Seibu 100th anniversary

[bikkuri bahn]

Observed at Takadanobaba Station, on the Seibu Shinjuku Line, banners commemorating the 100th anniversary of the founding of Seibu Railways, known as the Musashino Railway when established in 1912. I'm unsure about the steam locomotive, perhaps it is a Nasmyth Wilson & Co Ltd. product (Manchester), it does not appear to be the Musashino Rlwy No. 5 (Henschel, 1914) featured in the Seibu website:

http://www.seibu-group.co.jp/railways/100th/history/detail01.html

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Good looking Steam locomotive.

 

Maybe someone will produce it.

[The_Ghan]

Pretty sure it's an old Dubs and Co Avonside Engine Company loco.  Possibly Seibu No. 6.  

 

Unfortunately my notebook crashed and I've spent the better part of the day rebuilding it.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[bikkuri bahn]

The closest I can find to an extant locomotive is Seibu No. 4:

http://userdisk.webry.biglobe.ne.jp/004/953/94/N000/000/000/P1000572.jpg

 

It's an ex-Kawagoe Rlwy, ex-Boso Rlwy locomotive, built by Nasmyth.  It was operational on the Seibu Rlwy until 1957, when it was sold to Nippon Nickel. It currently is at a Seibu rolling stock depot in Chichibu.

[keitaro]

Its number 6 before it was changed to number 5.

 

No one knows what happened to poor old number 5.

 

http://homepage3.nifty.com/EF57/beginning/firstmodel.htm

[The_Ghan]

Its number 6 before it was changed to number 5.

 

No one knows what happened to poor old number 5.

 

http://homepage3.nifty.com/EF57/beginning/firstmodel.htm

 

Geez !!!  You and bikkuri are good !!!

 

No: 6 was built by Avonside.  I was wrong about the Dubs and Co. earlier.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

If I had 350 au dollars to throw about every month I would be getting a lot of the world kougei completed models.

 

They have done a lot of these great tank locos not specifically the first 10 but many others of this kind.

[marknewton]

Ghan, you were right the first time - the engine on the banner was built by Dübs and Co, in 1891. It was one of two built by them for the Osaka Railway, b/n 2764 & 2765. The were numbered 6 & 7 on the Osaka Railway. When that line was taken over by the Kansai Railway there were renumbered 57 & 58, and when that line was nationalised they became JGR Nos.220 & 221. No. 221 was sold to the Onoda Railway in 1915, where it remained until it was requisitioned by the Japnese Army, re-gauged to 1 metre gauge, and sent to Northern China in 1939.

 

No.220 was sold to the Tama Railway, where she carried the number A1. When Seibu absorbed the Tama, the engine became Seibu No.3. The engine was transferred to the Nippon Nickel/Jobu Railway. She was eventually replaced by the abovementioned Seibu No.4.

 

And the dear old girl most definitely survives today, No.3 is preserved on the grounds of some kind of university in Tokyo

 

 

see here: http://yamatetsu.dee.cc/info/Type_old.htm

 

(Scroll down the page to the eighth entry)

 

I'd prefer to see her completely under cover and protected from the weather, but at least she survives. I've seen a photo of her after withrawal on the Jobu Rly, the scrappies had already removed her cab.

 

Seibu No.4 is a typical JGR A8 class 2-4-2T, which were built by Nasmyth Wilson, Vulcan Foundry and Dübs. These engines were a fair bit larger than No.3, and had Joy valve gear, whereas these two Dübs engines had Walschaerts, apparently the first such application in Japan.

 

(If you hadn't already guessed, this engine is a particular favourite of mine!  )

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[miyakoji]

it was requisitioned by the Japnese Army, re-gauged to 1 metre gauge, and sent to Northern China in 1939.

 

Seems like so much work it wouldn't be worth it.  I guess they were really short on supplies.

[The_Ghan]

Thanks Mark,

 

I was pretty sure I was on the right track there.  Dübs and Co seemed to do a lot of 2-6-2 and similar tanks.  I Googled them but the closest I found was the XXl class.  If you'd asked me this 30 years ago when I was neck-deep in British Steam I might have been more confident.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

Hmm can't see the front 2 in that pic hence why I thought looks like the original 6

 

Also why is seibu showing a pic of stock they didn't use I fail to see the connection?  Unless I'm missing something about no.6

 

As you mention number 3 as being used.

 

Not saying your wrong just doesn't make sense why they use that loco.

[marknewton]

Seems like so much work it wouldn't be worth it.  I guess they were really short on supplies.

 

It wouldn't require much work at all. There's only 2.63 inches difference between metre gauge and 3'6". I'd suggest that No.221 would most likely have been converted in the same way that the C56 & C58 class engines that went to Thailand were converted to metre gauge. These engines were simply fitted with wide tyres that projected past the rear face of the wheel centres. The only other mod required would be wider brakeshoes. But I agree with your second comment, they must have been short of engines to have considered such a small and elderly loco.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Keitaro, I think we're at cross-purposes. The engine shown on the banner in bb's first post was used by Seibu, and as far as I'm aware the Nippon nickel/Jobu Railway was a Seibu subsidiary company. A book I got recently that chronicles all of Seibu's locos and rollingstock features a couple of photos of No.3, including the view that appears on the poster.

 

Here's another:

 

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Maybe someone will produce it.

 

Well well .

 

Here it is http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/item.aspx?It_c=10182443

[keitaro]

not quite the same skip