So what do you think of Kato Unitrack?

[Guest ___]

Why does Kato's crossing signal cost so much?

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/kat-20650.htm

 

 

Cause they're greedy bastards over there, who want to send us deeper LOL.  ;D

 

But in all seriousness, I haven't found a good reason for the cost. Granted, the Kato crossing operates a lot better than those old Life-Like or Bachman ones ever did, and the gate activation is electronic. Also note you can set the sensor however far back or ahead you want. Still, more money than I'd be willing to spend.

[TaeOH]

Why does Kato's crossing signal cost so much?

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/kat-20650.htm

 

 

Cause they're greedy bastards over there, who want to send us deeper LOL.  ;D

 

But in all seriousness, I haven't found a good reason for the cost. Granted, the Kato crossing operates a lot better than those old Life-Like or Bachman ones ever did, and the gate activation is electronic. Also note you can set the sensor however far back or ahead you want. Still, more money than I'd be willing to spend.

 

I figured it was good quality, but was also surprised they did not offer a lower end version

 

I received my M2 today and I really like the switch controls and how they attached to the powerpack, too bad Kato does not offer DCC base stations.  Has anyone converted the turnout controls to DCC? 

 

I am going to set up the track tonight after my 4 year old goes to bed so I can have time by myself to test everything before she plays with it.

[Guest ___]

The M2 is a nice set. My buddy Daren just picked up both the M1 and M2 sets.

[CaptOblivious]

 

I received my M2 today and I really like the switch controls and how they attached to the powerpack, too bad Kato does not offer DCC base stations.  Has anyone converted the turnout controls to DCC? 

 

THis is something I've been thinking about, actually. I love the Tomix switch controls, and when I move to DCC for turnout control, I want to be able to use them. It's not easy tho! Look at this for a start:

http://www.digitrax.com/prd_statdec_ds64.php

[TaeOH]

 

I received my M2 today and I really like the switch controls and how they attached to the powerpack, too bad Kato does not offer DCC base stations.  Has anyone converted the turnout controls to DCC? 

 

THis is something I've been thinking about, actually. I love the Tomix switch controls, and when I move to DCC for turnout control, I want to be able to use them. It's not easy tho! Look at this for a start:

http://www.digitrax.com/prd_statdec_ds64.php

 

 

I figured it would not be too easy.  I have a Bachmann EZ Command (got it real cheap on Ebay) that came with an HO set.  I was wondering if I could start with it for DCC control on the Unitrack, but keep the Kato powerpack to control the turnouts.  I am still trying to decide whether I want to go Digitrax or NCE for DCC.  That is an investment I don't want to make lightly, not cheap to start over if you are unhappy. 

 

I love the track though, had fun putting it together tonight.  It is like night and day compared to the EZ track that came with one of my N sets. Had some issues tonight, the Life Like engine shorts on one of the Kato turnouts sometimes when I go too slow, when I have more time I will try to figure out why it was having an issue with just that turnout.  The Bachmann engine at first did not want to run at all on the unitrack, but once I help it get enough contact, it really did not have a problem with the turnouts even if the engine really kinda runs like crap.  I think these problems may be more related to the quality of these engines than the track though, but I don't know, I guess I could always have some problems with turnouts. 

 

I think I am ready for nice engine now. Though only reason I don't have one yet is that  I have not found exactly what I want. I may have to go undecorated and learn that part on modeling now.  There is a train expo in my city next weekend, I am hoping find something there. Brooklyn Motorworks also has a Kato AC4400 UP Building America/Flag Paint Scheme right now and that is real tempting. Thing is I really want a Rio Grande SD40-2, this is why I may need to go undecorated and model it myself. 

 

I had a lot of fun tonight though, experimented with some switching and tested out some Micro Trains coupler conversions I did this week. I really love this hobby.

[CaptOblivious]

I figured it would not be too easy.  I have a Bachmann EZ Command (got it real cheap on Ebay) that came with an HO set.  I was wondering if I could start with it for DCC control on the Unitrack, but keep the Kato powerpack to control the turnouts.  I am still trying to decide whether I want to go Digitrax or NCE for DCC.  That is an investment I don't want to make lightly, not cheap to start over if you are unhappy. 

