Catenary failure?

[tantousha]

Anyone have any idea what's happening here? I tried translating a few of the comments and only came up with "big shock". If it is indeed arcing, wouldn't a breaker or something pop to stop it?

 

[miyakoji]

I've seen this before.  It just says the catenary was cut.  Presumably it was actually ripped down.  There must be breakers on the traction supply just like any other electrical circuit, I don't understand why they don't trip.

[Nick_Burman]

I've seen this before.  It just says the catenary was cut.  Presumably it was actually ripped down.  There must be breakers on the traction supply just like any other electrical circuit, I don't understand why they don't trip.

 

Yep, the pan ripped the catenary down. The reason why the circuit breakers don't trip is the fact that the South African 3Kv DC power system is set up to permit trains to draw a lot of current through the wire (it's not uncommon to see freights in SA drawn by up to 4 DC electrics), which means that circuit breakers have to be set up to withstand this heavy power draw. The result that it would take a real heavy short circuit to make the breakers trip - and this "firework" doesn't draw enough power to make it happen.

 

Cheers NB

[miyakoji]

I see.  Japan's DC is only 1500V, would it likely be configured the same way?  Although, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of catenary problems in Japan.

[Nick_Burman]

I see.  Japan's DC is only 1500V, would it likely be configured the same way?  Although, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of catenary problems in Japan.

 

The power setup is the same, but the amount of amps available must be lower as Japanese freight trains are lighter - speed (to get out of the way of the passenger trains run by the host railways JRF runs over) being privileged over haulage capacity (remember JRF's operating philosophy: "1000tons at 100kph"). So much so that JRF made itself unpopular for a while when the EH200 electrics arrived; these were/are the world's most powerful 1.5Kv electric locos. They were also very powerful and efficient circuit breaker trippers...one reason why there aren't all that many locos of the class around. JRF had to foot several substation upgrades so these locos could run more or less unmolested.

 

Cheers NB

[miyakoji]

Mark, thanks for the post, I had never heard '1000tons at 100kph' before, but it does make sense, what little I know of JRF, one stand-out characteristic is that freight trains seem to max out around 23 cars(?) and they seem fairly nimble and controllable.

 

Interesting about the EH200s, when I see them I think of gasoline tanks going up the Chuo Line.  Do they do much else with them?

[Nick_Burman]

Mark,

 

?!?!

 

thanks for the post, I had never heard '1000tons at 100kph' before, but it does make sense, what little I know of JRF, one stand-out characteristic is that freight trains seem to max out around 23 cars(?) and they seem fairly nimble and controllable.

 

Interesting about the EH200s, when I see them I think of gasoline tanks going up the Chuo Line.  Do they do much else with them?

 

I saw this 1000ton @ 100kph in the EJRCF magazine, in an article outlining JRF's plans for the future. Essentially JRF wants to own rolling stock and locomotives capable of operating at the same speeds as the EMUs they share tracks with - the idea is to be able to create a timetable where freights don't need to keep getting both in the way and out of the way of passenger services, thus easing congestion, improving running times (essential for container trains) and easing relations with the host railways over which JRF travels.

 

Cheers NB

[ToniBabelony]

Essentially JRF wants to own rolling stock and locomotives capable of operating at the same speeds as the EMUs they share tracks with - the idea is to be able to create a timetable where freights don't need to keep getting both in the way and out of the way of passenger services, thus easing congestion, improving running times (essential for container trains) and easing relations with the host railways over which JRF travels.

 

That was one of the things that startled me when I was in Japan and saw a freight train accelerate: they are damn swift! Back then, here in the Netherlands, freight trains were slow moving and heavy objects, so that was really a surprise to me. Here, nowadays, they seemed to have sped up as well (often seen with dual traction).

[Jace]

JRF had to foot several substation upgrades so these locos could run more or less unmolested.

 

With something as fundamental as power supply, its odd that JRF would find out this after the units went into service. Any idea what the DC ratings will be on the EH800's? I'd think that they'd at least equal the EH200's now that the line can handle them.

[Nick_Burman]

Jace, the EH800 will be AC-only machines. The AC system has less problems with coping with heavy loads. And the locos have one specific duty in mind - hauling trains across the Seikan Tunnel.

 

Cheers NB

[Nick_Burman]

Essentially JRF wants to own rolling stock and locomotives capable of operating at the same speeds as the EMUs they share tracks with - the idea is to be able to create a timetable where freights don't need to keep getting both in the way and out of the way of passenger services, thus easing congestion, improving running times (essential for container trains) and easing relations with the host railways over which JRF travels.

 

That was one of the things that startled me when I was in Japan and saw a freight train accelerate: they are damn swift! Back then, here in the Netherlands, freight trains were slow moving and heavy objects, so that was really a surprise to me. Here, nowadays, they seemed to have sped up as well (often seen with dual traction).

