My First Japanese Layout

[Densha]

But with a wye, the same electrical problem as in a loop occurs: short circuit. I don't have very much knowledge of this but I doubt it won't give a short circuit.

[The_Ghan]

Densha,

 

It's a very typical wiring challenge in model railways.  For DC it is usually handled by double-isolating the rails and using a switch that reverses polarity.  With DCC an auto-reverse module is used ... much easier.

 

Either way, there are plenty of wiring diagrams available.  It isn't a big deal.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[the_weird_one]

Evening Guys,

 

As usual I'll reply to everyone's post in order, makes my life easier.

 

@Densha I actually want to scratch build all of the platforms anyway, with the one under the shinkansen line I'm drawing some inspiration from Nara's station last time I was out there where the rail lines were supported by timber clad pillars that went though to the concourse below - admittedly that was for a local line but I can't see why I couldn't do the same for a shinkansen line. I've attached the AnyRail file for this version to this post for you, still not liking the drawing ability but I like the other rail design software less for the tracks so its something of a trade off.

 

@cteno4 I did think about the double level viaduct track but really I don't have that much room on the layout so was content with just the one train running at any time. Though eventually I do hope to have a big enough space to allow for a layout mk2 which will allow me to have more than one shinkansen running at a time. I know that train lines and tram lines don't cross very often if at all in Japan but for me having it do so here gives me some extra level of interest on this layout as the trams will become an integral running part rather than just background movement which is what the shinkansen are going to be.

 

@The_Ghan I was imagining the end of the tram line in the middle of the layout as something of a terminus station, where one of the two trams service the station at the bottom of the layout and the other to service the spur line. The spur on the right hand side I'm imagining as the tram service area, but will be parking something like http://tokyo-rail.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=3546 in there for the majority of the time setting the scene as if people were restoring it while running CenTrams for the regular service.

 

I also tried to get a Wye out for that central spur but its not really possible space wise, it just looks wrong on the layout unfortunately.

 

I'm starting to also think of the terrain of the layout, and have the shinkansen and local lines raise to 1 inch in hight from the front and have the tram line drop 1 inch from the front so the station at the back would be set between two mountains where they are at the back of the layout in each corner, just an idea but would give me the tunnels that I wanted

[Densha]

I made some slight changes in anyrail, and in my opinion it's not better graspable how it will look in the end. The place of the 'parking' is right?

 

Are you actually building the viaducts yourself as well? Because you don't use the viaduct tracks in anyrail and tomix does have single track viaducts according anyrail.

Also the viaducts will be above the commuter tracks in the corners a lot, so the pillars may stand in the way or will be difficult to make.

[the_weird_one]

Thank you for that Densha, makes the layout a lot more understandable. And yes I plan to build as much of it including the viaducts myself, really for me the modeling as perhaps more fun than the actual running of the trains, the ability to draw something out and then make it is something I get a lot of pleasure from.

 

The top two corners I'm not too worried about as they'll be going through a "mountain" the other two corners are going to require some playing with when I get the track I think, but do understand what you mean they aren't going to be simple to make and get to look good.

[Densha]

I sort of understand that, I like building things myself as well but only if it looks better or don't like the already available ones. The price and your own ability is also something that plays a role in it.

 

Ah like that, I don't think the lower corners will look bad or be difficult to make look good. If you do the viaducts and the mountains right and place them at a nice place I think it will all work out. I assume you're not making the mountains symmetrical, I'm allergic to that. ;)

 

Oops, almost forgot to say that the small platforms on the sidings are those mini-platforms thingies that are used for the train staff to get in or out. I don't know how they are called or actually have a name, but it's these kind of things: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10179495

[the_weird_one]

@Densha no the mountains won't be symetrical, they aren't in real life so why model them like that? the one on the left hand side will be larger probably coming down to about halfway around the second of the 354 45deg bends with the one on the right not even coming halfway around that track.

 

And yep the inspection platforms are already on the shopping list, though may move them more towards the centre of the sidings.

[Densha]

Exactly why, you don't want to know how bad layouts I've seen in my life so I just warn because I don't know you well enough.

 

Maybe by making the commuter loop a bit smaller (the S140 piece at the right could be a bit shorter) you can make the Shinkansen viaduct not standing straight above the commuter track in the upper corners.

