My Japanese N Scale Diorama - NEW Dinning Table Layout

[kvp]

 

I don't know how you're going to handle the scenery with tracks in a tunnel only a few inches away from yard tracks. Actually, what is the reason for the tunnel, since it will be almost impossible for it not to seem artificial?

 

Actually when i designed it, i had the Yokosuka area in mind (especially the Keikyu lines, see a cab video for reference), where some tracks are going through very steep hills and many times parts of the hills have concrete retention walls and buildings immediately on top and below with the elevated train going through the cliff face between them. In this case it might be easier to build if the top yard track gets shortened by 140mm or you can put a maintenance building over the end of the track flush with the retention wall, where the track can secretly continue another 140-150 mm into the mountain. This would result in a 3 open and 1 partially covered track storage/maintenance yard. In this case, the base of the hill can go from the low level tunnel enterances to the high level ones in a straight or gently curving line. A very steep hill is still recommended with a retention wall at the bumpers. This is very common in Japan. The top can be filled with buildings very much like a normal urban area in Japan would look like. (so you have buildings next to, above and even below the tracks)

 

The reason behind the hill is to brake up the two loops. Essentially you get a layout with two double track lines coming out of the mountain with one of them having a station, a ramp to the higher elevation, the same line having another station, the other tracks continue undisturbed and branch off and both going into the mountains at different places again. Now the fact that these two lines are actually the same is part of the compromise, but otherwise they look as a commuter line and a separate express/freight line going through a hilly urban area.

 

ps: I think the last picture i posted has the R541-15 turnouts labeled. The tightest turnouts most trains can go through are the R280 ones (2/3rd of Tomix turnouts are this type) and the long ones in the Tomix line are the R541-15-s. R140-s are only for trams and short car length interurban trains.

[JR 500系]

Interesting. So it's time to actually build the layout haha ~~

 

Besides that, there's another weird project I started. From my recent deliveries comes a weird A0266 from MA, a 200 series renewal colour 4-car add-on set that was being listed as A2660 a 213 series 2-car basic set. Yes it's a major mistake and I worked it out with the seller, but to save trouble of sending the item back I decided to keep it, since I have the Tomix 92852 200 series Renewal Colour 6-car basic set.

 

Hence a weird project started to 'connect' a MA set with a Tomix set. While i'm not exactly a rivet counter, this is certainly a weird combination as we can easily see the difference of detailing between the two makers... It is quite coincidental though that the Tomix has the cars 1, 2, 3, 8, 9 & 10 as their basic and the MA has cars 3, 4, 5 & 6 as the 4-car add-on. No harm with having 2 units of car number 3, I can just paste over a car number decal to make it a car 7 since i'm not exactly that fussy with the consists.  

 

There are no diaphragms in the MA though unlike the Tomix, so that could look bad when they connect...

 

We will need to change the couplers on the MA to electrical ones that the Tomix has so we can connect together.

 

We're starting out on the project and hope to see some interesting finishes to this! What do you guys think?  :)

 

[JR 500系]

Heck i'm fondling with parts more than I'm actually building the layout... Haha ~

 

Here's a new test.

 

I REALLY like the Kato platforms; they look really realistic with that bright yellow line and tiling on the floor, together with that highly detailed roofing. However, my tracks are Tomix and I would really like to use Kato platforms. Hence I did a little test, using Tomix tracks and Kato platforms (Yes again, for those who might have viewed my previous layout I was using Kato tracks and Tomix platform).

 

Results are, well quite satisfactory.

 

The height of the platform is alright, with the carriage door just at the platform floor. I tried with both normal trains and shinkansen and both are fine.

 

Hence, the overhead station platforms will remain the same (TOMIX) and will receive extensions to a 10 car length, while the ground ones should be receiving Kato One-sided platforms on the 'Up' direction and island platform on the 'Down' direction so that the platform can be easily seen on the outside.

 

Cool!

[kvp]

The height difference is around 2 mm, so that's not that much. If you actually put 2 mm paper/styrene under the Tomix tracks, then it would be perfect. If you would look from the side, completly level (instead of from a slight down angle), then you would notice the 2 mm step down from the platform towards the car, which is in fact should be a slight 0.5 mm up step. The problem is easily noticable if you look between the end of the car and the end of the platform exactly from the level of the doors/platform.

