lesser times and I can have trains sitting IN the layout itself, ready to run anytime when guests visit.

 

Will be taking pictures soon once the entire cover is up. Once cover is done up, it is time to properly step into designing and building the layout. My trains haven't been running for a LONG time and they need to stretch their legs soon!

 

KVP, can I ask if the layout you supplied earlier on, the one that will sit into the 2800 x 1400 layout, be able to sit into a 2800 x 1225mm instead? Thanks!  :) 

[Nornicle]

lovely layout - and kvp you are the mvp of designing layouts!

 

do you have a website where you present them all? that would be amazing.

[kvp]

 

can I ask if the layout you supplied earlier on, the one that will sit into the 2800 x 1400 layout, be able to sit into a 2800 x 1225mm instead? 

I'll redesign it, but i have find the original scarm file first. (it should be on one of the computers i'm using, but don't remember which one) But from a guess it might fit without much of a redesign. You just have to leave less empty space on the top and bottom and if it still don't fit, change one of the 4 track stations into a 2 track one with side platforms. (each gray square should be 10 cm on the drawing, so you can measure sizes by counting them)

 

 

do you have a website where you present them all? that would be amazing.

I don't have one, but it might be a good idea to collect them here on the forum under a single personal topic. For that, i'll have to collect them from the various posts.

Edited January 21, 2015 by kvp

[cteno4]

Jr500,

 

That is a very big expanse of plex. Unless you use pretty thick plex it will sag with time with out having quite a bit of cross bracing. Thicker plex also gets heavy fast to try and lift it off. Are the sides of your lid also plex? If so you need to do very smooth cuts to get good bonding surfaces to glue the joints well. Also on a large cover like this that is to be picked up you want to thing about doing some joint bracing as the wrack that you can create when two people lift it (one person can't do that big a lift) could easily pop joints or pop the plex near a joint where pressure could concentrate. You could do a hybrid with thin 1/8" acrylic and use an internal bracing framework of like 1"X1" wood. Would not be totally clear cover, but might be cheaper and stronger for a lighter weight version.

 

Sorry don't mean to sound like a downer on the idea, but I've done a lot of acrylic case work over the years on museum exhibit projects and this is a really big case top!

 

Are you going to build this yourself or have a professional acrylic shop do it? It ain't going to be cheap. Working with plex is very different than other materials and pretty unique. You need to be careful when cutting to use the proper blades or it shreds and always wear good eye and face protection as it can shatter if caught in the saw!

 

What is your plan as to how to lift the cover off the layout? To be good protection from dust it will need to seal down to the layout well, which means lifting up and over the top of the whole layout. Also remeber once off the layout you will need to store the cover somewhere.

 

What a out the idea of a big light plastic tarp to drape over the layout. You could do 4-8 strings up from the edges and center to some small eyescrews in the ceiling to just pull it up and away from the layout. Some clips (just use binder clips at the end of the strings to grab the plastic sheeting) to pull the cover off easily to take outside to shake off or just replace with like 2-3mil plastic film from a big roll. We use to cover the jrm layout at night when we had it up at some shows overnight this way using 2mil tarps we gently laid over the layout and the building just held it up. Also a few dowels in strategic places around the layout (that just slipped into hidden holes in the layout board) could act as tent posts to keep the plastic film up and away from buildings. Could also make it out of heavier plastic film with sides just cut up and tape the vertical edges and this lifts off or could be pulled to the ceiling with strings. Or the other idea with the horizontal curtain tha pulled to the sides.

 

Also getting a good air purifier for the room and keeping the door closed will also help get rid of a lot of the dust (an amazing amount really).

 

Just thing there may be some simpler solutions that the huge plex cover that would cost a lot less and be less trouble and be more flexible and not shrink your layout to fit under the max plex size. Sorry again don't mean to be a downer on the idea, just want to make sure what you are getting yourself into creating a horizontal plex case this size.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Thank you Jeff for a through explanation!

 

Definitely some useful pointers that I can take note. 

 

Actually, I've designed the cover to be in 2 pieces, to avoid letting it become too large to handle. The acrylic sheet is 3mm thick, and having a box like I've designed is around 10-12 kg according to the supplier, so that's cool to move around.

