Commuter/Passenger/Freight Train Formations

[hectorton]

    Was wondering if there is a website/book/database that a person can reference for the formation of a specific Japanese commuter/passenger and or freight (coal, petro, cargo, lumber, etc.) train.  As an example X train on Y line traveling between points A and B utilized Z formation and Z1 locomotive.  Wikipedia (English/Japanese) contains a limited number.  I have searched high and low for this type of reference material with negative results.  It probably does not exist, but any information is appreciated. 

[CaptOblivious]

     Was wondering if there is a website/book/database that a person can reference for the formation of a specific Japanese commuter/passenger and or freight (coal, petro, cargo, lumber, etc.) train.  As an example X train on Y line traveling between points A and B utilized Z formation and Z1 locomotive.  Wikipedia (English/Japanese) contains a limited number.  I have searched high and low for this type of reference material with negative results.  It probably does not exist, but any information is appreciated.   

 

The Tomix Catalog seems to be the best source for this kind of information that I've found. Doesn't cover freight formations though. I'd like to know if there were a better place too!

[bikkuri bahn]

First of all, English Wikipedia is useless for these specific kinds of information, so no surprise there.  The information is scattered about on the web, you must search in Japanese for specific lines and services, even then there is no guarantee you will get the info.  As far as publications are concerned, the roster books for JR companies published by Kotsu Shinbunsha (one for emu, another for dmu) list all trainsets and the formations according to the depot they are based at.  They note the route(s) they are used on, but not the specific services.  You must get that information elsewhere, either on the web or in magazines, while consulting a timetable.  For freight you use web sources, Rail Magazine's annual freight issue, and the JRF timetable, however, as freight is not fixed formation like EMU, the locomotive used may vary, depending on the type available at the motive power depot (though on flatland DC lines, it seems if will be EF210 more often than not).

 

For searching in Japanese, use the term sharyo hensei hyou: 車両編成表

This will turn up numerous train consist diagrams. For example,

JR West: http://hanwanetworkstation.web.fc2.com/hensei/jrw.html

Meitetsu: http://www50.tok2.com/home2/taps/trains/meitetsu/mei_hensei.html

Sanyo Rlwy: http://ya--ma.sakura.ne.jp/hensei/hensei-sanyo.htm

[The_Ghan]

Hector,

 

I've befriended a Japanese railfan blogger.  He is sometimes very helpful in finding this kind of information.  However, like me, he is more interested in passenger services than freight.  Otherwise, the three gurus I rely on for Japanese railways and history here at JNS are:

200系,

bikkuri and

jappomania.

 

There are, of course, many other knowledgeable people here who I depend on for other things, but for facts about Japanese prototypical trains I suggest the aforementioned members and making friends with a Japanese railfan.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[hectorton]

bikkuri bahn and The_Ghan,

 

    The information you both provided has been fantastic.  It's very much appreciated.  I am actually most interested in passenger train formations (just pre-war to the present).  I am particular interested in the Blue Train Formations (Series 24 Sleeping Car Limited Express). Which locomotives pulled them besides the EF66, how big could a formation get (16?), and which cars composed a 16 car formation.  I am guessing that if they did get up to 16 cars they simply added more sleepers, but I can't find any information for a formation larger than eleven or one being hauled by a locomotive other than an EF66.  As for Shinkansen formations I am interested in the opposite.  Which cars composed smaller formation (4, 6, 8, 10, etc.), and between which destinations did the smaller formations provide service.

 

    My curiosity is sparked by learning about the monetary cost/profit margin vs reliability/comfort balance that the railroad's constantly have to weight.  My guess is that when it was Nationalized there was probably some waste, and under privatization the balance is critical, but the comfort, romance, and better class of service have probably suffered in order to maximize profits.  I could be wrong on all of my points, but have been trying to do some amateur analyzes by comparing periods, routes, and formations.

 

    The more important reason is that I have noticed at the Japanese hobby stores that sell both new/used sets, and individual cars that there appears to be an abundance of Buru Torein (Blue Trains) for sale.  I am thinking that with some historical knowledge and with some after market decals, number/lettering transfers some very inexpensive, unique, and historically authentic sets could be compiled.  I think that this aspect of the hobby could be very rewarding.  Hunting/swapping for the right car, and refurbishing it to complete a specific formation.  All the shops have an area with all types of individuals cars in varying condition (spare parts only to brand new) hanging in clear plastic bags.  With my limited knowledge I have done this for a couple of sets and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Just wondering if any one else out there has done this.  Hectorton.

   

[CaptOblivious]

Hectoron,

 

It's been a few years since I looked at these pages, but I found that there are a number of pages dedicated to "Train Kit", a cute little JavaScript application for displaying tiny little trains in your web browser, that have really excellent information on Blue Train formations.

 

The Tomix catalogs aren't bad for this info either, but they typically only offer information on one or two specific running formations for each sesrvice.

 

I'm having some issues finding those links, but I'll post them here when I have them.

 

[update]: Look here: http://3.pro.tok2.com/~at-toki/tkdb/

This is a search engine specifically for Train Kit, you enter the kind of train you're looking for (in Japanese, of course), and it takes you to pages that have images for use with Train Kit. Many of these pages have detailed information on formations (so you can use the images in a prototypically-correct manner, of course!). Searching for 24系 takes me to these pages (use translator):

http://at-toki.chips.jp/

http://at-toki.chips.jp/TKpc24index.php

 

Hope this is helpful!

[bikkuri bahn]

Hectorton, thank you for your response.  With regards to blue train lengths beyond 16 cars, you have to remember that trains are typically restricted in length due to station platform lengths, and possibly siding lengths.

 

As for Shinkansen, shorter consists are due to the differing services provided and the demand, as you know.  On the Tokaido/Sanyo Shinkansen, the shorter consists are on the Sanyo Shinkansen, as JR Tokai's policy is to run 16 car consists on all its trains on the Tokaido Shinkansen Shin-Osaka to Tokyo.

 

As far as I know, with the breakup of JNR, services overall have improved rather than deteriorated.  I think a Cassiopeia or Twilight Express is definitely more luxurious than a bog standard 24 series trainset. Of course, many marginal trains have been discontinued and rural lines closed, but these were necessary for the JR railways to be viable enterprises in the face of competition from other forms of transport and financial reality.

 

If you have any questions about specific trains or services, please feel free to ask.  I may be able to help you find answers.

[westfalen]

I think when demand exceeded maximum train length they would run a second train, I seem to recall on one of my trips in 1990 or 94 the Hokutosei running in two divisions.

 

I think, as Bikkuri suggested, and the yearly cancellation of more of the remaining sleeper trains demonstrates, it has been more quantity that has suffered than quality since privatisation though I'm sure there are exceptions such as the loss of the dining cars on the Tokkaido/Sanyo Shinkansen, and riding a five or six car local train pulled by a DD51 was certainly more comfortable than being crammed into a single car Kiha with the same number of passengers.

[bikkuri bahn]

As westfalen said, when the demand required more cars, another train was usually added.  Hokutosei at one time had two trains in each direction, and during peak holiday periods, a third train.  

 

Here is information on the blue train "Sakura" on the Tokyo-Nagasaki/Sasebo route.  As you can see, train length went up to 14 cars.

 

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%95%E3%81%8F%E3%82%89_%28%E5%88%97%E8%BB%8A%29

 

Another valuable source of train consists are the old JTB timetables- they had a section which had diagrams of the ltd expresses and sleeper train consists.  By comparing these from year to year, you could see how train services changed and evolved. Of course, the current timetables also have these.