JR East to restore C58 239

[miyakoji]

C58 239, currently on static display at a prefectural park in Morioka City, will be restored, aiming for service by winter of 2013.  It will run on SL Ginga Tetsudou excursions on the Kamaishi Line.  Some of the consist for this will be modified JRH KIHA141s, with diesel engines intact to assist the train on grades.  I wonder if this will be done at Omiya like C61 20.  That one sure turned out well.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/10/12/180000.html

C58 239, I think: http://goo.gl/maps/6QztP

[bikkuri bahn]

Too bad they won't be restoring a 9600, which could assist on those grades...

[miyakoji]

Too bad they won't be restoring a 9600, which could assist on those grades...

Yeah.  Japanese Wiki says that no working 9600s exist.  I thought JR West's 9600 at Umekoji was in running order.  I shouldn't assume, but I was under the impression that all of the locos at Umekoji run, but most of them lack ATS or other necessary safety equipment for operation on operating lines.

 

And as I check the info on Umekoji, 14 of the locos don't run... 

[westfalen]

Too bad they won't be restoring a 9600, which could assist on those grades...

Or they could dig E10 1 out of the Ome Railway Park, now that would be worth a trip to see.

 

A 9600 is a common class but missing from the operating fleet of Japanese steam though.

[ianlaw]

Too bad the Japanese just stick some DMU rolling stock behind their steam engines and don't invest in suitable restored coaches.

Maybe that explains all the long tele frontal shots you see of steam workings.

[miyakoji]

Too bad the Japanese just stick some DMU rolling stock behind their steam engines and don't invest in suitable restored coaches.

Maybe that explains all the long tele frontal shots you see of steam workings.

Yeah, I don't know about this idea for the consist, but at least they're going to restore another SL to operating condition.  I've got to agree with westfalen about the E10, that would be awesome (two of its drive axles do not have flanges on the wheels, I guess there's no other way to get it through a tight turn).  But about these KIHA141s, I don't think it will be the whole train, just a few cars.  C61 20 often pulls (I think) SUHA32 series cars, maybe we'll see this C58 pull such trains on routes with easier grades.

[Fenway Park]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. Another SL is very welcome. The Chicibu use a C58 and apart from the recent derailment it has operated successfully. The use of the C58 will keep costs down, sadly tHe reason the C62 was replaced on the Niseko Express by C11.

The C58 has a modern cab and can operate easily in both directions if needs be while although I would love to see a 9600 restored to full working  order the lack of an all over cab as with more modern JNR types would restrict its operations. Today's steam crews expect comfort so a 9600 with its open cab in reverse would not be popular.

So will Kato produce a new 1/150 C58 or will Tomix beat them to it?

 

Malcolm

[keitaro]

Too bad they won't be restoring a 9600, which could assist on those grades...

Yeah.  Japanese Wiki says that no working 9600s exist.  I thought JR West's 9600 at Umekoji was in running order.  I shouldn't assume, but I was under the impression that all of the locos at Umekoji run, but most of them lack ATS or other necessary safety equipment for operation on operating lines.

 

And as I check the info on Umekoji, 14 of the locos don't run... 

 

nah they have the 8620 running, nice loco though.

 

 

 

I too would like to see an E10. 1 loco at a time i guess would be nice to see them having a loco of each class in running condition in japan.

[miyakoji]

The use of the C58 will keep costs down, sadly tHe reason the C62 was replaced on the Niseko Express by C11.

 

I only read about JRH's C62 3 recently, I was wondering why exactly it was taken out of service.  Does it get care and maintenance so that it can be brought back into service or is its return to non-operating status basically permanent?

 

How do the JRs price the excursion services?

[bikkuri bahn]

Restoring a 8620 for "helper" service would be another option.  Both the 8620 and 9600 have historical operational relevance to Tohoku, with the 9600 used on the Yonesaka Line, and 8620's were seem triple heading on the 3.3% grades of the Hanawa Line.  But this is all foamer fantasy, aside from operational cost realities, the general public don't care if the car they're in has a diesel slung underneath, and with a coat of dark crimson paint, they won't know the difference anyway.