 

That is in fact exactly what I do right now: Use my Tomix powerpack to flip switches only. The Digitrax Zephyr that I use has a nice function that lets you use a smooth (not pulse-power) DC power pack as an additional DCC throttle. In fact, you can use two extra DC throttles in this way. So I hook my Tomix track output to the Zephyr, and I can control the turnouts with the original switches, and I have two throttles! Very nice.

 

I had a lot of fun tonight though, experimented with some switching and tested out some Micro Trains coupler conversions I did this week. I really love this hobby.

;D

[TaeOH]

 

 

That is in fact exactly what I do right now: Use my Tomix powerpack to flip switches only. The Digitrax Zephyr that I use has a nice function that lets you use a smooth (not pulse-power) DC power pack as an additional DCC throttle. In fact, you can use two extra DC throttles in this way. So I hook my Tomix track output to the Zephyr, and I can control the turnouts with the original switches, and I have two throttles! Very nice.

 

 

 

I did not know you could do that.  Do you have problems running DC trains on your basically DCC track?  I have seen warnings about it not working quite right.  Or maybe I just don't understand what you said.

[CaptOblivious]

 

 

That is in fact exactly what I do right now: Use my Tomix powerpack to flip switches only. The Digitrax Zephyr that I use has a nice function that lets you use a smooth (not pulse-power) DC power pack as an additional DCC throttle. In fact, you can use two extra DC throttles in this way. So I hook my Tomix track output to the Zephyr, and I can control the turnouts with the original switches, and I have two throttles! Very nice.

 

 

 

I did not know you could do that.  Do you have problems running DC trains on your basically DCC track?  I have seen warnings about it not working quite right.  Or maybe I just don't understand what you said.

 

You can run DC trains on DCC power. Of course you don't get any of the benefit of DCC. Moreover, they hum when sitting still (it can be quite loud! But it is harmless). Trains with coreless motors will overheat on DCC! But I don't know of any N-scale train that uses a coreless motor (anyone?)

[railzilla]

German Brands Fleischmann and Minitrix have some Models with Coreless Motors. While its possible tu run a normal DC Loco under DCC i wouldn't recommend to do it over a long time. I just switch my Powerset from DCC to DC.  As mentioned before Digitrax is the DCC Supplier of Kato and Kato even sells the Zephyr Set in Japan. The Zephyr and Kato DC Controller also look similar. For a small layout just use the Kato pwerpack attached to the Zephyr and control the Turnout ith the Kato turnout control switch. I fyou wan tto automate you can either install a Digitrax DS51K1 Decoder inside the turnout or use DS64 decoders. The DS 64 can drive 4 independent turnout but to every outpt you canattach multiple turnouts. For crossovers and teh like you an save some decoders then.

[Bernard]

I will only run a DC train to test it out on the track before I convert it over to DCC and I make sure no other train is on that track. I avoid a lot of problems with this test, for instance lets say the train is defective, I will determine this through the test, it eliminates a lot problems later. You could do the decoder install find out it's not working and in truth the train was defective from the beginning.

[TaeOH]

Thanks Bernard.

 

I will be running a new train tonight on the Unitrack I bought because of this thread.  Went to a hobby show today.  I was looking for deals on Unitrack and hopefully pick up my first quality locomotive. Well I did find some goods deals, but passed on them for something unexpected.  It was more money than I had budgeted, but I could not pass on the price.  Bob's website had very much to do with this purchase.

 

I will post a new thread with my purchase later tonight once my daughter goes to bed.  I don't really want to bring this out with her up at this time.  Hopefully you guys will enjoy the thread, even though it is not a Japanese train.

 

Also someone suggested at the show that my Life Like GP38 trucks could be out of gauge and that is why it has problems with turnouts.  Apparently that is common with Life Like, so I may be able to fix it.  I hope so, because I think it runs pretty good aside from derailing while backing into turnouts.