[Robert46]

Hence a weird project started to 'connect' a MA set with a Tomix set. While i'm not exactly a rivet counter, this is certainly a weird combination as we can easily see the difference of detailing between the two makers... It is quite coincidental though that the Tomix has the cars 1, 2, 3, 8, 9 & 10 as their basic and the MA has cars 3, 4, 5 & 6 as the 4-car add-on. No harm with having 2 units of car number 3, I can just paste over a car number decal to make it a car 7 since i'm not exactly that fussy with the consists.  

 

There are no diaphragms in the MA though unlike the Tomix, so that could look bad when they connect...

 

We will need to change the couplers on the MA to electrical ones that the Tomix has so we can connect together.

 

Hi Mr. Jr 500..

 

Very nice thread about your long journey building your layout... Love to read the stuff.. :)

 

About mixing two different manufacturers, it's like a wild project for the rivet counters. Personally, I can be a relatively rivet counter too, but only depends on the case. For some of my favorite models, I could be that one.

 

But I just shared my opinion.. basically it seems okay to connect the tomix and micro ace 200 series as both have same appearance from the side body, the color and the details is classified similar IMO. The only issue, apart from converting the coupler, is obviously the diaphragms. From my side, some weird solutions will be using less stiff sponge/foam to be attached/glued to micro ace car and paint that sponge/foam. the size can be measured using tomix diaphragm.. but perhaps it shouldn't touch the tomix's as it might limit the movement during turnings.. give a small gap like 1.5 or 2 mm.. still, it will touch the tomix's when turning but more gently..

 

Or crazy idea is to cut the micro ace body to place a diaphragm like tomix.. maybe a pla plate / plastic base board can be shaped into tomix like or even using the spare part from Tomix 200 and use it to replace the already cut part on Microace.. but then you should design a mechanical part like tomix did so it could work well.  believed this is not easy, but if someone can do this job will be amazing..

 

That's just my opinion.. perhaps others have better opinion and easier to apply... :)

[kvp]

Third option is to remove the Tomix diaphragms and replace them with the same car ends as the MicroAce one, maybe made out of styrene. They can be held in place with a dab of white glue or by just friction. This would give the train a nice uniform look, with all modifications reversible on the Tomix cars, as the removed parts can be reinstalled. Upgrading to the Tomix coupler is also possible for all cars. This would result in good running characteristics with a classic old school look for all car connections.

[Robert46]

Third option is to remove the Tomix diaphragms and replace them with the same car ends as the MicroAce one, maybe made out of styrene. They can be held in place with a dab of white glue or by just friction. This would give the train a nice uniform look, with all modifications reversible on the Tomix cars, as the removed parts can be reinstalled. Upgrading to the Tomix coupler is also possible for all cars. This would result in good running characteristics with a classic old school look for all car connections.

 

Hi kvp,

 

That's a good one, sure it's easier to follow.. :) however, personally I like the tomix diaphragms system, looks more realistic..  so I would opt to keep it on the models. But for this case yours is better I am sure.. :)

[HantuBlauLOL]

Also power coupler >>>>>> MA coupler.

[JR 500系]

Thanks guys! Actually I have completed the 200 series, but the power coupler isn't working very well with each other between the MA model and the Tomix one. I think it's some difference in height. I'll post more on this later.

 

Meanwhile, much progress was made (FINALLY) to the layout. The Cover is now complete! Insufficient materials caused some top segments to be un-supported, but I think it will do fine for now.

 

The sides are bolted to the table, and only the top can be removed, in 6 segment pieces. Each piece is light, like around 5-6 kg or so, so I can easily lift up and work on the layout itself. It can also be easily placed back on.

 

Due to the lack of supports in between pieces, some had gaps. I certainly hope these gaps wouldn't cause the downfall of the layout due to dust ingress....

 

Now, to finally build the layout itself. Wo Ha! 

[JR 500系]

Hi guys quick question here I have and don't wish to start a new thread just for this...

 

Please see below video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsgU6WpOq50

 

So the recent ばんえつ物語号 with its beautiful end observation carriages have attracted my eyes, but I couldn't bear to pay so much to get the Tomix 98933 SL special set (although the C57 is a nice beauty...) So I tried to get another loco to pull this instead. A search on youtube gave a result called DLばんえつ物語号. It seems to be pulled by a DE10-1700 or DE10-1680.

