My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[katoftw]

Room or table.  I'd know which I'd prefer.

[splifdfx]

JR500, can't you build a "permanent" shelf layout on a wall of the living room, perhaps integrating it nicely within the furniture ?
You seem to have a lot of place south of the dining table, enough to build even something like an L (or a U if the "sc" can be closed off - what is that by the way ?).
But perhaps it's already used by Mrs. stuff ?

[railsquid]

I imagine that space is the entrance to the flat ;)

[Das Steinkopf]

Rather than pulling the layout out from the side how about lowering it to floor level when you need to work on it, that way you don't have to worry about having flap doors on the side, plus if you had to pull it out from the side to work on you would need either a counterweight or collapsible legs to support the layout and stop the table from toppling over.

[Martijn Meerts]

Am I the only one wondering why a small-ish place like that has 2 bathrooms? :)

[railsquid]

Am I the only one wondering why a small-ish place like that has 2 bathrooms? :)

 

Nope, I was going to comment but thought it was none of my business :P

 

Anyway it seems the planning of JR 500系's new apartment will be decided by JNS forum members now. Do we have a consensus for the wallpaper? ;)

Edited September 21, 2016 by railsquid

[splifdfx]

I imagine that space is the entrance to the flat ;)

 

Ohh this would make sense. But where's the genkan ?

Still, there's room on this wall ! :)

 

Or rip out the smaller bathroom to convert it to a layout room !  :angel5:

[kvp]

Ok, trivial space for a fold down layout would be on the outside of the kitchen wall, towards the enterance. It could be built as a train display case, that folds down as the leg of the layout.

 

ps: Anything placed below or in front of the display case (like chairs, bookcases, any furniture, etc.) will remain safely under it, so there is almost no wasted space in the stowed state and the layout is safely covered, while the train/book case will hide it. Controls could be mounted on the side of the layout and on top of the train/book case and will automatically get stowed away with the layout. Only two hinge pairs and a hook (or two) on top is required to hold it in the stowed position.

Edited September 21, 2016 by kvp

[velotrain]

 

 

 (or a U if the "sc" can be closed off - what is that by the way ?).

 

 

storage closet?

 

based on the location, for coats and umbrellas, etc.

[cteno4]

Ok I see. Just need to make sure your thighs go under 65cm with the chairs you plan to use. I would mock it up if you can with the chairs you plan to use and then build up on top of the table to 80cm and see how comfortable it is to eat at that height. I've eaten at some high tables and also in short chairs (a shorter friend actually got chairs lowered so their feet would not swing) and it's a tad awkward feeling like a little kid at the adult table. You will use it to eat at all the time, so needs to be comfortable!

 

One issue in the construction will be there needs to be cross supports between the legs along the long direction (short end can use the glass ends as cross support on the short ends) where the layout will pull out. This will take out some of your vertical layout space.

 

I had a large metal legged glass ding room table like this and it had a two metal supports the long way just under the glass and one lower in the center. This think was to give some support to the glass in the center as it does sag a little if it's thinner..

 

Perhaps see if you can find a commercial table that works (but legs may not be long enough) and then the craftsman can attach the layout drawer under it to the legs. Building the whole table like this could get expensive to be sound and pretty. Glass walls around the layout could just be thinner acrylic (get the edges polished nice) to just drop in and lift out easily to work and get trains in on a plank, etc.

 

Bennie of starting with a commercial table is it will be well engineered as a table and can look pretty (since its in the center of the living space making it look as cool as possible will help and good for your wife!). Then all you have to do is build and hang the layout drawer off the legs. Metal frame for the drawer will probably be best for strength to size. There is some excellent structural extruded aluminum structural material that has really nice faces and corner joint connectors that can hold a lot of weight but still look nice. There are exotic drawer slides that can go each way but I've not seen them 1m long. Should do just fine if the frame or a finger of it sticking out just slides in some channel stock at each end that's attached to the legs. you can also get away with a long structural rib under the layout drawer in the center that could be like 5cm tall if needed for extra support long ways. This could be a box channel to run major wiring trunks thru as well.

 

You can also just have a folding table you can pull the layout drawer out and plop it on the table for big construction stuff. If you make some wood slats just the right height on top of table to slide right on it.

 

Plank idea for a few tracks of train storage could clip onto the side of the layout to stick out or just be the two replaceable yard tracks along the side.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[velotrain]

Haha I do hope so too my friend... but unfortunately, it is the room not to be touched ~  :)

 

We had a long discussion and the Mrs actually wanted me to have a layout in the 2nd room, but it cant be permanent like the current one... Hence I decided all together not to touch that room at all...

