My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[Pauljag900]

The reason I suggested disconnecting the switches/points is basically to eliminate them,if they re disconnected and joined with a normal piece of track and the train runs all the way around the loop then it s not a connection problem and the issue is with the points/switches,if it stops on the loop with them removed then there will be a bad connection or missing joiner where the train stops .But at least it will narrow it down as to what is causing the issue,points/switches,power feed or connection. Once it s  identified the fix is easy,mmmm,😂😂👍

[kvp]

1 hour ago, Pauljag900 said:

The reason I suggested disconnecting the switches/points is basically to eliminate them,if they re disconnected and joined with a normal piece of track and the train runs all the way around the loop then it s not a connection problem and the issue is with the points/switches,if it stops on the loop with them removed then there will be a bad connection or missing joiner where the train stops .But at least it will narrow it down as to what is causing the issue,points/switches,power feed or connection. Once it s  identified the fix is easy,mmmm,😂😂👍

Quite the opposite. If you bridge the intentional break created by the switches/points/turnouts, any dicontinuity will get power from both directions and it would be impossible to find it. The switches/points/turnouts are working fine as they are supposed to cut power towards/from the not selected direction. The power could go around the whole double loop but does not for some reason.

 

So if you put a Tomix or Kato turnout into a piece of track, then it will act as an isolator at the tailing end if the route is not selected. Kato ones only isolate the frog side rail, but Tomix ones are fully power routing and intentionally isolate on both rails.

 

ps: While there is no crossover in the plan, the photos do have one. Tomix crossovers isolate the track, so both loops are cut into two power blocks, a total of 4 blocks. (Kato crossovers only isolate on the frog side rail and between loops)

Edited November 14, 2017 by kvp

[Pauljag900]

If the point is removed and replaced with normal track then yes it would get power from both sides and would work ok.

if the point is connected and set to run in the same direction as the fixed track then it should also run ok as the power is directed along the same route? If it does nt then it would indicate that there is a connection problem,either in the track piece or the point itself.

i think we re just miss understanding what each of us is trying to say,and unfortunately I only have a few Tomix points,most of mine are Kato.

i have very little knowledge of tomix track but was just trying to offer a logical soloution to be honest mate by using a process of elimination.

 

[kvp]

42 minutes ago, Pauljag900 said:

If the point is removed and replaced with normal track then yes it would get power from both sides and would work ok.

if the point is connected and set to run in the same direction as the fixed track then it should also run ok as the power is directed along the same route? If it does nt then it would indicate that there is a connection problem,either in the track piece or the point itself.

i think we re just miss understanding what each of us is trying to say,and unfortunately I only have a few Tomix points,most of mine are Kato.

i have very little knowledge of tomix track but was just trying to offer a logical soloution to be honest mate by using a process of elimination.

 

I think you might forgot to read the original problem description. The points do work fine when the route is set towards the feeder. When they are set to a different route, the yard and the track at the blade tip (points) side of the points (turnouts) don't get any power. This is normal. The cause is probably a break in the loop the long way around. If it's the crossover, then adding feeders to both sides of the crossover would work.

[Pauljag900]

Well I think we both think it s the same thing,a break in the loop somewhere or a faulty point.the problem from the video is that you can t see where on the track the train actually stops.It when he switches it the power goes off but the train is still on the main track and has nt reached the point,to me that would suggest a break in the main loop somewhere.

as far as I know Sammy had an issue with the double crossover last week so has removed it for now,unless he s already replaced it.

[kvp]

1 hour ago, Pauljag900 said:

Well I think we both think it s the same thing,a break in the loop somewhere or a faulty point.the problem from the video is that you can t see where on the track the train actually stops.It when he switches it the power goes off but the train is still on the main track and has nt reached the point,to me that would suggest a break in the main loop somewhere.

as far as I know Sammy had an issue with the double crossover last week so has removed it for now,unless he s already replaced it.

The way to find the fault is to switch the switch towards the yard  to cut power on the short route and start running in the opposite direction from the feeder. The place where the train stops is where the fault is. You can remove the switch, but do not replace it with anything.

[inobu]

You have a few problems.

   
Running the wire under the track makes it uneven. This causes the motor car to loose contact

on one side completely. As momentum carries the train over the wire it makes contact again an continues on. The flickering is the train teetering over the hump

 

The remedy is to put an elevated base board to hold the track above the table base keeping the wires from the track laying flat and unimpeded.

 

The other issue is you have created power gates. It is similar to OR and NAND gates.

