What will replace the E1 & E4 Shinkansens by 2016?

[westfalen]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

[Guest ___]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

Maybe it will run along JR-Hokkaido tracks. ^_^

[The_Ghan]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

 

*sigh*

 

Pardon me for thinking the passengers shouldn't be further inconvenienced by having them miss their station altogether. 

 

At least the driver made it back in time for his tea break!

 

Until they put passengers first Australian railways will always be second class.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[linkey]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

 

*sigh*

 

Pardon me for thinking the passengers shouldn't be further inconvenienced by having them miss their station altogether. 

 

At least the driver made it back in time for his tea break!

 

Until they put passengers first Australian railways will always be second class.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

No matter even if they put passengers first nothing will change from the higher up (Board level)

[Guest ___]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

 

 

Ah, bullsheep, DC Metro does this routinely. Sometimes, our doors open on the wrong side of the train. Sometimes, we even run 10 car trains with platforms that only hold eight.

 

We also have some days where we don't. We call those, Federal holidays.

[keitaro]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

 

 

Ah, bullsheep, DC Metro does this routinely. Sometimes, our doors open on the wrong side of the train. Sometimes, we even run 10 car trains with platforms that only hold eight.

 

We also have some days where we don't. We call those, Federal holidays.

 

they do paint our doors yellow so the dim can find their way in

[The_Ghan]

they do paint our doors yellow so the dim can find their way in

 

keitaro,

 

That's the BIGGEST load of bullshit about City Rail.  If we teach vision-impared people to walk towards the vomit-yellow door then they're going to have a bloody nose everytime because when the door opens it extends outside the car rather than into the car wall.  If a vision-impared person walks towards THAT then they'll miss the opening (which is not yellow) altogether !!!

 

Why is it only Australians who can't see a freakin' train door open?  The rest of the world doesn't need vomit-yellow doors !!!

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

That sounds like a dangerous practice compromising the safety of the passengers in the lead car, west.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

You don't open the doors if cars are not on the platform, that would be a one way ticket to centre link for sure, passengers get off at the next station and get the next train back, if there is an empty train or express control will get it to stop and pick them up.

 

*sigh*

 

Pardon me for thinking the passengers shouldn't be further inconvenienced by having them miss their station altogether. 

 

At least the driver made it back in time for his tea break!

 

Until they put passengers first Australian railways will always be second class.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

Hey, I once stopped at a station I was supposed to be express through and two people got off. They were probably thinking, "Wow, that's service". A good number of our passengers are too dense to know whether their train is supposed to stop at a particular station or not. Seriously though control weighs up the situation and decides inconveniencing a half dozen passengers is the better option than making several hundred or more late or miss connections.

 

Weren't we talking about Shinkansen?

[Eisenbahn]

It seems as though the name "E7" has already been designated as the new 10 car set based on the E2 for when the new extension to the Nagano line (Hokuriku Shinkansen) is opened in a few years.

 

Thus the E7  it is not a double decker.

 

The basic question still stands. Is there a new double decker under development?

[bikkuri bahn]

As far as I have read, there is no double deck design being considered.  JR East is emphasizing speed, and the current double deck designs are restricted to 240km/h, also, any trainsets coupled with those units are restricted to that speed.  The Hokuriku Line is heavily graded, so power and speed are required, not the best conditions for a heavy, large cross-section double deck design.  There is a reason the old double deckers as well as the 200 series are being shifted to the Joetsu Line- that line has lower passenger demands than other shinkansen lines, and speed is not a top priority. Once the double deckers are retired, E2 units can be cascaded to the Joetsu Line, as E5's and E7's will hold up the services on the Tohoku and Hokuriku services.

[The_Ghan]

West,

 

I'll preface my comments below (in blue) by saying that I know I should be blaming Control (there's satire for you) but ...

Hey, I once stopped at a station I was supposed to be express through and two people got off. They were probably thinking, "Wow, that's service". Truthfully? They probably got off the train half asleep and realised they weren't yet at their stop just as the guard at the back of your set waved them goodbye ... how long before the next local train? .... hmmmm ... A good number of our passengers are too dense to know whether their train is supposed to stop at a particular station or not. I read about that ... "Handbook for City-Rail Controllers, v 1.0"Seriously though control weighs up the situation and decides inconveniencing a half dozen passengers is the better option than making several hundred or more late or miss connections.  I know.  It's the lesser of two evils.  But in Japan they avoid getting into that situation in the first place ... usually.  Here in Sydney we have a City-Rail report every morning, just like the traffic report.  There are always 3-4 issues going on somewhere in the Sydney system (I use the term loosely).