 

Looked into the issue of sagging and indeed the supplier has said it will, unless I've to get a thicker 5mm material, which translate to higher cost and heavier cover. As a compromise, a column will be made in both covers to support the centre, so that it will not sag. The column might pose a problem especially with the layout, but I think I can manage to move around it.

 

The cloth is a feasible (and cheaper) idea, but thing is it doesn't look as nice as the cover. Anchoring points to the wall for drapes wouldn't work too as the layout is sitting in the living room, hence presentation is something to look at. Also, being in the living room means exposure to more dust since the windows are open to air the flat, and also no doors can be shut to keep the dust out.

 

Looking at all these factors I think the acrylic might be my best option yet. I've ordered them and it does cost a fair bit, but if it works according to plan it will be really nice and I can have a functional layout 24/7. it can also be used to keep kid-zillas out when visitors visit, and the cover will only be removed to either clean tracks, do the layout itself, or to change train sets. The yard will come in handy in this situation since it can hold a few trains ready to be run immediately.

 

The sheets will be laser-cut now and glued with acrylic glue, and it should be ready by the weekend. I'll post some pictures of it once they're ready ~

 

 

I'll redesign it, but i have find the original scarm file first. (it should be on one of the computers i'm using, but don't remember which one) But from a guess it might fit without much of a redesign. You just have to leave less empty space on the top and bottom and if it still don't fit, change one of the 4 track stations into a 2 track one with side platforms. (each gray square should be 10 cm on the drawing, so you can measure sizes by counting them)

 

Thank you kvp! If the squares are 10mm each then I think it can work, or worse scenario I can compromise to have side platforms instead of island ones so that the gap is smaller and can eventually squeeze in. The overhead station is more or less already fixed so I cannot change that. Speaking of which, it has come to a time whereby I have to cut up a platform to make the existing into a 9-car platform, since fixing an entire platform means it will be too long before it hits the turnouts and having a 8-car platform (existing situation) looks like shinkansen drivers have to walk on the ground beyond the platform....

[cteno4]

Jr,

 

Did the fabricator suggest a couple of small cross braces from side to side ip under the top? I'd this was like 30mm x 3mm plex stock with one in the middle of each half and one across the middle seam on each half, this might help the eventual sag. Won't look as nice as a clear box, but sagging or cracking would not be fun!

 

A couple of posts would help and be best if each side could have one like quarter the way in from the center to give the best overall support on each. These could be removable, just need spots they can rest on the layout (and have structural support) and hace a pin on the bottom of the column that would slip into a hole in the layout.

 

Hace they engineered in any handles to help pick it up with? This is always an issue with cases as we can't hace them showing at all so larger cases can be tough to pull off! We use those pump suction cups to make handles, but with plex you need to be sure the disc and plex are nice and clean as a small bit of grit can get ground into the plex while you suck it on. Be careful when lifting and moving around not to wrack the case (ie push corner to corner) as this is usually the way a joint can pop or crack some plex. Plex is odd stuff, at first it's great as it will flex and act as a more forgiving material, then bam it pops!

 

Nice they have a laser cutter as this gives great edges for easier polishing and bonding! A nice plex case will look great in the living room. You are right the curtain or plastic tarp would not look good there at all!

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

 

OT: I think I'm so grumpy about plex cases is having had to deal with them in exhibits it's become a pain! Actually over the years we have really strived to remove as much case work like this as possible in exhibits, just looks so much nicer, is easier, and actually get less vandalism. I think the last thing is due to if you respect your audience they will respect you back. with plex over everything you are saying first off you don't trust them, so you get crap back. Last big exhibit I had 8 42" flat screen displays out in public touch area along with 4 24" touch screens. The museum has a lot if inner city school groups coming thru and the city was screaming all this stuff had to be armored to the hilt. I looked at doing plex cases for the screens, but a whole list of issues, being ugly and looking like a prison at the top. So we went for broke and did not do them, just did very cosmetic concealment of controls or cabling (kid could have gotten past them in 5 seconds) and for the touch screens I just floated 24" apple Cinema Displays on custom metal 1.5" square tubes on a vesa mount. Going on 6 years now and not one bit of vandalism! Many artifacts require cases, but where you can get away w.o them the better all around!