 

 

In the gate example. Having the feeders on the Right side will not allow power through to input A

 

Placing the feeder on the left side "Input" the output side will get power based on which direction the switch is thrown.

 

You want power placed before the switch so it can "Power route" through out the layout.

 

You must strategically place your feeders in place to achieve full power access. 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

[inobu]

Looking again....

 

Place the track on a board with standoffs on the bottom. Place eyelets in four areas where you can lift the board out of the frame.

 

With the track on a board you can manage the wire below and feed the track where ever you want.

 

No wires to hide.

 

You can replace your crossover and place power around it to get it going.

Your table is a display the layout is on the boards. You place the layout in the display.

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

[JR 500系]

Thank you guys for the valuable input! Much appreciated!

 

I have gotten a branching cord and extra feeder to try and solve this issue... I think the power is not enough too to supply such a long loop, though my previous layout that was much larger didn't have this issue, but I guess this wouldn't hurt to try...

 

On ‎15‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:45 AM, inobu said:

You have a few problems.

   
Running the wire under the track makes it uneven. This causes the motor car to loose contact

on one side completely. As momentum carries the train over the wire it makes contact again an continues on. The flickering is the train teetering over the hump

 

The remedy is to put an elevated base board to hold the track above the table base keeping the wires from the track laying flat and unimpeded.

 

The other issue is you have created power gates. It is similar to OR and NAND gates.

 

 

In the gate example. Having the feeders on the Right side will not allow power through to input A

 

Placing the feeder on the left side "Input" the output side will get power based on which direction the switch is thrown.

 

You want power placed before the switch so it can "Power route" through out the layout.

 

You must strategically place your feeders in place to achieve full power access. 

 

Inobu

 

 

 

 

 

Wow I learned quite a lot from this, thank you so much!

 

I thought about the wires lying below the tracks too, and the way the bump was created when the wire ran below the track... then I suddenly saw this new release:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10483601

 

So I can route all the wires and channel them towards there, and form some sort of a covert cover to cover up all these wires...

 

The idea about the board is good, but it would mean two minor issues; the height will become smaller, and/ or the board itself will be too heavy to lift by myself, being so long and all... Though I can make the board into 2 or 3 pieces to make it smaller, but the layout connections have an issue when trying to lift them up, i.e. we need to separate the connections to remove piece 1 from piece 2 and so on...

 

I thought about foam below the layout too, but having tried that previously, I had to always vacuum up the bits of foam when I dig the foam to lie the cables...

 

I will try it out with the new branching cord and additional feeder, and the grinder bridge to lay the wires below the tracks, and report back the findings... I do hope it can be resolved...

 

Thanks again for all the input!

[JR 500系]

While waiting for the power branch cord and a new feeder, we fondle around with the bus and tram... seems like we will have a tiny winy layout right in front of the station!

 

A little video...

 

 

[Pauljag900]

46 minutes ago, JR 500系 said:

While waiting for the power branch cord and a new feeder, we fondle around with the bus and tram... seems like we will have a tiny winy layout right in front of the station!

 

A little video...

 

 

   Hey Sammy,

you think yours is small? Ha ha,I mocked this up yesterday,not sure if I m going to put it in yet but can you do me a favour and tell me something,the bus stop comes with 4 pieces of track for the bus stop but the markings are only on 3 of them,I can only get 3 straight pieces in on mine So was wondering if you think it would work ok on 3 pieces of straight instead of four?

my decision hangs on your reply😂😂😂😂

paul

[Pauljag900]

From what I can remember and from what I ve researched today it seems the bus stop works over the three pieces with the stop start magnets either side of the stop itself,the other piece is for the magnet that makes it speed up or slow down which I’m not to worried about.So first job tomorrow ,as I ve enough track here,is to fit the basic oval bus track to the inside of the tram track.

if anybody has a motorised bus spare I d be very intrested in buying it👍👍😂😂

[JR 500系]

6 hours ago, Pauljag900 said:

From what I can remember and from what I ve researched today it seems the bus stop works over the three pieces with the stop start magnets either side of the stop itself,the other piece is for the magnet that makes it speed up or slow down which I’m not to worried about.So first job tomorrow ,as I ve enough track here,is to fit the basic oval bus track to the inside of the tram track.

if anybody has a motorised bus spare I d be very intrested in buying it👍👍😂😂

 

Hi Paul yes you got it correct! The bus stop is only spanning across 3 pieces and it should work fine... That's some delicate things with the moving bus system and it tends to be tempermental, especially the cross junction pieces...