 

Like the JR network, the NS system is saddled with current draw restrictions. Drivers have to be careful when they start notching otherwise they'll leave a score of passenger trains stranded... I'm not up-to-date on the Dutch network, but maybe, maybe NS has been working on the power system to allow trains to run double-headed. I think this is a reflex of the fact that some time ago several persons in higher-up echelons of power manifested their displeasure at the fact that most private freight operators traverse the NS network using diesel power, essentially negating one of the great advantages of the Dutch rail system (almost everything is under wire).

 

I've seen films of trains on the Betuwe route and they don't seem to loose much time there. But then, the line is AC all the way and the new generation of high-power electric locos can make good use of this feature. The fun part was when NS used a MÃV V63 "Gigant" to test circuits during construction - a pair of these locos in MU would have fairly cleared out Kijfhoek Yard of its contents!

 

Cheers NB

[Densha]

I never knew of Hungarian trains testing in the Netherlands. At least makes an excuse for people modelling Dutch railways who have Hungarian rolling stock as well.

[Nick_Burman]

I never knew of Hungarian trains testing in the Netherlands. At least makes an excuse for people modelling Dutch railways who have Hungarian rolling stock as well.

 

Well, if you are interested in one...

 

http://www.naumann-online.de/shop/artikeldet.php?proid=3976&sid=85c1998db79lh613b4059ll593

 

...it's available!

 

cheers NB

[Jace]

the EH800 will be AC-only machines

 

Thanks Nick. When I saw they were dual powered I just assumed AC and DC, not AC only. I'd be interested in reading more about the issues the EH200's had as again it seems odd that this issue wasn't found until service started.

 

The DC systems I've worked with haven't had issues with inadequate supplies (though I know some that are getting close thanks to heavier trains with more equipment on board), but I have had experience with trains not correctly designed for the characteristics of the supply (mainly the transients but also, as we found out, sustained peak voltages). The result was somewhat similar to the South African MU only inside the carbody...

[miyakoji]

Mark,

 

?!?!

 

Sorry, I get my wires crossed sometimes, in fashion similar to that of the EMU in the video 

[Nick_Burman]

the EH800 will be AC-only machines

 

Thanks Nick. When I saw they were dual powered I just assumed AC and DC, not AC only. I'd be interested in reading more about the issues the EH200's had as again it seems odd that this issue wasn't found until service started.

 

The DC systems I've worked with haven't had issues with inadequate supplies (though I know some that are getting close thanks to heavier trains with more equipment on board), but I have had experience with trains not correctly designed for the characteristics of the supply (mainly the transients but also, as we found out, sustained peak voltages). The result was somewhat similar to the South African MU only inside the carbody...

 

They will indeed be dual-system locos - AC/AC: 20Kv (zairaisen) and 25Kv (Shinkansen/Seikan Tunnel), 50Hz if I understood well.

 

Cheers NB

[Jace]

I saw this 1000ton @ 100kph in the EJRCF magazine, in an article outlining JRF's plans for the future.

 

Just came across this. According to the English wiki page on the EF66's, the original 1966 built locomotives were:

 

designed to be able to haul a 1,000-tonne train at 100 km/h. Each motor has a 650 kW power output, (about 50% more powerful than the EF65).

 

Granted these were designed for the Sanyo and Tokaido mains. I guess JRF wanted to expand (or resurrect) this policy.

[miyakoji]

EJRCF magazine

 

Nick, what magazine is this?  I don't recognize the initials.

[Nick_Burman]

EJRCF magazine

 

Nick, what magazine is this?  I don't recognize the initials.

 

It's the East Japan Railway Culture Foundation in-house mag. I've forgotten its real name now.

 

Cheers NB

[bill937ca]

I saw this 1000ton @ 100kph in the EJRCF magazine, in an article outlining JRF's plans for the future.

 

Just came across this. According to the English wiki page on the EF66's, the original 1966 built locomotives were:

 

designed to be able to haul a 1,000-tonne train at 100 km/h. Each motor has a 650 kW power output, (about 50% more powerful than the EF65).

 

Granted these were designed for the Sanyo and Tokaido mains. I guess JRF wanted to expand (or resurrect) this policy.

 

The EF66s were used as helpers on 5% grades for EMU runs to Nagano circa 1997.

[200系]

Wasn't that the EF63形 though? (EF63形-EF63形-189/489系)

 

As far as I know the EF66形0番台 was designed for fast freight/passenger service (up to 120km/h in passenger service, the fastest and most powerful of it's generation AFAIK), while the EF66形100番台 was designed for freight only.

[Serow]

The same in Milan with 600 V DC, certainly caused by the defect electric equipment of the tram.