[JR 500系]

Thanks Jeff!

 

I should be looking to receive the completed plex covers very soon, perhaps tomorrow. The columns HAVE to be there, cause, like Jeff mentioned, the top sags... The central columns to support the top cover is transparent too so I reckon that can be easily hid away...

 

Once the cover is in, it's time to swing into building proper. It has been a REALLY long time the trains had their runs...

 

Can I ask kvp humbly if it is possible to draw out the layout you provided earlier on, into something like the Tomix supplied one; whereby the track pieces and viaduct piers are indicated so that I can  start seeing which parts I need to procure to start the ball rolling? Thank you so much in advance!

[kvp]

 

if it is possible to draw out the layout you provided earlier on, into something like the Tomix supplied one; whereby the track pieces and viaduct piers are indicated so that I can start seeing which parts I need to procure 

The problem is that the program i'm using (Scarm) doesn't differentiate between viaduct and ground pieces, so all the drawings have track geometry data only. The mapping from geometry to ground and viaduct pieces are not too complex, but not provided by scarm. The mapping can be done by hand though, so it's possible to make a list of pieces, but there is no automation for it. Also, for the various pieces, you have multiple options for track type (wood, concrete, slab, wide track, steet, etc), so mapping between those also have to be done. Imho the easiest way would be to start with the plan and a Tomix track catalog (like the one on the website) and map everything piece by piece. Imho it can be done with a few hours of work.

 

For example, the ramp (gray) can be built with Tomix 1168/1169 pieces, with a normal ramp pier set. The elevated loop is also a 1163/1168 with 1061/1062 or 1066/1067 as straight pieces. (afaik you had to remove the top station to make it fit, so no turnouts there) The piers under them can be any of the 3 types available, choose what you like. You could add a nice double track bridge to go over some of the tracks.

 

The station is mostly made up of R280 turnouts and a few C280-15 curved pieces, S72.5 and normal straights. You can choose any type of track here and for the yard.

 

For the ground loop, you might want to add a few S33 tram track pieces with wire added to route any bus system paths across your tracks. For the curves, i would just use 1163 pieces without the elevated part (the tracks should be unscrewable from the viaduct) and maybe pc tracks the for the straight sections. (or anything you like) It's a creative process, where decide how you want your layout to look and choose the right track style for that style.

 

ps: I think i sent you the original scarm file or at least a high resolution render, where the geometry on each piece is visible. Sadly the forum software doesn't allow scarm files to be posted here and larger images are resized.

Edited January 30, 2015 by kvp

[katoftw]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/polytuf-7pc-furniture-setting-cover-classic-post-leg-_p3190994

 

What about something like this? Make a removable frame and this cover can sit on top of the frame.

[JR 500系]

http://www.bunnings.com.au/polytuf-7pc-furniture-setting-cover-classic-post-leg-_p3190994

 

What about something like this? Make a removable frame and this cover can sit on top of the frame.

 

Thanks katoftw!

 

Actually, the plex has already been completed. Please see below picture. I'm arranging transport to bring the thing home from my workshop and it cant sit in my car cause it's too huge and kinda flimsy... I'm starting to worry how I am going to remove and lift the cover up on my own! It can be easily done with 2 person, and I think the workshop did a good job of gluing them together, just have to be careful not to lift the wrong sections of the case... But as one person, it's very difficult to lift it up and over the layout! .....  

 

Now I think if I made a boo -boo...

 

The weight is ok, just that the size is too large, and forcefully lifting it on my own might result in it breaking apart... Now here's a challenge...

[cteno4]

Jr500,

 

Yeah that the rub with big cases, moving them is a bitch! They look nice!

 

You might want to talk to the shop and see about putting some square or triangular bracing pieces along the inside seams. Also a maybe 1-2" high piece across the back wall that is open. this should help it with more wrack strength. On the center strip you could also fo 3 pins along the outside edge of one side and mating holes on the other. Then they would just slide together (only like 1-2 cm) and lock together. This may help the tops from sagging in the long run.