[Sacto1985]

Speaking of the JNR C58 class, I do know one place to see steam locomotives in regular excursion service is on the Oigawa Main Line going north from JR East Kanaya Station. I've videos of three SL's parked side by side on that line.

[westfalen]

Restoring a 8620 for "helper" service would be another option.  Both the 8620 and 9600 have historical operational relevance to Tohoku, with the 9600 used on the Yonesaka Line, and 8620's were seem triple heading on the 3.3% grades of the Hanawa Line.  But this is all foamer fantasy, aside from operational cost realities, the general public don't care if the car they're in has a diesel slung underneath, and with a coat of dark crimson paint, they won't know the difference anyway.

When the Clinchfield Railroad restored 4-6-0 No.1 to service in the 1970's they painted a couple of F7 B units green to use as helpers, most of the people riding the trains just wondered why there were two baggage cars.

[westfalen]

Too bad the Japanese just stick some DMU rolling stock behind their steam engines and don't invest in suitable restored coaches.

Maybe that explains all the long tele frontal shots you see of steam workings.

I think the problem in Japan is the same as in most other countries where restored steam runs on the main line, a shortage of main line certified coaches, in the USA for example look at the seemingly random mix of cars on mainline steam excursions, except for Union Pacific who has a bit more money to throw into it. Here in Queensland QR has about five servicable steamers at the moment but can barely put together one train of vintage cars to run behind them. JR East seem to have bucked the common trend of concentrating on restoring locos by putting as much effort into what the finished loco will pull.

[bikkuri bahn]

The use of the C58 will keep costs down, sadly tHe reason the C62 was replaced on the Niseko Express by C11.

 

I only read about JRH's C62 3 recently, I was wondering why exactly it was taken out of service.  Does it get care and maintenance so that it can be brought back into service or is its return to non-operating status basically permanent?

 

How do the JRs price the excursion services?

 

I don't know the specifics, but I heard the C62 was just too expensive to run for the amount of passengers it hauled. More people seemingly drove their cars to take pictures of the train lineside rather than paying to ride behind it. As far as pricing, AFAIK the fare structure is the same as other trains, including any applicable reserved seat and/or express fares. In the end, most people don't care if the train is pulled by a Hudson or a 2-6-4 tank, as long as it puffs steam and whistles loudly.

[keitaro]

in regards to the c62-3  theres more to it than just the cost of running it.

 

The line that can support and run this steam loco needs upgrades to the line to handle such a loco.

 

The c11's are fine however at the end, the turntable also now quite old needs repairs/upgrades to handle the c62.

 

Another problem is that the train is stored staticly because they had no suitable shed to house it in.

 

The c11's attract quite a large passenger base too so the justification to do all this and reduce the c11 trips is really hard to do.

 

It maybe a possibility when both or 1 of the c11's come up for needing new boilers/major repairs the c62 may be given a chance again.

 

Also the carriages it had dissapeared.... though i guess it could pull the c11's though with a loco with that much power i'd be adding more and where to house them?

[marknewton]

Here's an English version of the original news story:

 

http://japandailypress.com/jr-east-to-use-restored-steam-train-for-promoting-tourism-in-tohoku-region-1516007

 

And a Japanese blog post from Hobidas:

 

http://rail.hobidas.com/blog/natori/archives/2012/10/58_293.html

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

I only read about JRH's C62 3 recently, I was wondering why exactly it was taken out of service.

 

Based on my admittedly limited abilty with the Japanese language, C62 3 needed a fair bit of boiler work - new tubes, flues and elements, and a general overhaul of the running gear - new pins and bushes for the spring rigging/compo beams, new pedestal liners, new bushes and pins for the rods and motion, and wheel turning. No doubt other issues would become apparent when the loco was stripped down for overhaul.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

...I wonder if this will be done at Omiya like C61 20.  That one sure turned out well.

 

You're not wrong.

 

C61 20 is an absolute credit to everyone involved in her overhaul. In particular whoever decided to rebuild that particular loco, as she was in fairly good condition to begin with, and consequently was a wise choice. Likewise with C58 239. Looking at the photos on the Hobidas blog, she's been protected from the weather by a roof, is quite complete and intact, and has been looked after by blokes who obviously know what they're doing - presumably retired railwaymen.