[Guest ___]

LifeLike is great if you want a cheap little train to ruin in a circle, though I lost a lot of faith in them once Wathers got them. My buddy has a LL BL2 and it seems to run fine for him on his unitrack so far.

[TaeOH]

LifeLike is great if you want a cheap little train to ruin in a circle, though I lost a lot of faith in them once Wathers got them. My buddy has a LL BL2 and it seems to run fine for him on his unitrack so far.

 

Well after running the new train, its the turnout.  At some point when I get the right tools I will need to try to fix it.  The new train failed on it every time just like the LL. So the turnout itself is probably out of gauge.  Now off to post my new thread.

[alpineaustralia]

I have a Digitrax turnout decoder but I havent hooked it up yet. When I do (and assuming I get it right), il'l post a step by step.

[CaptOblivious]

I have a Digitrax turnout decoder but I havent hooked it up yet. When I do (and assuming I get it right), il'l post a step by step.

 

I know I'll be interested to see this!

[Bernard]

TaeOH - check the points on your turnouts make sure they are flush with the rails when the switching occurs, I have this problem a lot in my yard. Sometimes a piece of ballast gets between the rails or in some of my Atlas turnouts, I had to file down the railheads so they are flush, especially the plastic points. (but you have Kato switches, which are very good, so I doubt you need to file anything down, it could be a piece of grit in there.)

I have a couple of LL, they're not bad but can't compare to the Kato trains.

[Martijn Meerts]

I have a Digitrax turnout decoder but I havent hooked it up yet. When I do (and assuming I get it right), il'l post a step by step.

 

Remember that both Unitrack and Finetrack use a different turnout motor than pretty much any other track system. Unless it specifically says the turnout works with Unitrack (and therefor also Finetrack), it's not likely to work.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure Digitrax has turnout decoders for Unitrack.

 

 

Also, on a permanent layout, you might want to consider using a different system then the regular turnout motors. They're not very reliable in that they sometimes don't switch or don't witch completely. Especially with a computer controlled layout it turns into a very big issue.

[CaptOblivious]

 

Also, on a permanent layout, you might want to consider using a different system then the regular turnout motors. They're not very reliable in that they sometimes don't switch or don't witch completely. Especially with a computer controlled layout it turns into a very big issue.

 

What other methods are there for driving Kato and Tomix turnouts? I wouldn't even know where to begin hooking a slo-mo turnout motor, for example.

[TaeOH]

Also, on a permanent layout, you might want to consider using a different system then the regular turnout motors. They're not very reliable in that they sometimes don't switch or don't witch completely. Especially with a computer controlled layout it turns into a very big issue.

 

Yes I would like more explanation too.  Is this a DCC thing and the Kato turnouts do not control well under DCC?

[Martijn Meerts]

There are many reasons why a turnout wouldn't switch completely. I'm not sure Kato and Tomix have the biggest problem that for example Minitrix and Fleischmann have, but with a Minitrix turnout for example, the turnout motor has 3 wires. A general power supply, and then 1 for straight and 1 for curved. The reason for that is that those turnout motor have 2 coils in them, 1 pulls the turnout straight, the other pulls it curved. Sometimes those coils don't get enough power, and the turnout won't switch completely. Sometimes they get too much power, and the fork of the turnout will bounce back from the rail. Some turnouts have a mechanism that keeps the forks in place after switching, but even that tends to fail in the long run.

 

There are several ways you can minimize the problems. 1 of them is the slo-mo turnout motor that Cap mentioned. The problem with those is that they're either very big or very noisy, there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. They're also difficult to align.

 

Another option is to use servo's that are normally used in RC cars and planes and such. They are small, silent, cheap, reliable and near indestructible. The downside is that they're hard to implement (same as the slo-mo motors), especially with N-scale, and they require specific decoders which not many brands have yet.

 

There's also the possibility of using micro switches within the turnout. The forks will switch the micro switches, which can send a signal to the digital system and return the position of the turnout. This is FAR worse to implement than the other 2 options though =)

[CaptOblivious]

Tomix turnouts use the permanent magnets in the motor coils to hold the turnouts in place. I've found, however, that the screw which holds the moving rails down can come loose, making the turnout very unreliable, and that these screws seem to come loose over time. I hear the new model eliminates this screw, so we'll see.