 

Which motorized bus spare do you require, the motor chassis itself? There are 3 types, BM01, BM02 and BM03, which do you require? I find having spare bus tires are important too since the bus tires always worn out pretty fast especially when it runs a lot... 

[Pauljag900]

Hi Sammy,

thanks buddy, I was nt quite sure how it worked exactly as it s a while since I had one.

All I ve got is that basic oval of track,I sold the rest a couple of years ago so I need a bus chassis and a body shell.i need a complete bus so not bothered which one really,I also need to get a bus stop but they re easily available,if I can t get them used I ll just buy a basic set after Xmas.

I was talking to serotta last week about this,it was either sqeeze an extra row of buildings in or a bus lane and I d got it out the day before to try and help me make up my mind,I still was nt sure until I saw yours,then thought why not.

I did actually fit the track in yesterday,I just need to re position the building lights now.

If I change my mind I ve kept the foam I cut out so it ll be easy to replace back to how it was.

paul

[JR 500系]

Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the shinkansen. This is the Kagayaki 569 LOOP line bound for... well....

 

 

 

We finally get to run some shinkansens in the new layout!

[JR 500系]

So with the new power feeder cord and branch cord in, we tried to resolve what seems to be an never-ending problem to the yard power supply...

 

 

 

Seemingly, it only works on the line with the additional power cord feeder supply, and the other yard lines remain unpowered... does this mean I need to get the same number of power cords for all the lines in the yard? That would mean a serious amount of power feeds and I cant even imagine how the branch cords will be....

 

Help required! Appreciate your response!

 

 

[Pauljag900]

Sammy, can you put up your track plan and th,e exact location of your powerfeeds again? And where the train stops?

[JR 500系]

Sure. Sorry I bet it's much easier to understand with pictures...

 

The train doesn't stop and moves into the yard with the secondary power supply attached, or onto the main line 1, but it does stop whenever a switch is thrown that is not connected to the secondary power supply, i.e. the 3 point turnout  

 

 

 

It doesn't seem that the 3 point turnout is the problem, as whenever I switch the secondary power supply location, the train moves exactly where the secondary power supply is located and not any where else....

 

I'm puzzled as to if I need all secondary power supply for my yards in this case...

Edited December 11, 2017 by JR 500系

[Densha]

How do you get trains from the yard tracks onto the outer loop?

[Kiha66]

Sounds to me like the 3 way switch isn't routing power, could you take it out and test it?  Or switch it for a two way that you know works and see if that fixes it?  

[JR 500系]

3 minutes ago, Densha said:

How do you get trains from the yard tracks onto the outer loop?

 

Haha that was the previous issue... the dual cross over... Now that it's gone, it makes it impossible to travel from the yard to Line 2 on the outside... I might need to try to see if the Dual corss over works again...

 

2 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

Sounds to me like the 3 way switch isn't routing power, could you take it out and test it?  Or switch it for a two way that you know works and see if that fixes it?  

 

I did try it once, but it still doesn't deliver power... perhaps I will try it again later...

 

It seems power is always an issue on my layout..  always missing it somewhere... be it turnouts or switches... 

[Pauljag900]

49 minutes ago, Kiha66 said:

Sounds to me like the 3 way switch isn't routing power, could you take it out and test it?  Or switch it for a two way that you know works and see if that fixes it?  

Sammy,this is what I said last time,I just can t see it being anything else other than this 3 way turnout.If it works ok on the line with the secondary feed on the other side of the turnout that would suggest it is the 3way as the power is being fed to both sides of the turnout so you re not relying on the power passing through the turnout,does that make sense buddy?

the first thing I would do is check all the fishplates/track connectors,make sure you have none missing.

i ll do you a diagram,give me a few minutes mate

[Kiha66]

Yeah, I'd even pull it out and test it alone.  Maybe attach a section of track to each leg, then try running a train through it with the power supplied from the single end.  

                                 /---------

Power here   ------《----------  see if these work

                                 \--------

[Pauljag900]

Sammy,can you take it out and set it up on a table like this,more or less what kiha has just said.

try each line but when the train stops do nt touch it and turn you power on full then flick the point control switches a few times and see if anything happens.Do this on all the three lines.

if this does nt work,connect the extra feed to each line one at a time,

Then test each line again,if this works,and all the connectors are in place then it s definitely the three way point that’s the problem.

it would be best if you can set it up on a table like this so you know there s nothing else causing the problem.At this point we re just trying to confirm if it’s the three way point.

let me know how you get on Sammy,

hope it helps.

paul

[Kiha66]

Heh, that's a much clearer drawing, thanks paul.