My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[JR 500系]

A short video of the recently imported Kiha-85 of Takahashi town:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-te7enheybs&feature=youtu.be

[JR 500系]

The progress is SLOW... yes very slow...

 

It has always been buying more and more trains but actually not building this! Hate myself for this...

 

Anyhow, it's time to re-look at the layout.

 

The Kato ground tracks are all gone. Now we can start linking the elevated and the ground Tomix tracks!

 

Was looking at a few plans and saw this layout from a good friend's recommendation:

 

This Looks really good!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like how the ground becomes elevated and then crosses each other. The layout is stated to be 2100mm x 900mm, which is ideal for my table. Now all I wish to know is the exact track plan. I wish for a long enough layout for the trains to run around a fair bit, yet at the same time not too congested as I wish to have the moving bus system in the middle as a bustling city.

 

I initially had this idea from Tomix :

 

 

I like this as it has two types of station, and a fair bit to run around, and also some space in the centre and a nice rail yard.

 

Any comments/ suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Densha]

I personally prefer the first layout, the second one is too symmetrical and unnatural for my tastes.

[railsquid]

Ditto.

 

What I'm doing in a similar space - when not buying trains, which has become an unfortunate addiction, is - after realising I'm not running a main-line railway - to go for two separat single-line loops (the inner one of which is a "folded dogbone"), so it doesn't look like I'm running a kind of Shinkansen Scalectrix track. But that's my own personal taste.

[cteno4]

Grades are always a challenge, especially with sectional track. It can be hard on the trains as well if the grade is steep. One of our club members did a series of home layouts about this size with various grades (3-5% the usual folks end up with on small layouts) and he did have a larger number of mechanical issues with his motor cars than I've normally seen. Top layout does seem to spread the grade out more and has a more interesting feel to it.

 

Storage tracks are nice but on a small layout they end up taking up a huge amount of real estate! Might think of having a track along the front of the layout where you could run a train onto a spur along the edge that on a small strip of wood that lifts off so you could lift it off the layout and put them on shelves on the wall or just easier to put trains on/off the track off the layout. Also could do a 18"x4-5' roll around yard that could L off the layout and be detached and moved to a more convent spot in the room when not playing trains.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[ozman2009]

My preference would be the first one too, although I do see that there is less room for scenic development. If I were to build that one I'd be looking at adding a third or fourth track to the station.

[cteno4]

Jr500,

 

Forgot you will need to design in a nice big boulevard along the front edge of the layout to show off all those busses you have!

 

Could also do the big elevated expressway across the layout like curt's but that would be mainly long haul busses, trucks and cars.

 

http://japanrailmodelers.org/photos/kurtslayout/pages/page_69.html

 

With this much track and having a lot of elevated track most of your scenery will need to be more vertical and sort of hide some of the tracks as well like the chap has done on that first one. Also need to get cleaver about using the space under the elevated tracks for some scenery or making sme of it an embankment to maybe elevate the scenery on a corner up closer to track level to mix things up. Also a hillside in a back corner like on that one helps break things up a lot.

 

It's thinking vertical more when you have a lot of track like this. That first layout does that well with the bridge in the center area and the line of tall buildings to break things up well track wise. Extra curves also give a bit more length to the run and lowers the grade a little.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[katoftw]

I like both of them.  They both have their pros and cons.

 

As Jeff said, the extra viaducts in the made version means finding ground level scenery a bit of a task.  The plan version really is planned with visual perspective in mind as all the higher tracks are at the back.

 

The made version with a bridge x-over will make it impossible to have buses running arounds in the centre.  And even if you figure it out to work.  They'll all be hidden by the extra viaducts.  So original plan would be better if wanting buses in the middle.

 

If I was to make the layout, I'd probably make it a little longer.  The stations are only good for 4 and 6 car trains.  I'd personally like it a little longer so the station/s can be 30cm longer.

 

And I might actually find a way to put a single line loop around the outside of most of the tracks to run a 1/2/3 car DMU units or private railway train.  Would mean making it 100cm deep.

 

Like everything in modelling, space vs time vs money vs wife.

[JR 500系]

Thanks guys for all the constructive comments!

 

@ Densha - Yap I really like the 1st one too, it seems more complex for a nice run~

 

@Railsquid - I have the same bad addiction as you! It's always easy to buy these beautiful trains, even if they're not high on the wish list right ?