 

Then show them how it is to be lifted off for them to mount some acrylic or metal handles (acrylic could just be trapezoid stock attached to the short face so you can grab it) I think on the top about 40% in from the front and then another on the front face center about 30% up from the bottom edge. This should give you two good lifting points and you can use the top handle to tip the case back towards you then when up at a 45 lift it up and away from the layout. Or slide it straight out and tip off. Don't want to start lifting until the bulk of the case mass is off the layout

 

Other alternative is to get a couple of glass suction handles. These work well, but you do need to make sure on plex that both the plex surface and the suction cup are very clean as it can scratch the plex. Also as plex gets scratched these can loose their adhesion ability

 

Without some good handle./grab points you will have a big issue lifting this with one person and even with two it's going to be tricky dropping it in place on the layout as you have to lift from both sides.

 

One thing with handles is make sure not to set the case down on a handle. This would cause pressure in the center areas and bow things. Worth messing up the clear top to make sure it is sound and won't bow and you can safely and easily lift it.

 

You might also think of having some small plex strips glued along the top 3 joint edges of one case just inside the joint line. These would act as a retainer ledge so you could stack the two case on top of each other (if exactly the same size it should work well as all the force will go along the side walls) and if you bump into it the top case would not slide easily off. Could just be small bits of plex rod sticking up like 1cm every 20cm arounf the three edges to be less visible. Or I guess just stand them up on the open ends.

 

The problem is I think even with handles cases of this size are going to be hard to put on/off the layout w.o two people safely. On museum cases we always have a number of people lifting with a clear plan and a couple of spotters if something starts to slip and to call out clearances. Even then there can be some boo boos now and then! Hard part is that final fine scale movement to drop it in place. We would clamp guide blocks in place so we could just go up agains that in like a corner and then just drop it down along the blocks (faced with felt!)

 

Good luck with this. Talk to the plex guys at the shop, they may have some ideas as well. They may also have some local clients who have a lot of cases like this and find out their experiences and ideas.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

yeah if the scratch protection is romoved and a few 25mm triangles are guled in, it'll be fine.

[beakaboy]

Only just caught up with this thread. I remembered a very clever technique for covering a layout seen on you tube and finally found it here....

A bit late for JR500, but might be worth considering for anyone else contemplating dust protection, etc.

[JR 500系]

Only just caught up with this thread. I remembered a very clever technique for covering a layout seen on you tube and finally found it here

 

Thanks beakaboy!

 

Actually I saw that video before, but a curtain in the living room wouldn't look so nice... My layout is sitting right in a corner of the living room hence I wanted a better looking yet permanent idea...

 

 

Bad boo-boo I made..

 

The cases were shipped in today with help of my workers and we attempted to place one on the layout. Please see the pictures.

 

After-thoughts:

 

1) It looks really good since it's clear and everything can be seen clearly.

 

 

Now for the bad news:

 

 

 

The corners are starting to come out no matter how much glue was applied. It came out when we were trying to place the cover on the layout....

 

 

It wraps REALLY badly, so much so I had to temporary use my tallest building as a support....

 

 

That's a joint here, but that's because we tried to save the amount of acrylic sheets I had to purchase, hence the 'wastages' were put to good use.

 

 

Actually, it's REALLY clear. maybe because it's still new. I like this part ~

 

Now, after serious studies, I can NEVER get the case out by myself without breaking it, which means I need to come up with another solution. So much for the acrylic case cover...

 

I have some ideas from here:

 

1) Construct a framework for the cover. It could be made up of wood since the acrylic sheet is kinda light so not much serious strength is required.

 

2) The frame work, which needs to be constructed onsite, will be connected with beams to support the acrylic sheet.

 

3) The acrylic sheets will be glued to the wooden frame so that it has good support.

 

4) Either a sliding front door or a top-opening hatch door can then be integrated into the case for access. I will then build up the layout using these openings. I'm in high favour of the top-opening since it will be VERY difficult to build a layout using just the front openings, and the sliding front doors are harder to construct. Also, the sliding doors may pose another issue of godzillas opening the doors from the front. With the opening on top, it's a sure that they cannot access to open it.

 

Bad idea gluing them, but I guess I wouldn't know unless I try....