Passing the baton: electric to diesel

[bikkuri bahn]

At Tomakomai Station yesterday, a 711 series EMU, and a kiha 143 unit in the background.  The 711's are used on local services between Tomokomai and Higashi Muroran.  These will be replaced on the 27th of this month with kiha 143's made redundant by the electrification of the Sassho Line in the Sapporo metro area.  The 143's have been modified for one man operation.  The 711's are old, but one cannot help but think that reversion to diesel operation is a step backwards, at least in terms of passenger comfort.  However, performance requirements are not demanding on this line, and passenger loads on average are light (mainly the high school student and elderly segment, I reckon).

 

The second picture is an ceiling fan inside a 711- this is non-airconditioned unit.  You can see the JNR logo in the center of the wire guard.

[miyakoji]

Yeah, it does seem backwards.  How worn out are these 711s?  Are they getting scrapped?  JRH repainted some of these in the last year or two, iirc.  I wasn't really aware of them until that was in Tetsudou Fan news or Hobidas.  They seem like a winterized, AC-only 169, I like them.  I guess maintenance on these will cost more than diesel fuel for the KIHA143.  Kind of surprising, I'd think any DMU is a gas guzzler.

[keitaro]

long live the kiha :D

[ToniBabelony]

I hope this isn't an omen, just like what happened to the Kurihara Denen RR... Shut down electric operations in 1995 and closed down completely in 2006.

 

 

Yes, yes indeed, I remembered that fabled episode of the Tetsuko no Tabi anime...

[Densha]

Let's hope so Toni.

Yes, yes indeed, I remembered that fabled episode of the Tetsuko no Tabi anime...

Of which I have not watched the anime because I can't find it in English anywhere.

[keitaro]

pretty sure they have a higher customer base than Kurihara denen did lol

 

Less likely to happen The DMU's would be cheaper to run imo

[ToniBabelony]

I'm not sure about the DMU being cheaper to run (more moving parts, fuel costs, etc.), but if they have rolling stock to spare and no funds to invest in modernising or replacing the 711 Series, then that is the most logical solution. I hope that JRH replaces the KIHA143 with EMU somewhere in time. At least for the passenger's comfort and environment's sake.

 

Also, getting 2nd hand EMU from JRE would probably be out of the question, since their older rolling stock also has reached the age of JRH rolling stock, and from other (be it JR Group or Private) companies, they wouldn't be able to cope with the harsh climate of Hokkaido...

[200系]

The 711's are old' date=' but one cannot help but think that reversion to diesel operation is a step backwards, at least in terms of passenger comfort.  However, performance requirements are not demanding on this line, and passenger loads on average are light (mainly the high school student and elderly segment, I reckon).[/quote']

 

If you don't mind me asking, do you know when those units where build exactly? The Japanese wiki page mentions the 1967 introduction of the pre-production formation, and a 3rd run as late as 1980 so I assume this is one of the JNR series with a long production run, but are there even any remaining units from the 1960's~70's or are they all late 70's early 80's units? (like the JR east 113系 retired last year). I like the JNR logo on the fan, nice little detail!

 

I'm not sure about the DMU being cheaper to run (more moving parts' date=' fuel costs, etc.), but if they have rolling stock to spare and no funds to invest in modernising or replacing the 711 Series[/quote']

 

It might also be a case, as mentioned, of excess capacity. I can imagine a 2 car KiHa 143 being a better match then a 3 car 711系 if you're passenger numbers are low, this in all likelihood offsets the extra cost for fuel maintenance etc just by 'right-sizing' the equipment. I don't believe an older design like the 711系 would be that much cheaper to maintain then a 1990's KiHa.

[bikkuri bahn]

How worn out are these 711s?  Are they getting scrapped?

 

They are well maintained, though some units are showing their age cosmetically on their paint jobs.  These will likely be scrapped as they are redundant.

 

I hope this isn't an omen, just like what happened to the Kurihara Denen RR...

 

Not likely, the Muroran Line is an important trunk line, with lots of freight, and limited express services.  There are still electrified ltd. express services between Sapporo and Muroran (Suzuran), it's only the local services that will be all diesel.

 

If you don't mind me asking, do you know when those units where build exactly?

Sorry, don't have a current roster handy.  Assume they are later production units (around Showa 55).

 

Also, getting 2nd hand EMU from JRE would probably be out of the question, since their older rolling stock also has reached the age of JRH rolling stock, and from other (be it JR Group or Private) companies, they wouldn't be able to cope with the harsh climate of Hokkaido...

Yes, rolling stock has to be winterized for service up here. Past attempts to convert existing Honshu based stock have been unsuccessful. This service is not a money maker for JR Hokkaido, they're economizing by reusing the kihas, which are still in good condition.

 

Another aspect that has to be considered is the 711's are based in Sapporo.  So they have to be ferried back and forth for maintenance.  The kiha's will be based I believe in Tomokomai, along with the Hidaka Line kiha 40's.  Other than heavy overhaul that must be done in Naebo, they dmus can stay in the area and receive their running and intermediate maintenence locally.

