Chichibu's C58 363 derails

[miyakoji]

Not too serious, thankfully.  No injuries and it didn't flip over.  It derailed at low speed, around 20km/h, within the yard limits at the railway's Kumagaya shop at Hirosegawara Station.

 

http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0806/TKY201208060440.html

http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/choice485ninth/29929366.html

[The_Ghan]

hmmm ...

 

Looks like Mrs_Ghan was driving that one .... ;)

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[ToniBabelony]

I saw it on the channel from RailFanJP on YouTube:

 

 

Pretty unfortunate in the middle of the summer holidays. Especially when you consider the Paleo Express to be one of the most popular SL trains in Japan...

[Densha]

That video was taken a day after the accident but it doesn't seem like much is happening. Are they pumping water outside the loco with those tubes or something? It doesn't seem like it can be put back on the tracks, the wheels seem bent and such. I'm curious to how they are getting they are getting it back to the depot for repair, perhaps by truck?

[keitaro]

hmmm ...

 

Looks like Mrs_Ghan was driving that one .... ;)

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

i don't know about that must have been a team effort by mrs keitaro too

[westfalen]

That video was taken a day after the accident but it doesn't seem like much is happening. Are they pumping water outside the loco with those tubes or something? It doesn't seem like it can be put back on the tracks, the wheels seem bent and such. I'm curious to how they are getting they are getting it back to the depot for repair, perhaps by truck?

As it was not blocking the main line they may have been leaving things where they were until investigators were finished with their tasks, even on a main line you don't move the wreckage until you're told you can. There doesn't look to be much serious damage apart from the bent axle on the pilot truck so once it is removed or secured out of the way they should be able to crane the loco back on the rails and roll it away, I'd say that's what the men working under the front of the loco are up to. Hard to say what the hoses are but they could be removing water from the boiler and tender to lighten it for the lift.

[marknewton]

If the loco derailed at low speed, as it appears to have done, I doubt that any axles would have been bent. I can't be 100% sure, but judging from the photos the leading truck has simply dug into the ballast. More likely the radius bar and equalising beam would have been damaged by being twisted beyond their normal limits of travel. You'd also have to assume there'd be damage to the drain cocks and their operating rods, brake rigging, sand and rail washer pipes, spring rigging and equalisers.

 

But I'm curious as to how the thing derailed in the first place - are there catchpoints there? It's also possible that the leading truck axle broke.

 

The video appears to show a hose attached to the blowdown cocks, which would be the most effective means of draining the boiler, and a hose to pump out the tender. You'd not only want to drain them both to reduce the weight prior to a lift, but to prevent the water from sloshing around and making the lift harder to control. Even if the crew intends to jack and pack the loco to rerail it, draining her would still be the way to go.

 

I'm glad to hear the loco crew were unhurt, and I sympathise with them, knowing what a torrid time they'll have during the subsequent investigation. We have a saying on my railway - "If the accident doesn't kill you, the inquiry probably will!"

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[miyakoji]

There's already an image of it back on the tracks, the (currently) last in this thread: http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/index.php?id=1046927 .  I don't understand about any axles being damaged.  Is there really enough force to do that?  Even the axle of the leading wheels must be three or four inches in diameter, while not being very long (wide), the weight of the whole loco probably isn't enough to bend it.

[westfalen]

There's already an image of it back on the tracks, the (currently) last in this thread: http://rail-uploader.khz-net.com/index.php?id=1046927 .  I don't understand about any axles being damaged.  Is there really enough force to do that?  Even the axle of the leading wheels must be three or four inches in diameter, while not being very long (wide), the weight of the whole loco probably isn't enough to bend it.

I started the bent axle thing by misreading a translation of one of the reports, as Mark says it's unlikely at that speed and after closer perusal of the photos, doesn't look like it.

[miyakoji]

Yeah sorry, I wasn't referring to anything you had written, but rather, is it really possible to bend structural components?  Seems to me that the frames and drive components of a locomotive like this one are all cast iron or forged steel, and nearly indestructible.

[The_Ghan]

Now she looks as happy as a puppy that's just had a bath.

[marknewton]

Yeah sorry, I wasn't referring to anything you had written, but rather, is it really possible to bend structural components?  Seems to me that the frames and drive components of a locomotive like this one are all cast iron or forged steel, and nearly indestructible.

 

The only time I've seen a bent axle was one that was tested to destruction in a very big press. They're forged and machined from high-grade steel and range between 5.5 and 7 inches in diameter, so they're almost impossible to bend even in the worst accident. But they can develop cracks/fractures and break in two. I've seen that happen a number of times.

 

Depending on the design, age and origin of a steam loco, the frames may be fabricated from steel plate, or they can have bar frames that are a mixture of fabricated and cast components. Many late US steam locos had the entire frame, cylinders etc cast in one piece, known as an integral engine bed. They're tough, but I wouldn't call them indestructible, I've seen locos with both types of frames that have been damaged quite badly in derailments or collisions. The C58s have cast and fabricated bar frames.

 

Connecting and coupling rods, and valve motion are also forged from steel. Again, they're very strong, but they can be bent - been there, done that!

 

The only major parts made of cast iron in modern steam engines are the valve chest and cylinder liners, valve and piston rings, bushes and brake shoes. Everything else is steel.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

After looking at this phot, I wonder if the engine was derailed by trailing through these points?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

Could be, in that blog there is talk about a shunt signal, but google translate can't quite come to grips with railway terminology so it's hard to say what they are talking about, and in another photo a group of railwaymen are inspecting the points.

 

There's also this link with photos of the rerailing.

http://www.asahi.com/travel/news/TKY201208090504.html?ref=rss

[marknewton]

Now she looks as happy as a puppy that's just had a bath.

 

Ghan, I hope she hasn't suffered any serious damage, but knowing how well-maintained this engine is, I'm confident that she'll be throroughly examined and then repaired to a high standard. Of all the steam locos I've seen over the years, this C58 is an outstanding example of professional operation and maintenance practices.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[marknewton]

Could be, in that blog there is talk about a shunt signal, but google translate can't quite come to grips with railway terminology so it's hard to say what they are talking about...

 

I've shown these photos to a number of my mates at work who have an interest in these things, and no-one can quite work out what caused the derailment, given the limited information we have. I'll be very interested in learning more about this incident.

 

All the best,

 

Mark.

[The_Ghan]

After looking at this phot, I wonder if the engine was derailed by trailing through these points?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

That's what I thought, but I'm no expert.  It looks like she fell to the correct side for such a scenario to have occurred.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan