Credit Card Fraud

[The_Ghan]

The "Falcon" went off overnight.  AMEX put a stop on my credit card.  I had the phone message and email this morning.  But just to be sure, I looked up their fraud number on the web before making the call.

 

So, my AMEX card was used twice at NewEgg.com, a PC on-line store in the States.  Total damage: over $5k.  However, AMEX is thoroughly satisfied that it wasn't me who placed the order.  The money is being credited back to the account.  I've got to say, I'm impressed with the way the whole thing has been handled so far.

 

AMEX told me that the credit card details were likely stolen from a legitimate site where I shop on-line.  So, the fraudster has either hacked one of the travel sites I used recently or modeltrainstuff.com.  For everything else I use a VISA card, including PayPal.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[ToniBabelony]

Wow, what a relief it turned out better than expected. I hope the fraud/hacker gets caught somehow.

 

All the more reason for me to stick to PayPal and online-banking. However, I have to get a credit card someday anyway... No way of escaping it. Popondetta will be my biggest friend after that...

[The_Ghan]

Toni,

 

About 7 years ago an Asian uni student stole my new VISA card out of the office letterbox and used it to pay her uni fees, buy a new handbag, pay for two flights and accommodation to The Gold Coast, spent up on womens fashion and makeup, etc.  The silly girl shopped at the local shopping mall, Broadway, in Sydney.  I spoke to the uni, organised video footage from the shopping centre, and had her full ID which I handed over to the bank and police.

 

I even spoke to the retailers face to face.  I couldn't believe they let an Asian girl buy goods on a credit card with a male, westerner's name on it.  What the hell? 

 

I followed up with the police a week later.  The girl had spent over $3k.  The police told me the bank didn't want to press charges.  So, I called the bank, St. George Bank.  I was told it was at the discression of the bank's fraud department and they have a policy of not prosicuting for less than $20k.  So I rang a lawyer.  I was told that if the bank was refunding my money then I couldn't take legal action either because I wasn't suffering a loss.

 

Further, the bank honoured the transactions with the retailers.  Retailers know this and would rather risk the sale even when they know it's fraud because they usually get their money.  Remember that retail markups on fashion, accessories, makeup and clothing can be as much as 500-600%, so the "loss", which gets written off anyway, isn't really that great.

 

Us honest guys can't win.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

yet i wrote in my tax return $3 less by accident and got charged over $100 3 years later for a mealsey 90 odd cents tax i didn't get taxed for by accidently typing the wrong amount.....

[ToniBabelony]

@The_Ghan: oooh dayum, so you've been in the same situation before! That's a horrid story. Well, you didn't suffer a financial loss, but still... I'd make that girl feel bad. Have her have some sort of 'accident', channel bad vibes through to her relatives, or something like that (too much of that fight fire with fire?).

[Lawrence]

Probably happened to us all at some stage, however if modeltrainstuff has been hacked that has implications for many modellers, have you been able to find out if it was through that site yet.

Right royal pain in the arse but at least you have got your cash back Ghan

[cteno4]

ghan,

 

big bummer, but thats the good thing about a credit card, they usually spot the bad transactions pretty quickly these days and then reverse the charges or at least freeze those charges from billing you until the investigation is done. they are using more and more sophisticated hurestic modeling to try and model your spending behavior to spot the odd transaction. always good to call the cc when you travel outside your country to let them know as thats a big flag and a bummer if you get to a new country and your card gets frozen after you try to use it once!

 

toni, actually cc is a lot better than paypal and direct banking stuff when fraud like this happens. when funds are fraudulently withdrawn from your bank or paypal, they usually wait until they have investigated before retuning the money. with the cc the transactions are frozen and you dont have to pay the part of the bill for the fraud and it gets reversed out pretty fast (usually that day ive found). i had some fraud on a debit card years ago that was linked to my bank account but could be used at visa/mc. at that time they did not require a pin. wallet fell out at the gas station and w/in 12 hrs someone had drained $2k from the bank account. took about 2 months for the bank to complete their investigation and return the money. ive had friends with hacked paypal accounts have the same headache. i now have the paypal linked to a bank account that has very little money usually in it and is not use for anything else so it is not a big issue if paypal is ever compromised.

 

real problem for the modern banking world. i know, my wife works for a big bank and its a huge issue, but just part of the cost of doing business. i expect their limits on going after folks is all part of a calculation on what is the least cost with everything added up, not calculated on nailing the sobs for all of them.

 

there is probably some change in the future as there will most likely be a large shift in how the numbers and verifications are done in the future, but right now its a lot of competing technologies and infrastructure changes down the whole pike to get that done, but some of the better ones are slowly bubbling to the top.

 

one issue with combatting this on a more unified front by the card issuers (mostly banks) and the big cc companies is if they do too much unified it starts to look like collusion and monopolies and also the are all in competition with each other. not an easy environment for everyone to play well together all the time!

 

check your statements every month and call in anything that does not jibe with your orders. ghan's technique of having more than one card and using certain ones for certain things also helps. i have one for the online stuff, one for the bills, and one for general out and about stuff and one backup to fill in if i have a problem with one. works well to compartmentalize things if there is trouble and help find where it might have come from.

 

jeff

[cteno4]

ghan,

 

you should contact the folks you bought from recently like modeltrainstuff to let them know. big companies usually dont care, but little ones like kliens will probably want to know in case they get a lot of reports which would mean they got hacked. cant hurt.

 

jeff

[westfalen]

I've made a few Visa card purchases from M.B.Kliens recently and no trouble yet but I'll keep an eye on my account just in case. I guess they wouldn't target all the customers of the business they hacked in case it drew to much suspicion though.

[The_Ghan]

@cteno4

 

As it can only be one of a handful of companys I will contact all of them.  My AMEX is mostly used for regular scheduled payments like insurance etc. that are work related.  My wife's card is the one used for domestic purchases. 

 

With regard to the real problem:  The real problem is the banks attitude to "acceptable loss".  Quite simply, they won't prosicute until the amount is pretty high.  So a scammer can skim $200, $500, even $2000 without being prosicuted.  The fraudsters know this and so will only make small purchases, often reselling them on-line on Ebay and the like.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Darklighter]

Two of my Mastercards were blocked yesterday. Does anyone have the same problem?

[bill937ca]

I find it harder to get credit cards to work online.  The address has to be exactly the same and some websites use order entry that makes this impossible. When it doesn't work my credit card companies may call me. PayPal seems an easier option more and more.  As brick and mortar stores disappear shopping online has greater and greater risks.  Its not teenage hackers now but organized crime.  Companies just regard this as a cost of doing business.  The most secure sites have a two step authorization with a online password and a offline piece of ID that only you would know, but online retail rarely bothers with this.

[Melandir]

I usually use Paypal to pay, and linked to that account I have a prepaid credit card that is the same card I use on amazon and every online retailer

Prepaid CC does not work like normal CC, it's like a small account, if you don't have enough money on it the transaction simply fail

I usually charge it (from my online banking) just before I need so in the event someone will hack it they cannot spend more than 10-20 euros, the usual amount I leave there.

 

Another tip I know about CC is that you should never loose sight of it, I always go to the desk to pay the bill or the CC machine should come to my table, I'll never give my CC blindly to any waiter unless it is my prepaid CC

 

my bank will block the card if their software detect any possible hack, a collegue (that has the same bank as me) had the CC locked when he first used it in Thailand because he forgot to inform the bank that he was going there and their software belived that it was a fraud and denied the transaction

[keitaro]

a lot of Japanese cc are a pain in the butt and even though are visa or master they do not work for overseas transactions unless you specifically request an intl card.

 

1 thing i do like about buying with cc in stores and online jp shops is 95% give you a payment choice. You must adhere to that choice though.

 

Example I can choose to Pay at next monthly billing cycle. This occurs no fees or interest on my card and gets direct debited from nominated account.

 

Or i can say pay over xx months usually up to 12 or 24 month choices. (Of course that gets interest and they direct debit monthly so it`s not flexible)

 

I have been rejected several time but never had the bank bother to call me even though it is intl enabled. Even when i bought from the same overseas shop 4 times in a row same day minutes apart, because i decided i wanted more things lol 4 times.

 

 

Paypal is a consumers main choice for payment IN US and AU UK i guess, there are other companies in europe paypal similar etc but not common on sites out of eu.

 

The issue is with paypal is retailers don`t like them as they take too much fees and they always side with the customer even when it is a blatant lie.

 

1 Example i could give is Insurance EMS tracker says delivered post investigation said verified sent and delivered all those details to paypal they still gave money back ...

 

Lucky for me never been  a victim of fraud but i know a few people who have. I think it`S just as common these days to get your ATM card skimmed.

 

 

When i was in Australia I worked in engineering for mobile companies. They had an ongoing investigation with police for skimming.

 

It got to the point they had to block prepaid sim activation if it was not done on an Aussie IP Address.

 

Basically some one would take super authentic looking ID get a prepaid sim opt to activate themselves. Then some one would register the data from korea or taiwan (usually) then they would slip it into a skimmer and it would send the data back to the overseas server then they would strip your account of all it`s cash.

 

1 specific case i remember was the sim was active for 4 hours before blocked and found and in that time they took close to 50k from many for a $50 sim card and chance to meet the police.

Edited June 11, 2014 by keitaro

[Guest ___]

I have to admit, with how big credit card fraud is in the states and with the holes in the US ssytem, I am quite concerned about using any card in Japan. Their systems are older and more antiquated, and I fear security is even worse there. Good example, a few places I used my card in Japan the receipt printed with the full card number along with the experation date on it. .

[keitaro]

Really never noticed that hmm i pay for alot of stuff via cc easier i hate carrying around so much cash.

 

checked a few now seems my common shopping places don`t do that.

 

i wouldn`t worry too much about expiry but the 3 digits at the back i would and you could easily use the card online.

 

with a cc there is usually up to 3 - 5 years of choices so you only have to try a few and you have the correct one if you`re lucky.

 

the system seems old but it is secure. I am sure alot of the stuff is to keep people in a job and charge bank fees.

 

my friend lol`d at the passbook still being used but it does have a security component to it.. the lol was mostly due to Australia getting rid of pass books in the late 80`s early 90`s i think. yet in japan here we are 20+ years latter and japan still uses. different culture and job keeper in a way.

 

Few examples are Australia want you to only use an atm and do online banking, where japan want you to go to the bank and pay money for atm after hours etc etc.

 

jobs keepers i`m sure like all the wasted paper here in japan everything is on paper. then at the bank 4 people check your forms like the first 3 were not competent enough to do it???....  i remember applying for the cc the lady at the desk checked it. then she gave to some one else they checked, then to another person who had it for 5 minutes, then the manager looking guy and then they come back and say please wait upto 2 weeks for an answer lol.

 

It`s also harder to do identity fraud. Especially for a foreigner, you need what the gaijin card, the residency proof certificate from council, drivers license, some other card forget the name then your stamp also recorded at the council.

 

In Australia Identity fraud is easy make a fake water gas or electric bill with name address and pay for a cheap fake ID card and bam you have just purchased a mobile plan or anything under some one else s name.