In the one below you see that I did that and added some scenery as well. I think it has a pretty nice feel to it in total and it feels much less cramped.

[cteno4]

One good trick for the mountains is to not get yourself too planned in on them in the software stage. Once the track is in you can crumple up news paper and use some tape to figure out your final shape and footprint. Let's you experiment more. Hard to visualize this sort do stuff in 2d or even 3d software. I know it sounds like old/low tech, but it brings in a very different intuitive design process that does not happen with software.

 

looks like you have a good handle on what you want, take all our comments with a large block of salt! ;~P layouts are really personal so make sure to do what you want!

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

[The_Ghan]

Weird one,

 

Go for it mate.  You're off to a great start.  I could harp on for ages about details and tips, but I've given you the major ones, which you've taken on board.  It's going to look sexy as a commuter rounds the corner and pulls into the station while a tram scurries across the lines during its limited window of opportunity while the shinkansen overhead drowns out all the local sounds.  I love it !!!

 

If you choose to go DCC and need help with sections and block detection let me know.  (I spent the weekend wiring another BDL168).  Otherwise, just a few wiring points and 4 controllers should do the job.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Densha]

looks like you have a good handle on what you want, take all our comments with a large block of salt! ;~P layouts are really personal so make sure to do what you want

Indeed, the layout changes I've recommend are partly personal for me as well, so be sure that you do what you really want yourself.

[Dani]

Hi,

 

This layout has been improved in a very good and fast way! In the time I think one small suggestion, two new versions with new diagrams have been published!!! Now it looks really great.

 

But I don't see clearly the use of the two dead tracks in the blue line (Shinkansen line if I well understood). If you join those tracks again with the main line you can park a Shinkansen there, let another arrive and continue in the same direction. Otherwise it has to leave the station in the opposite direction it arrived. It shortens the length of the Shinkansens to run, but from an operative point of view seems better to me.

 

If you want to leave it, may be you could consider to use the one in the top of the drawing to enter in the mountain and descend to a under desk level and create a hidden yard to store different compositions to run more variety of trains in the layout.

 

Anyway, fabulous design!!!!

 

Dani.

[the_weird_one]

Good evening,

 

@Densha - sorry about my previous reply probably came across more like me being angry with your comment when I meant it more in the jovial sense of surely people really can't be that bad. And your final edit makes a lot of sense but keeps the feel of the original layout so I'll probably go with that one, thank you for all your help with it.

 

@cteno4 - for natural landscapes I'm more of a go with the flow type modeler, so I'll get the track laid first then model the mountains around them until they look right to my eyes, other than rough position of anything no shapes or such will be decided, by doing so I tend to find that scenery looks more natural.

 

@The_Ghan - thank you for all of your help and advice through this design process. One of the reasons I wanted to get some feedback on the design was to get things to have a better overall impression, there are a lot of little things that can be done to make it 100% accurate but at some level that would reduce the creativity the current design allows me. But so long as the bigger pieces are better from a prototype and functionality viewpoint I'm happy.

 

@Dani - the dead tracks are basically for me to store the two shinkansen I plan on owning in a short period of time. The top one is long enough to store either my N700-8000 or the Railstar, where as the one in the centre of the track is long enough to store a Dr Yellow. Basically they are there to allow me to put one of the trains out of the way while the other one is running.

 

Once again thank you all for your help in getting me to understand how to make my layout better, pointing me in the directions of making it more prototypically correct though I've not always followed your advice it has been muchly appreciated. Now I just need to find a job so I can start buying things towards making it, however for the short term I may start making some of the cheaper to make "scenery" items so that the project doesn't stall at this stage. But as this is a general project page I'll probably add photos and stuff here when I get anything done - or at least thats my understanding of this sub forum, please tell me if I'm wrong so I'm not spamming the boards.

 

I suspect my first easy/cheap project may be working street lights as I'm going to need a fair few of them for the layout.

[The_Ghan]

Weird one,

 

You've been a good sport here.  We bombarded you with information.  I'm sure a few lurkers learned a lot just by reading the thread, especially about transistions and easements, which are so easily forgotten these days.  I look forward to seeing your layout advance.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[brill27mcb]

Actually, with Tomix viaducts you can run tracks below the viaducts. They also offer extended support beams that allow you to put the uprights out of the way to one side or the other to avoid tracks swinging in or out from below the viaduct.