[ToniBabelony]

I hope this isn't an omen, just like what happened to the Kurihara Denen RR...

 

Not likely, the Muroran Line is an important trunk line, with lots of freight, and limited express services.  There are still electrified ltd. express services between Sapporo and Muroran (Suzuran), it's only the local services that will be all diesel.

 

That is good to know, but it still seems strange to me to switch to DMU operation on a fully electrified line. I guess in such heavy financial climate as we are in now, you have to make such decisions.

[Jace]

but it still seems strange to me to switch to DMU operation on a fully electrified line.

 

My guess is this is a cost avoidance issue. The 711's are aging and will likely need a major overhaul to stay in service. The dmu's are available now with little longer investment needed making them more attractive despite higher operating costs.

 

There's a nice photo feature of these cars in this service in the September issue of Rail Magazine (no. 348 for those keeping score).

[keitaro]

With the age of the 711's i'm sure it's cheaper to run the dmu's they are still fairly new compared to the 711's and likely cheaper and easier to get a hold of parts for, also would less likely be needing to be repaired on a regular basis to those old 711's,

 

also with the roll out of the new emu's else where on newly electrified lines that are replacing some of these dmu's there would be a surplus of dmu's and large reason to use on these on lower income lines.

 

no point in tossing perfectly good 143's away when they have a much large life expectancy left compared to the 711's.

[JR 500系]

Thanks for the post!

 

This thread reminds me greatly of my trip last March in Hokkaido... As i sat on the Super Hokuto Kiha-183 HET and all the station names ring a bell to me:

 

Tomakomai, Oshamanbe, Higashi-Muroran, Toya, Date-monbetsu, Goryukaku, Hakodate, etc...

 

Almost memorised the entire line as the annoucement went on and on each station we stopped... Imagine From Hakodate-Sapporo and back again...

[miyakoji]

With the schedule revision in effect Saturday, October 27, services previously operated by 711 series will have DMUs.  All locals between Tomakomai and Muroran will be operated by DMUs.  The last 711 service was the day before, train 2726M departing Teine for Higashi-Muroran, run by set S114 in original livery.

 

No info about the disposition of these 711s

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/10/27/111500.html

[bikkuri bahn]

I see the photographer got up early to catch that train at Kami-Nopporo- it's one of my favorite train watching spots in the Sapporo metro area (probably the best to get a good balance of emus, dmus, and freight).

 

I think 711's will continue serving on Hakodate Main Line between Otaru and Takikawa/Asahikawa for some time.  I don't know how many of the Muroran Line trains will be scrapped, however.  I'm curious if 2726M was cut back to Tomakomai, and if a 711 is still used. If replaced I hope it wasn't replaced by a "Darth Vader" (731 series), but rather a 3 car 721 series with a motor driving car (kumoha), which is more comfortable.

[miyakoji]

Some good news for the 711s, set S-114 was on the Sassho Line the next day in a 6-car configuration with S-111.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/10/28/111600.html

[Densha]

That's interesting. They electrified a diesel line and put EMUs on it, while the line which the EMUs came from has catenary but will be served by DMUs.

[bikkuri bahn]

Some good news for the 711s, set S-114 was on the Sassho Line the next day in a 6-car configuration with S-111.

 

http://railf.jp/news/2012/10/28/111600.html

 

Excellent news.  Now hopefully,hopefully that was not a one-off, and that we'll be able to see 711's on the Sassho Line at least occasionally-it's an easy line for me to get decent shots even with just an hour of railfanning.

[bikkuri bahn]

An interesting development (good or bad depending on your POV), train 2726M, the Teine-Higashi Muroran service I wondered what will happen regarding rolling stock assignment post-711 series, has been re-designated 2726D, in other words, it's a diesel service! It's a two car 143 series (ex-Sassho Line), service from Sapporo, with the former Teine-Sapporo leg axed, destination Higashi Muroran.  It leaves Sapporo one minute earlier (6:23) than its emu predecessor. That's a two and a half hour trip by local dmu, ok if you get one of the box seats, but otherwise tiring for the general traveler (though in reality 99% will take the ltd. express Suzuran if going any farther than Tomakomai).

 

http://ameblo.jp/tsuchibuta/entry-11391141657.html

[bikkuri bahn]

Footage of that 711 series on the Sassho Line:

*above is between Ainosato Koen and Ainosato Kyoikudai

 

Coming off the Ishikari River Bridge, and the return run.  Includes a non-aircon 3 car unit in the original colors:

[Densha]

And another one:

 

[bikkuri bahn]

I see the videographer was sufficiently motivated to get up early this morning to film that train, it's been dripping wet and windy/thundery the past couple of days here. The livery on these units are such that they look good even in bad weather.

[bikkuri bahn]

On Monday, went to Teine Station after work.  The platform for Sapporo bound trains has this sign with all the scheduled trains as well as their train lengths.  If you look carefully, you can see 4 red squares- these are for 711 series trains, three in the morning and one in the evening.  Teine is just about 800m downline from the Sapporo Depot, where all emus in the region are based and maintained (as well as many ltd. express dmus and blue trains laying over), so many local trains originate and terminate at this station.