 

"not to be touched" makes it sound like a mystery or secret.  Do you really need a second bedroom?  Do you often have overnight guests?  If not so often, you could get a comfortable sleep sofa for the living space - I know they're available, as a Polish friend has one imported from Europe.  Instead of pulling out, the back slides down to the level of the seat part.  Both sections have a smooth flat surface, so there is no hardware to break down and make things unpleasant to lie on - no springs poking in your back.

 

If your wife has ideas for that room, you could make it a shared hobby room and each use half of it.  What else would you use the space for?  It seems silly to have it available and not make use of it, when the dining table layout presents so many difficulties - which may or may not be solvable.

 

I agree that you should be thinking modules, or possibly a sectional layout - which would allow the appearance of a permanent layout, but could be disassembled the next time you move.  In any event, I would suggest around the walls, even if in just half of the room, as it provides a longer run than a table-type layout and a more realistic track layout-appearance.  If you took the half of the room away from the door, you could use a duck-under so there would be continuous track - and the clothes storage wouldn't interfere (although it does reduce the amount of space available to your wife.  A layout - of any sort, in the second bedroom could be larger, more satisfying, and much easier to operate than one built into the dining table.  I suspect the table shown in the apartment plan is much smaller than 1 x 2 meters, as that is quite a bit larger than a standard table for four people.

 

 

P.S. - Why does the A/C require so much space?

Edited September 21, 2016 by velotrain

[Das Steinkopf]

 P.S. - Why does the A/C require so much space?

You will probably find that the area is actually a balcony and the air conditioners are placed out there, plus living in Singapore air conditioners are a necessity not a luxury it is stinking hot there and that is coming from an Australians perspective.

[JR 500系]

Oh wow... thanks for all the comments... I'll try to explain further what I have in mind:

 

Firstly, yes that 2nd room is empty, but is required to still be empty. Any layout will not be allowed in there so we dropped that idea.. yes it might be silly to others why we are not using that room at the moment but we do have plans for that in near future. I then looked at the living room... looking at that size of the living room, it didn't look like I will have any space for a large layout...

 

Secondly, the idea of the dinning table came because it would look good in the living room and a special piece of furniture... Also, in the event I move later, the table can be easily moved and hence easily integrated to the new place, and can even be a second layout if space permits for a large permanent layout in the future place...

 

In Singapore, like Das has mentioned, is hot & humid at the same time... if the heat doesn't get to you, the humidity will, making you sweat like a pig easily, hence air-con is a necessity. That darn Air-Con ledge is also in the payable land area, but yet a space which you cannot utilise, as regulations states here nothing is to be placed on that ledge! It's not exactly a balcony, but only for the air-con compressors. The regulations require the space to be free at all times for air-con maintenance and also as a means of fire escape in emergencies....

 

The dinning table measurements of 2m x 1m was scaled off from the drawing above, hence it would be accurate. Besides, a 2m long table is good enough for 4 persons to eat comfortable so I guess that's alright. The leg space allowance is the thing I am more worried about, I will measure more dinning tables to see what is the average depth of leg allowance space around. If there is an issue with the allowance, I think we can lower the chair a little to make more space for the legs... Just a little, so it wouldn't look like a kid in an adult table ~  :)

[kvp]

If it's a table i would go with the standard sizes and build within the tolerances of the average table frame.

 

You could still consider a fold down layout mounted to a wall as it would need the smallest space when stowed.

 

Imho modular layouts are hard to store and may require more space than available.

[katoftw]

Make a modular layout that is easily movable.  Move the layout around when the baby comes.

[cteno4]

One thing that just occurred to me is that if you build your own table I don't think you can use the glass top as a structural unit as its brittle. This means I don't think you can attach the legs and undercarriage to the glass, I think at your table size (unless you use really thick glass) the glass will need to jsut rest on top of the whole structure under it. Shifting of legs if attached to the glass could cause torque that may pop it.

 

I say this as I looked at using a 6'x3' hunk of glass as a roof over our front door as you see it in many architectural situations. I found out it had to be really thick due to it potentially getting tweaked due to any shifting In the house. Weight was then ridiculous. When I looked closer at the panels I had seen locally I saw how thick they were! Ended up with acrylic with an small metal frame supports!

 

Jeff

[Drunkenclam]

We build revolving doors. The all glass ones are self supporting. All on the glass walls. But the roof glass is 2x12mm toughened glass stuck together. The segments are heavy. Takes 3 guys to move each door leaf and 4 guys to move the roof. Strong but very heavy. Not recommended for something you have to move.

 

Also the 10mm glass doors. Put them on a tressel at each end and watch how much they bow and flex.

[kvp]

When we were talking about a glass table, i just assumed it will either have a wooden frame with a glass insert or a wooden frame between the legs with 4 adhesive glass support pads above the legs.