 

Weren't we talking about Shinkansen?  Agreed.  Now, I'd better check the expiry date on my Medicare card ... I'm having drinks with Mark in a couple of weeks ... 

[The_Ghan]

As far as I have read, there is no double deck design being considered.  JR East is emphasizing speed, and the current double deck designs are restricted to 240km/h, also, any trainsets coupled with those units are restricted to that speed.  The Hokuriku Line is heavily graded, so power and speed are required, not the best conditions for a heavy, large cross-section double deck design.  There is a reason the old double deckers as well as the 200 series are being shifted to the Joetsu Line- that line has lower passenger demands than other shinkansen lines, and speed is not a top priority. Once the double deckers are retired, E2 units can be cascaded to the Joetsu Line, as E5's and E7's will hold up the services on the Tohoku and Hokuriku services.

 

All good points bikkuri.  Although speed isn't top priority it will be an added bonus of retiring double-deckers.  As I said in an earlier post, stairs and high capacity seating slow down loading and unloading of pax.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Eisenbahn]

Bikkuri Bahn, Thanks for your response on how the traffic mix will change.

 

The key thing in all of this, is  the  ridership statistic Noizumi posted showing an ongoing drop in ridership. It will be interesting  when the 2012 ridership figures come out to see if the downturn has bottomed.

 

The other thing I thought of is which trains will be coupled after 2016 when the double deckers are no longer in service.. The E5 & E7 are proposed as 10 car sets and the E6 as 7 car sets. The platforms hold the current 16 car coupled formations but would they take a  17 car or 20 car  coupled configuration?

 

From a personal perspective I will be sorry to see the double deckers go. As a tourist in Japan it was a treat to sit on the upper deck and look at the unique Japanese countryside go by, the small farms, villages, traditional houses etc etc. Of course the E4s themselves were engineering marvels.

 

cheers.....Eisenbahn

[keitaro]

As far as I have read, there is no double deck design being considered.  JR East is emphasizing speed, and the current double deck designs are restricted to 240km/h, also, any trainsets coupled with those units are restricted to that speed.  The Hokuriku Line is heavily graded, so power and speed are required, not the best conditions for a heavy, large cross-section double deck design.  There is a reason the old double deckers as well as the 200 series are being shifted to the Joetsu Line- that line has lower passenger demands than other shinkansen lines, and speed is not a top priority. Once the double deckers are retired, E2 units can be cascaded to the Joetsu Line, as E5's and E7's will hold up the services on the Tohoku and Hokuriku services.

 

All good points bikkuri.  Although speed isn't top priority it will be an added bonus of retiring double-deckers.  As I said in an earlier post, stairs and high capacity seating slow down loading and unloading of pax.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

i don't think boarding time is an issue for shinkansens as they have a set time they sit and leave the platform unlike regular passenger services.

[angusmclean]

 

 

From a personal perspective I will be sorry to see the double deckers go. As a tourist in Japan it was a treat to sit on the upper deck and look at the unique Japanese countryside go by, the small farms, villages, traditional houses etc etc. Of course the E4s themselves were engineering marvels.

 

cheers.....Eisenbahn

 

 

 

Ever tried the upper deck on an E4 Unreserved  car  3 + 3 fixed position seat with 1" foam padding? Not something ya bum will forget in a hurry.

 

Angus

[Sacto1985]

I think the emphasis on speed is why the double-decker sets are being retired. This is especially true on the Tōhoku Shinkansen from Tokyo to Aomori and Hokkaido Shinkansen from Aomori to eventually Sapporo, where it appears that most of the route will be run as high as 320 km/h (though I think we may see a 230-250 km/h limit through the Seikan Tunnel for safety reasons) so a goal of just over four hours' travel time from Tokyo Station to Sapporo Station will be possible on the fastest Hayabusa service.

 

As for the planned Horukiku Shinkansen, the top speed will likely be limited to 260 km/h due to the need for the tracks to accommodate heavy snowfalls on much of the route (including the line near the coast of the Sea of Japan from the town of Joetsu all the way to Tsuruga). The new E7 trainsets on the Horukiku route will likely look almost identical to the E2 trainsets used on the Jōetsu Shinkansen. As an aside, there is still controversy of where to route the Horukiku Shinkansen west of Tsuruga Station; my guess is that JR West will just route it through the town of Nagahama along the eastern shore of Lake Biwa to Maibara Station and then turn the Shinkansen line from Maibara to Kyoto as a quad-track main, with the final stop at Kyoto. (It should be noted that a quad-track Shinkansen main line from Maibara to Kyoto is possible, since the land between these two stations is rural enough to allow for a widening to quad-track main line. I notice this when I looked at the map of the area using the ZENRIN map data from Google Maps.)