 

@ Jeff - Thanks! The viaduct is a really nice method to showcase the buses, but at the same time it might block out some views though... Curt did a good job combining them together! Gradients are nice as the trains look really good travelling up and down, but I guess care has to be taken not to run the motor too long up gradients. The L cross-over is a great idea but I need a space for that. I was thinking to make 2 clear Acrylic sheet boxes that will cover the entire layout, mainly to block out dust and also curious kids, so the L cross-over to a yard for placing trains is a nice idea as I will not need then to remove the cover often once the layout is more or less than. Need application for permit though to the Home minister for expansion of living room space... 

 

@ katoftw - Thanks! Good discussion over the two, and it is true the 2nd one has more space for scenry and moving bus system in the centre. It also has 2 stations, one ground and one elevated, for variety. I will extend the elevated on though to 9-car length (my existing is 8-car) in the background to accommodate the shinkansens (my typical bullet train lengths are about 8 cars), but keep the ground level station to normal 6-car lengths for more space on the ground for other sceneries. The additional 3rd loop on the outside is a great idea to add on a commuter line that meets at the ground station!

 

Just for accurate comparison purposes, anyone knows the exact track plan that the 1st one uses? Somehow I cant connect how the train will move from ground to elevated then pass over....   X_X

[katoftw]

 

this would be close to the plans.

[kvp]

 

Just for accurate comparison purposes, anyone knows the exact track plan that the 1st one uses? Somehow I cant connect how the train will move from ground to elevated then pass over.... X_X

The first one is a folded dogbone. It has a ballon loop on the ground level and a ballon loop on the high level. The trick is that it uses double track all the way, so the common neck is not double, but quadruple tracked. This common part is what forms the ramps. The storage yard comes off from the ground level loop. The trick is that both loops are completly flat, so the only non flat part is the 4 track ramp on the right.

Edited December 20, 2014 by kvp

[JR 500系]

Thank you katoftw for the layout!

 

For the first layout, will this will mean that there would be two ends with quadrant tracks? That would mean quite a lot of space taken up, as compared with the 2nd layout by Tomix which 'shares' the same space with one on the ground and the other elevated.

 

This makes me more inclined to look at the 2nd layout by Tomix for the following reasons:

 

1) There is a ready made track plan

2) 2 stations, one elevated, one ground

3) shares same space at the ends bends using one ground and one elevated

4) More centre space for moving bus system

5) Elevated station is at the rear of the layout, meaning more can be seen at the front

 

The first layout however, has the following advantages which I like too:

 

1) Seems to run longer than the 2nd one?

2) Beautiful cross-over in the centre with elevated and ground tracks

 

 

Is there a way to combine best of both worlds?  :)

[railsquid]

I've adopted the "folded dogbone" variant for my layout, albeit single-track only; on the current 1800mm x 900mm baseboard it gives quite a long running loop (about 9m total IIRC). Compared to a simple oval it's also less obvious how it fits together, especially if you add some tunnels, making the train appear to pop up in unexpected places. The downside are gradients on curves, but mechanically it seems to work pretty well with most of my trains apart from a couple of the older British locos.

 

Here's a video:

 

Edited December 20, 2014 by railsquid

[JR 500系]

Nice! Thanks for sharing railsquid!

 

Seems like the dogbone gives a good run, but at the expense of layout. The centre portion is taken up by the tracks and the bridge..

 

Maybe If I modify from the Tomix layout to include a cross-over bridge like a dogbone?

[katoftw]

Thank you katoftw for the layout!

 

For the first layout, will this will mean that there would be two ends with quadrant tracks? That would mean quite a lot of space taken up, as compared with the 2nd layout by Tomix which 'shares' the same space with one on the ground and the other elevated.

 

This makes me more inclined to look at the 2nd layout by Tomix for the following reasons:

 

1) There is a ready made track plan

2) 2 stations, one elevated, one ground

3) shares same space at the ends bends using one ground and one elevated

4) More centre space for moving bus system

5) Elevated station is at the rear of the layout, meaning more can be seen at the front

 

The first layout however, has the following advantages which I like too:

 

1) Seems to run longer than the 2nd one?

2) Beautiful cross-over in the centre with elevated and ground tracks

 

 

Is there a way to combine best of both worlds?  :)

the crossover one really only adds 10-20cm of extra running length.

[kvp]

Actually the first and second plans have almost the same track length. The first is a folded dogbone, while the second is a double loop. The modified second is a double loop with a twisted center loop. The dogbone layout is more simple, since the top and bottom parts are exactly the same, only mirrored and the quadruple tracked ramp is just a half circle. You can have two stations on it, a ground level in the front and an elevated at the back. I've highlighted the tracks, red is the elevated level, blue is the ground level, green is the yard coming off from the ground level loop. The two tunnels each hide the end of one loop. (i can draw a trackplan too but it's very simple)

 

 

[JR 500系]

Thanks kvp!