 

Rich K.

[Densha]

@Densha - sorry about my previous reply probably came across more like me being angry with your comment when I meant it more in the jovial sense of surely people really can't be that bad. And your final edit makes a lot of sense but keeps the feel of the original layout so I'll probably go with that one, thank you for all your help with it.

I'm a bit late, but I was a few days away.

Nope, you didn't appeared angry or anything to me. I know that layouts are very personal so I just wanted to say that the way I gave advice was the way I would do it myself.

 

I just realized that in the latest version I detached the track just left of the corner at the right and on the lower commuter station. You need to put a shorter track that fits in that place instead of the 140mm piece, or you could go with the pieces attached to each other and the track being straight under the Shinkansen line in the corners (and looking a bit weird in my opinion).

[the_weird_one]

@Densha - sorry about my previous reply probably came across more like me being angry with your comment when I meant it more in the jovial sense of surely people really can't be that bad. And your final edit makes a lot of sense but keeps the feel of the original layout so I'll probably go with that one, thank you for all your help with it.

I'm a bit late, but I was a few days away.

Nope, you didn't appeared angry or anything to me. I know that layouts are very personal so I just wanted to say that the way I gave advice was the way I would do it myself.

 

I just realized that in the latest version I detached the track just left of the corner at the right and on the lower commuter station. You need to put a shorter track that fits in that place instead of the 140mm piece, or you could go with the pieces attached to each other and the track being straight under the Shinkansen line in the corners (and looking a bit weird in my opinion).

 

After I downloaded the file that you'd put up I noticed that the track had become detached, and fixed it with shorter pieces to keep the layout how you suggested.

[Densha]

Nice! I'm honored!

Looking forward to anything coming up.

[the_weird_one]

Got to get my convention out of the way next weekend then I can start looking at making some of the scenery items as track and stuff for a while is going to be out of my price bracket unfortunately.

[the_weird_one]

With my purchase of the Imperial carriages I took another look at my layout and had trouble figuring out how to run that train as it stood, so I've been playing again.

 

As much as I love the idea of and want to run Shinkansen I don't think thats going to be possible on the layout size that I am aiming have so its something to add to my layout when I have a train room *wishful thinking*

 

So again I've attached the current thinking and would like to get people thoughts and opinions on the changes made.

[Densha]

You can always make use a temporary layout for your Shinkansen. Kato has V11 and some others and Tomix has such handy packages as well.

Anyway, I don't see the purpose of those weird curves. But more important, where are your platforms going?

[the_weird_one]

Bugger forgot platforms, thanks for reminding me and have amended the outer loop to allow for an island platform there with the other platform the other side.

 

The weird curves are there to allow me to get a smooth flow into the station with the spacing that I want, but are going to be hidden within mountains or cut aways so you won't actually see them once the layouts finished.

 

Anyway updated to allow for island platform

[Densha]

I assume you're not doing a platform at the lower station of the inner loop?

[the_weird_one]

Not sure tbh the initial idea was to but I'm not convinced the layouts big enough for two. May have a look at extending the sidings to allow one though.

[the_weird_one]

Been a while since I posted, life's got in the way big time. Even more so since I'm starting my own business up now as well since the job hunting is coming back with plenty of "over qualified" and "too much experience" for the jobs I'm even getting interviews for.

 

Anyway I've revised my track again as though I did get the Imperial train on Yahoo! Japan between Fedex and some rather unscrupulous other people who signed for my parcel and have had off with it I never actually received it.

 

The shinkansen line has totally gone now, so I'll only be running the two commuter lines, though looking at running the 3 car Microace Ocean Arrow's meaning.

 

New to this layout is a diesel terminal at the top of the storage yard - inspired by http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-65.htm in that area I plan on having a couple of diesel freight engines and a Tomix Kiha58 ASO 1962.

 

I'm also thinking though I've designed the layout using Tomix FineTrack of changing to Peco Streamline 80 and using their electrofrog points. Two reasons for this firstly being in the UK its vastly easier to get hold of and I can buy bits here and there rather than have enough money to be able to buy a lot from Japan in one go, and secondly I'm not sure how well the Tomix point actuators will last and figure it would be easier to use servo's under the baseboard with the Peco system rather than trying to retrofit them into the Tomix track.

 

Anyway comments, thoughts, clips round the head always welcomed.