 

Question is, I tried to find a Tomix or MA equivalent of the DE10-1700 or DE10-1680 that would be correct to haul this train carriages but I couldn't find any... Was there any released in the first place? This would assist me to decide if I would get the just the Carriages instead.Thanks for the information!  :)

Edited June 18, 2015 by JR 500系

[katoftw]

It is just a random DE10 being used.  You'll not find a number specific model.  It is not like it is a Imperial loco or the first built version.

 

It is good though to have a few different engine to pull along passenger cars.  Allows variety in your fleet.

 

I'm aiming for the Takasaki depot fleet, EF65-501, Ef64-1001, D51-498, DD51-842 and C61-20 to pull the blue series 12 coaches and brown oha/suhafu/ohani coaches.

[JR 500系]

Thanks katoftw.

 

Anyhow, I took the plunge and got the Tomix 98933 instead. It is by far the most expensive single set that I have ever bought, but oh well I like the observation cars and the SL looks great so...

 

Back to the drawing board for the layout, using kvp's plan:

 

 

We are close to actually getting this done in real tracks, just trying to place in a 10 car station for the overhead station at the rear. Trying out Anyrail for the first time, it's quite ok but I couldn't get the dimensions to show. Here's something I tried to do:

 

 

The top shows the first plan, to use C280 & C317 curves for the sides with turnouts to make it 4 platforms. Cool, they fit. The 6 sections of straights are 280 straights, so it is roughly around 12 car length since 280 is the length of 1 platform and roughly the length of 2 cars (shinkansens longer) Then I tried using curve turnouts instead to try and shorten the entire length (the overall length is still within 2800mm) and yes they look much better!  

 

The problem now is with finding the curve turnouts. They seem to be sold out in most places...

[railsquid]

The problem now is with finding the curve turnouts. They seem to be sold out in most places...

 

Based on my observation from recent trawls of model shops in and around Tokyo, some Tomix points (turnouts) seem to be getting a bit thin on the ground. I was having problems finding 540mm-radius ones in one direction (can't remember which) recently. It seems like shops are running through their stock and Tomix aren't producing at the moment.

[JR 500系]

Based on my observation from recent trawls of model shops in and around Tokyo, some Tomix points (turnouts) seem to be getting a bit thin on the ground. I was having problems finding 540mm-radius ones in one direction (can't remember which) recently. It seems like shops are running through their stock and Tomix aren't producing at the moment.

 

Now that you mentioned squid, indeed the turnouts are becoming harder and harder to find...

 

 

By the way, I was playing with Anyrail, how do you insert the track section name (i.e. S140 or PL541, the name of that track section) into the plan? That would help to identify the track for easy ordering. Thanks!

[miyakoji]

Based on my observation from recent trawls of model shops in and around Tokyo, some Tomix points (turnouts) seem to be getting a bit thin on the ground. I was having problems finding 540mm-radius ones in one direction (can't remember which) recently. It seems like shops are running through their stock and Tomix aren't producing at the moment.

Interesting.  I guess some delicate work goes into the mechanism, I wonder if there are not so many Chinese factories that can produce these.  Although, my one and only set of track, Tomix 91028, says made in Japan.  Then again it doesn't have switches.

 

Maybe nartak or keitaro knows...

[katoftw]

By the way, I was playing with Anyrail, how do you insert the track section name (i.e. S140 or PL541, the name of that track section) into the plan? That would help to identify the track for easy ordering. Thanks!

Go to home, then show, then click the box for the things you wanna show.

 

HS just got supply of the points.  I guess just like trains, track pieces go out of stock at time.  Although as a manufacture, you'd make sure your bread and butter stuff is always hopefully stocked up.

[JR 500系]

A quick question guys..

 

So I managed to get 3 curved turnout points, 'turned out' (pun intended haha) that our good friend at Loco1 still having the last few. :)

 

Question is, how do we get the curve turnouts to sit onto the overhead viaduct and then split up into 4? Please refer to my picture below of my amateur Anyrail plan showing the shorten distance while using the curve turnouts, but I couldn't figure out how to connect using overhead viaduct tracks:

 

Are these the correct pieces to use?