If kids are involved, i would say a rounded corner wooden frame with a lexan insert is better. This also allows the legs to be mounted under the horizontal frame surrounding the transparent center.

Edited September 22, 2016 by kvp

[beakaboy]

this layout has been featured on here before, but I happened to see this update recently. might be relevant in relation to this topic.

http://wrightsville.trainsanddioramas.com/2016/08/5th-home-for-wrightsville-port.html

[cteno4]

Lexan does not work well for a presentation surface like this as it easily scratches and it also bows when used horizontally (500 found this in his plex case) without lots structural support. Also have to be careful putting hot stuff down on it (yes people do this, sister in law put a warm pot on a tall trivet on our dining room table and it was enough to fog the acrylic finish on the wood...).

 

The big glass dining room table I had and all the ones I've moved (helped way to many friends move over the decades) all has the glass sit on top of a freestanding frame so that torque was not put on the glass and the support points were evenly spaced around the glass (not out at the 4 corners). They just used rubber pads and the glass weight and friction kept it from sliding.

 

I've had and seen smaller glass tables (like coffee tables and small computer tables) that had the glass bolted into the whole structure as a structural piece, but these were much smaller. Like clam noted it can be done, but requires much heavier glass. Glass is becoming more of s structural material and getting stronger these days so maybe there are ways to use it structurally here, but you will need to find someone who works with it like that. When I found the shop locally to run my front door roof project by they set me straight on some issues for sure!

 

This is why retrofitting a premade table may be a lot safer and easier as all this is worked out and the added weight would be going onto the bottom support structure. Even then it is a bit of weight to add to the system, so keeping the layout light would be best. Hence why I suggested much lighter acrylic for the side walls. Frame could probably be wood like 30-35mm high X 24mm thick of a nice hard wood (strength and pretty as you see this). The cut a slot in the inside the layout base can go in (like 5mm luan ply) and a slot along the top to drop the plex sides into. Then there is space under the ply and frame for some cross bracing and wiring. Panels of thin ultraboard of foam core could Velcro into the open areas underneath the frame and bracing structure to cover up wiring and present a smooth surface to the thighs. The whole layout just needs a channel track mounted to the table at each end for the layout end edges to slide in. Keep the layout table as one separate removable piece and only add the minimal to the table to avoid messing up its look and feel of the table. Also keeps construction minimal and not super specialized work as any decent carpenter could construct a sturdy and pretty thin layout board like this and come up with the U channel slides and mounting them to the table. Spend your money on getting a really nice sturdy but graceful glass table that will take the layout nicely.

 

Visually the problem will be to make the layout layer look very clean and light and just floating under the glass and the table structure something floating around it cleanly, elegantly, and minimally. If it turns into one big mass visually it's going to really look and feel heavy and it being the central focus of the room you don't want that and you want folks to focus on the layout not the massive table it's in. This is the trouble with a lot of the coffee table train layouts where the table mass ends up totally overpowering the layout sunken within it. The more that layout layer floats and having the clear sides the more that layout is what is going to pop and feel bigger, not shrunken.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

The layout building has stopped, but the planning have not...

 

Here's the latest plan, revised from the plan KVP san has so kindly assisted to produce:

 

 

Reds are for overhead viaducts, green for inclines/ declines, and white are ground level tracks.

 

I extended the yard and to place more trains for display, and also added one more side track at the bottom to park another train in the station... Love all those curve turnouts reduce the space required for turning out into a sliding!

 

The entire layout measures less than 2m x 1m, which is the size of the outer blue box and also the proposed dinning table.

 

Now to look into the mechanics of the table itself...

[JR 500系]

With a heavy heart and an undying spirit... We dismantled Takahashi today... in 4 hours, almost one year of planning and building gone....

 

 

 

 

 

Sad truly...

 

 

 

But looking on the bright side, a new page of building is about to begin soon!

 

 

[Pauljag900]

I feel for you sammy,I was the same when I had to take mine down mate,but on the up side,we get to do it all over again and no waiting for stuff to arrive! Ha ha,you ll soon be back up and running buddy,

Paul

And mine took less than yours,ha ha

[cteno4]

Sammy,

 

You will have your Phoenix!

 

Jeff

[JR 500系]

While browsing around and stepping into the unchartered territory of trams, I discover how versatile Tomix tracks can be with these!

 

 

 

 

Basically, it seems this set (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10104805) comes with parts to convert normal tomix fine tracks to tram tracks, and come with tram stop parts! This is mighty interesting as it will allow more versatility in planning rather than the restrictive tram parts tomix offer... talk about an easy and configurative system! Tomix really rocks on this, together with its wide track system!