 

Now assuming that the engine wasn't utterly flogged when it was withdrawn, and the restoration team don't find any nasty surprises when they pull her to bits, I'd suggest that they'll pull off another quick, professional rebuilding job that will be the envy of other steam operators...like me!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Or they could dig E10 1 out of the Ome Railway Park, now that would be worth a trip to see.

 

I reckon! 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Yeah, I don't know about this idea for the consist, but at least they're going to restore another SL to operating condition.  I've got to agree with westfalen about the E10, that would be awesome (two of its drive axles do not have flanges on the wheels, I guess there's no other way to get it through a tight turn).

 

Well, there's a number of ways to get engines with long wheelbases around sharp curves apart from flangless coupled wheels, and from memory the E10s had quite generous spring-controlled sideplay in the leading and trailing coupled axleboxes - a rudimentary form of lateral motion device.

 

But about these KIHA141s, I don't think it will be the whole train, just a few cars.

 

I think it's a great idea, as it means the crew won't be flogging themselves or the engine to run the 'table.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

I would love to see a 9600 restored to full working  order the lack of an all over cab as with more modern JNR types would restrict its operations. Today's steam crews expect comfort so a 9600 with its open cab in reverse would not be popular.

 

Malcolm, I have to ask - do you know any steam-qualified enginemen who hold that opinion? I can tell you that neither I nor any of the steam crews I regularly work with have any expectation whatsoever of comfort when we're on the engine. And from what I've seen of Japanese enginemen I'd be utterly astonished if they felt any differently. Perhaps there's a bit of dumb macho pride involved. I've seen blokes just about fight each other stripped to the waist to get rostered on the oldest working engines we have.

 

And if you were out on a 9600 and the weather turned nasty, you'd just do what enginemen have done for at least 125 years - roll the weather sheet down... 

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[miyakoji]

whoever decided to rebuild that particular loco

 

This is something I wondered about a lot.  I expect that current condition was a major factor, possibly the major factor, but there must have been a few other considerations.  As I recall, they fabricated some major components for C61 20, and there probably aren't any existing spare parts anyway, except for other C61s, although anyway I'm not aware of any being cannibalized for #20.  It was in Gunma-ken.  Not too far away.  It was not under a roof, I don't think, while this C58 is.  Power might not be at the top of the list as they know where they want to run this, at least initially, and they know it won't pull the size consist that they want on that line.

 

I've read about train crews qualifying on both lines and equipment, presumably that goes for a steam locomotive as it does for anything.  Is there sufficient difference between types that they chose a C58 because they have crews to run it, or because they can learn more easily than on another type?

 

But I'm thinking more about E10 1.  That would be awesome.

[westfalen]

I don't know how JR do it but on Queensland Rail all the steam qualified engine crews are now citytrain men based at Mayne in Brisbane that work their normal citytrain jobs when not on steam. They drive the locos all over the state, occasionally away for days at a time, with a QR National pilot in the cab when they don't know the road. Until a few years ago most depots still had the occasional older driver who was still steam qualified from the days of real steam and it was just a case of rostering on a qualified crew, but those days are gone and even if they were still around these days your qualifications lapse after a period if you don't use them as opposed to the old days when once you were taught something you were qualified for life. QR every couple of years still run courses to qualify on steam, I'd thrown my name in the hat but you need to be diesel qualified to have Westinghouse brake experience.

 

These days it is different but in steam days old drivers tell me if you could drive one you were expected to be able to drive them all as everything is all pretty much in the same place and does the same thing, at most you got a few minutes to look around the cab. I remember on one trip to Japan a QR tutor driver who taught on steam back home was having a good old conversation with an Oigawa C11 crew about their engine even though neither knew a word of each other's language.

[miyakoji]

Looking good, it's on its way to Omiya (well it's probably there by now).

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/12/05/150000.html

 

FNN News:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yInzRPLdjNQ

 

Two videos of it on the road at night.  The time of day is coincidence I think, according to the Tetsudou Fan article above they didn't wait until night to get underway.

 

by hanadanna2525

 

by newrode583

[cteno4]

Another interesting potential scene to model!

 

Thanks

 

Jeff