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10072574

 

But then, how would we be able to turn them into 4 tracks at the station?

 

Your assistance is appreciated! Thanks!

[kvp]

The curved turnouts and the curved plate are designed to form a curved crossover on a double track line. Alternatively, you can use it to branch a single track line into an R280 and R317 line. If you check the track distance on your drawing, it's clear that the ends of your curved turnouts are not aligned and in the wrong track distance. So neither your mainline, or your station platforms are aligned correctly in both directions. Actually the curved turnouts are not usable with the original plan and i rember mentioning it...

 

Found it: (Posted 03 May 2015 - 09:09 PM)

Unfortunately the curved turnouts are made for the R280 base curves and this layout uses much wider ones. Moving the right hand turnouts two cars to the right would make the lower one collide with the end of the loop. You can try to replace the R280 turnouts with the standard tomix long turnouts as they can be queezed in. This will give you a 10 car elevated station with standard Tomix platform spacing. You might have to do some sidewall removal on the elevated plates between the loop tracks and the turnout area of the station if they don't fit next to each other, but you might get lucky.

 

My suggestion is still the same, please use the normal curves and the straight turnouts for your station, otherwise it's not going to work:

 

[HantuBlauLOL]

Nothing is not going to work.

 

Scratchbuild it.

[JR 500系]

Thanks for the reply kvp san!  I think i'm starting to understand what you meant. The turnout curves might hit the curves at the other side where there are 4 curves... How about if we only use the curve turnouts at one end?

 

I'll try on Anyrail later... But i'm not good with it at all...   :(

 

 

Nothing is not going to work.

Scratchbuild it.

 

I agree! :)

 

But the issue is, I can't scratch build... My skills are really bad with building kits...  :(

[HantuBlauLOL]

Learning won't hurt.. Unless you have no time, then ask someone to do it for you ;)

[kvp]

I couldn't find the original plan, so i had to redraw it, with the modification i suggested a few months ago to make the elevated station longer and more compact: (now the plan fits into a 2800 x 1300 mm rectangle)

 

Colors:

-blue: ground level

-red: elevated level

-light gray: ramp

-green: ground level yard

-dark gray: depot track partially covered by a maintenance building and ends under the mountain

 (this is a trick to fit a long train there while having a straighter cliff face between the tunnel portals)

 

ps: I've attached the scarm file too as a text, so if you want to open it, please change the extension back to '.scarm'. (the forum doesn't allow .scarm files, but .txt-s work fine and .scarm-s are actually readable text files) Also, the source image had readable piece names, but it gets compressed beyond readability after upload to conserve server disk space.

 

bilevel_double_track_folded_dogbone-20150725-1.txt

[JR 500系]

Thank you so much kvp san! Much appreciated!

 

I'll get down on the layout to see what we can do with it, and then it's time to order them in~

 

Thanks!

[JR 500系]

So I tried out Scram , which I felt was really simple and easier to work with than Anyrail actually! There's even a 3D rendering!

 

The thing is, the Tomix library is kinda old... They did not have the canted tracks and also the double overhead tracks...

 

I figured out that I might wish to reduce the radius a little, the current one is around 465/ 428, maybe I can bring it down to 317/ 280. I know the 280s are bad for most shinkansen but I heard they can actually make it across...

 

Reason for reducing the radius so I could get more space at the straights... Now, how I wished Scarm would update the Tomix library... The Kato library has already been updated to 2014...

[kvp]

 

I know the 280s are bad for most shinkansen but I heard they can actually make it across...

If you only have Tomix shinkansen and they look extremely ugly. This means while they can use a non canted R280, the seamless connections between the cars separate in the process and you have to reduce speed to around a scale 15-20 km/h. While the curved turnouts are R317/R280, those are really only good for the 20 meter commuters and even they look slightly out of place. If you plan to run shinkansen, imho you should stick with the large radius curves and also don't use canted cuves if there is a turnout next to them. The plan above avoids them so the trains won't derail when entering the turnout areas without a separating 140 mm straight section. (My plan was originally meant for 6-7 car long trains made up of 20 meter cars, but the modified version can be used by shorter shinkansen too.)