MicroAce A7007 C53-43 decoder install.

[lbriand_fr]

I want to put a DZ125 on my C53-43. As it's a a streamlined, I was thinking there was some place in it.

Unfortunately, MicroAce use all the place for a huge and heavy frame.

But, in the tender, I found a place to put my DZ125.

 

This is the first time that I try to put a decoder on a steam locomotive, and I get stuck at this point (see the picture).

 

I try to remove the 2 screws on the side frame, but the frame doesn't open, blocked by the wheels. And I don't want to remove the wheels now.

 

So, if someone see how to access to the motor brushes and the two wires of the bulb, it will helps me a lot.

[Martijn Meerts]

Looks very similar to a Kato steamer I converted some time ago. In that case I was able to remove the motor without doing anything with the metal frame. The motor was held in place by a small screw underneith the motor.

 

Not sure if that's the case with this one, but if it's not, I'm afraid you'll have to remove the wheels...

[Bernard]

First off that is a nce looking steam engine.

 

Martijn - looking at the room in the C53, do you think Lionel is going to have to put the DZ125 decoder in the tender and run the wires to the engine?

[lbriand_fr]

Yes, it's similar to your C57 (great thread!).

There is no screw under the motor, it's just a plastic clip that fix the motor.

I remove it with a little screwdriver by pushing it little by little. I managed to not break anything, and now I can see what to do.

 

On the picture, we can see the tiny copper plate that make contact where the frame is not coated.

I think I've just to isolate these non coated parts of the frame and connect the wires with the plates.

 

Also, I plan to change the front bulb for a white DEL.

[Martijn Meerts]

Ah, so they used a plastic clip instead of the screw, but in the end it's the same idea =) Interestingly, there's what looks to be a tapped hole underneith where the motor rests on the bottom of the frame, and the connection rod to the tender looks very much like the Kato one.. Could MicroAce have decided to pick a Kato frame? Maybe MicroAce and Kato are (partially) manufactured in the same factory?

 

 

Bernard, hard to say with looking just at the pictures. There is a chance, if the decoder is small enough, that it'll fit on top of the motor inside the driver's cab, much like where I put the one in the C57. The C57 had JUST enough clearance, but because this one is streamlined, the cab is likely shaped differently, possibly shorter. But I'd have to have a look at the model itself (I have it as well actually, so shouldn't be too hard =))

[lbriand_fr]

Effectively, I've tried to put the decoder at the same place than Martijn place it in his C57, and apparently it's OK.

By cutting a little the red plastic protection and paint in black the rest of it.

 

And... Yes, nice looking...

After this one, I have a Pacina 12 to convert (MicroAce A8404), another great looking  ;D

[lbriand_fr]

I’ve just finished testing and programming my decoder, and all is okay.  8)

 

Now for the “how to”, it’s quite simple (well… the Martijn topic’s on his C57 helped me a lot):

 

The top brush of the motor (+) is connected with the Orange wire, and the other brush (-) with the Grey wire.

To avoid problems, I've soldered as close as possible of the middle of the motor, and cutted off the rest of the copper plate.

[lbriand_fr]

Then, I've isolated the motor with 2 strips of isolation tape.

The front bulb is just clipped between the right and the left frame. I've taken a white DEL and a 620 ohms resistor to replace it.

You put the resistor between the cathode and the white wire of the decoder.

The blue wire is connected to the anode.

To connect the black and red wires, I've drilled a hole on each side of the frame with a hand drill.

[lbriand_fr]

Then, I've plugged the stripped wires, and I've fixed them with epoxy putty.

I've used a lot isolation tape to maintain the wires while testing.

Once the shell will be in place, all the wires will be restrained by it.

 

I admit, I should shorten the white and blue wires, but I am a bit lazy.  :P

[lbriand_fr]

I've tested the locomotive on a track, and it works…

 

 

This is time to put the shell back, but before, I've painted in black the bright red plastic of the decoder.

[lbriand_fr]

Programming the CV.

As I use a Trix mobile station, I can program my decoder directly with it.

 

1st, I've assign another address (CV01), and wrote it in my list of train .

 

After, I've calculated the top speed of the locomotive. With the default settings, my C53-43 breaks the TGV speed record… not good. So I needed to correct the CV02, CV05 and CV06.

 

The CV05 (Max voltage) is factory set to 000, and I try with 062. With this value, the locomotive runs at 120 kph. Normally, the top speed of the C53-43 is 110 kph

To determine the correct value, you take the actual CV value (CVa), the real top speed (Vr) and the actual top speed(Va).The calcul is CVa*Vr/Va. Here, it was 62x110/120=57.

I put this value (057), and my C53-43 runs now at 108 kph.

 

The CV06 (Mid Point Voltage) is also factory set to 000. I wanted a locomotive with a better acceleration on low speed. So I've defined the midpoint to 75kph. Normally, the value would be 62x75/120=39. In fact, with this value, it was running at 72kph. So, I've changed the value to 40, and now it runs at 74 kph.

 

The CV02 (Start Voltage) is also factory set to 000. I want the locomotive begins to move since the first notch. I’ve tried with 001, and it haven‘t moved. But with 002, it’s okay, and the speed is 4kph.

 

After, I’ve changed the CV03 and CV04 to have the impression of a smoother acceleration and deceleration (normally, we have to use the CV56 57 and 58 to do that, but I’ll play with these later..).  With the value of 002 on the CV03 and 003 on the CV04, the locomotive responds in a better way for me.

 

In conclusion, for my very first attempt to install a wired decoder, I found that it was easier to do with help and encouragement. So, thanks to Bernard and Martijn  :D

[Martijn Meerts]

Picking a steam locomotive as a first wired decoder install is quite an undertaking ;)

 

Especially the Japanese loco's with the frame that is near impossible to solder on is quite a challenge. Your install looks good, I'm kinda amazed the shell fit with the wires running along the side. I remember my C57 didn't have much space at all between the frame and the shell.

[lbriand_fr]

I've used a small piece of clay to check the space before begin.

There is just the place for the wires above the frame.

And on the sides, there is a space of 2 * 2 mm above the wheels.

[CaptOblivious]

A very nice job; thanks for adding another install to our growing library!

 

 

Using clay like that is a nice trick. I'll have to try that with the install I'm doing now.

 

The CV05 (Max voltage) is factory set to 000, and I try with 062. With this value, the locomotive runs at 120 kph. Normally, the top speed of the C53-43 is 110 kph

To determine the correct value, you take the actual CV value (CVa), the real top speed (Vr) and the actual top speed(Va).The calcul is CVa*Vr/Va. Here, it was 62x110/120=57.

I put this value (057), and my C53-43 runs now at 108 kph.

 

That's a nice shortcut. I carefully plot the speed of my locos with various values of CV05. Often, I get very non-linear response curves (see below for a chart of my KIHA110; very non-linear indeed!). I would expect that your method, which assumes a linear response curve, would yield the wrong result. But, I would also be wrong! Using your method (I won't repeat the math here) gets a CV05 value that's pretty darned close to the right one, and in a fraction of the time :D

[Bernard]

Congratulations on a job well done and on a steam engine no less. ;)

I knew the guys here would be able to help you, they're top notch. I just sat back and watched.