 

That helped to explain a lot!

 

Now I see the layouts are more or less the same, except for an additional cross-over. I'm a big fan for the cross-over, but it would also mean a lot of space will be taken in the centre for that and the moving bus system will have problems.

 

I'm guessing i'll be sticking more to the Tomix one then...

 

Furthermore, thinking of erecting an additional overhead bridge over the elevated tracks just for mimicking an elevated expressway, and the buses can sit there ~

[Densha]

But you now just want 2 double tracks instead of the quadruple tracks you had first? Not bad methinks, but I hope you don't forget some sidings. (and a depot would be cool, but that's just me :) )

[JR 500系]

Yap Densha... The quadrant loops that I have, 2 elevated and 2 ground, made running 4 trains at the same time fun, but it really IS boring. The trains just kept running round and round... Really not that fun to watch and gets boring quickly...

 

I thought I needed some variety so decided to have gradients and such on the layout at the expense of the 2 ground tracks... Besides, the ground tracks were Kato and couldn't support constant lighting feature plus needs to step-down voltage so I guess they need to go...

 

The sidings would be for a yard, much like the layout Tomix suggested, but thinking if the siding for the yard should be at the front; i.e. behind the ground station, or at the rear; i.e. in front of the elevated station. Then again, having the yard in front of the elevated station does feel pretty strange, right?

 

If space and money permits, a third loop will be added on the ground, just a loop and no gradients, to provide even further fun!  :)

[katoftw]

Yap Densha... The quadrant loops that I have, 2 elevated and 2 ground, made running 4 trains at the same time fun, but it really IS boring. The trains just kept running round and round... Really not that fun to watch and gets boring quickly...

I dont think this would be any different.  You still have roundy roundy on the above layouts.  But just takes longer to do a loop compared to your old layout.

 

If you dont want boring.  The you are gonna need to add in a few extra.  Train yards that are dual entry points and extra platforms on the ground level station so that a passing siding can be added.

 

See this link:- http://www.katomodels.com/unitrackplan/plan_N2_83.shtml

 

Ignore the fact it is Kato, but see how they have incorperated a 3rd loop by having links at the station.  And many additional items like freight yards and tunnels could be added to the single line 3rd loop.  whatever you wanna make it.  Or by powering it and running a train through them, you are creating a big crossover, so it would be a giant figure of 8.  Or you can have 3 trains running at once.

Edited December 22, 2014 by katoftw

[cteno4]

Actually folded dog bones are good at getting away from the roundy roundy feel in a small space. It makes is very much harder to figure out the train path than a loop and the longer path helps as well. Jr500 has limited space and the dog bone does help make the best of a small space.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

Nice! Thanks katoftw!

 

But the layout is at 1800mm depth... I only have around 1200mm depth. But it's something nice to consider having a 3rd rail running all over the place and eventually a large cross-over. The cross-over bridge is a great place to take photographs!

 

Thanks Jeff! U sum it up pretty accurately. Having only around 2800 x 1200 I have to make the best of it. I could try to persuade the home minister into allowing an additional table in front so that it extends to 1800, but I reckon that would be difficult as it would cause a bit of space restrain having the last table almost at our bedroom door!

Edited December 22, 2014 by JR500 のぞみ

[katoftw]

it was just an example to show you what to do with a single 3rd loop.  you can just make it go around the outside of your current plan without the extra making it 1800 depth.

[kvp]

I've designed a two level, two stations, single ramp folded dogbone layout that fits in 2800 x 1400 mm and has room for 10 trains up to 6 or 7 cars long. The ground station is in the front, the elevated station is in the back, with the yard next to the ground station, partially below the elevated tracks. Each station has 2 platforms with 4 tracks that allow the running of express and local trains 2 at a time or with analog block control or dcc up to 4 trains moving at the same time. The layout uses tomix tracks only, while leaving enough room in the center for a smaller tram and/or moving bus layout. (red: elevated, blue: ground, green: yard, white: ramp, faint: in tunnel)

 

 

[JR 500系]

Thanks for the track plan kvp! Much appreciated!

 

Will study in depth the track plan... Might make some changes like having one-sided platforms instead of island platforms type, so that the express trains can zoom past fast...

 

Also, can the moving bus system move pass through tracks? It will be great if they can pass over the tracks so that they can reach the ground station AND the elevated station. This video comes to mind:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhofZCtu7Wg

 

Wished they were available for purchase.....