 

There's also the possibility of using micro switches within the turnout. The forks will switch the micro switches, which can send a signal to the digital system and return the position of the turnout. This is FAR worse to implement than the other 2 options though =)

 

You've caught my attention. I've been thinking a lot lately about turnout position feedback, and how to determine the position of the turnout. If others have thought longer and harder, or at least more successfully, then I'd like to hear! Perhaps we should split this conversation off into a new thread? Dual-Coil Turnouts and DCC?

[SubwayHypes]

i have been having all sorts of problems with my kato unitrack, i bought the v11 double track set, and i swear to god everytime one car derails at some point in the set up.  i have tried to swap peices and make the transitions as smooth as possible but this is so frustrating!!  Once i fix all the track and make it smoove one way, the opposite direction will encounter some sort of derailment spot.  i dont understand it at all because the derailment joints are SMOOTH!!  they arent even uneven or anything, they feel smooth when i run my finger over it, but the train ALWAYS derails!!

[CaptOblivious]

i have been having all sorts of problems with my kato unitrack, i bought the v11 double track set, and i swear to god everytime one car derails at some point in the set up.  i have tried to swap peices and make the transitions as smooth as possible but this is so frustrating!!  Once i fix all the track and make it smoove one way, the opposite direction will encounter some sort of derailment spot.  i dont understand it at all because the derailment joints are SMOOTH!!  they arent even uneven or anything, they feel smooth when i run my finger over it, but the train ALWAYS derails!!

 

Is it always the same car on the same train derailing? I had something similar happen to me once. I found that one of the trucks on the motorized car was binding (not swiveling through the full range of swivel) because I had put it together incorrectly. It would only derail occasionally, and the spot could change as I rearranged the track.

 

Also, be sure to check that there's nothing on the insides of the rails (i.e., where the wheel flanges sit).

[TaeOH]

I think I know why Bob just wires every piece of track.  My turnouts are now causing me connection problems.  I think it is because I have pulled this track apart a lot and not they are just not getting a tight enough connection anymore.  It is really frustrating, I cleaned them and the engine thoroughly and still lose power in the turnouts.  And with the proprietary plugs, Kato does not make it easy to just run more feeders.  Not sure what I am going to do now, it looks like my temp track fun is over and I will need to wait till I can set up something permanent so I can wire all the points of the turnouts.  Or I just need to accept less than perfect performance.  The trains can make it through the turnouts if they are up to speed, it is just does not look right to have the train lose power temporarily.

 

It has made me realize how important a perfect track setup on my permanent layout is going to be.  I loved it when the trains were running around with no connection issues, just frustrating right now.

[CaptOblivious]

I think I know why Bob just wires every piece of track.  My turnouts are now causing me connection problems.  I think it is because I have pulled this track apart a lot and not they are just not getting a tight enough connection anymore.  It is really frustrating, I cleaned them and the engine thoroughly and still lose power in the turnouts.  And with the proprietary plugs, Kato does not make it easy to just run more feeders.  Not sure what I am going to do now, it looks like my temp track fun is over and I will need to wait till I can set up something permanent so I can wire all the points of the turnouts.  Or I just need to accept less than perfect performance.  The trains can make it through the turnouts if they are up to speed, it is just does not look right to have the train lose power temporarily.

 

It has made me realize how important a perfect track setup on my permanent layout is going to be.  I loved it when the trains were running around with no connection issues, just frustrating right now.

 

That's odd. Kato turnouts should be more reliable than that. Have you opened up the mechanism to make sure there's no dirt inside it? There's no reason to accept less than perfect performance. I've pulled my FineTrack apart and put it together dozens, hudrends of times without a problem. And I think that UniTrack is a more durable design. So keep looking, something's not right…

 

Also, I believe (I don't use UniTrack so I don't know) that this connector is the one Kato uses. Could someone verify this for me, by looking at their Kato connectors? These parts are cheap, and if it is a match, would let you make your own feeders all day long :D