So what do you think of Kato Unitrack?

[railzilla]

I know there is unitrack in HO but it's not available here in Switzerland, even N-Gauge unitrack is hard to get. The brands (Minitrix, Fleischmann, Arnold, Roco )of N -gauge tracks here are all very outdated and not very durable. Its not much fun building and operating a layout with it. With some good marketing Kato could sell a lot of unitrack here.

 

I only use Unitrack for about one year, so maybe i really should solder some feeders to the racks . On the other side i like T-Trak because there are no additional connection needed besides the track.  If everything fails i still can use terminal unijoiners between modules, not very elegant but it wil do the job. I will use the feeders near turnouts like you suggested. On the main turnouts are often block boundaries so i have to place an isolator and a feed anyway.

[Martijn Meerts]

Minitrix and Fleischmann are actually very durable, the only problem with them is the joiners, which are crap (but that's solved with feeders again ;))

 

On my father's layout we use Fleischmann, Minitrix, Roco and a little Atlas track, some of the track is well over 30 years old.

[Welshbloke]

I think the Kato points are well worth the money. If you consider the time it takes to use, say, Peco points with their own motors (which are intended for OO and tend to be a bit violent for N) then the Kato ones are far better value as they just work straight from the box. They're also easier to fit as you don't need to cut holes in the baseboard for a motor.

[bill937ca]

 

I chose Unitrack because it's bullet proof. Trains can run on the JJJ&E for hours without any derailments. The JJJ&E is 10x15' feet on several levels. There is no level track on the 130' mainline. Unitrack can be easily weathered and ballasted if you follow a  few easy steps.

 

Kato track is NMRA crap.  It has very limited options.  Where are the Y switches?  Y switches are extremely common on Japanese mainlines at stations and on single track minor railways at stations with passing tracks. Where are the curved switches?  The tight radius track? The elevated tracks radius are barely able to accommodate Shinkansen radius requirements.  That is why you now see Japanese clubs building 700mm radius curves which is far beyond any sectional track. Most of us are here to model something different.  If we just wanted the same old tired worn trains we would have just gone to the local hobby shop and bought the same old, same old.  This list is about modeling Japanese trains.

[Martijn Meerts]

I wouldn't say Unitrack is crap, but in all honesty, I wouldn't consider using it for a static layout. I have an oval of Unitrack that came with a Kato F3 set I bought (mainly because I love the Santa Fe warbonnet F3's and F7's), and I love the track for temporary layouts on a rough surface (aka, the floor.)

 

For static ones though, I'm generally more tempted to use track with no roadbed at all, but for my first bunch of modules I'm trying Tomix Finetrack because of its diversity and especially because of it's "mini" series of track (the tight radius curves and the small turnouts etc)

[Guest ___]

The tight radius track? The elevated tracks radius are barely able to accommodate Shinkansen radius requirements.  That is why you now see Japanese clubs building 700mm radius curves which is far beyond any sectional track.

 

With the exception of our Kato 500 16-car Shinkansen and one or two of the Tomix trains, we don't have that much trouble with our viaduct and shinkansens. Some are more fickle than others. Er don't run 700mm radius track on the JRM layout. Our new sectional layout is going to be slightly smaller radius becasue we're doing away with the dogleg curve on the back end

 

As far as crap goes, we assemble and tear down the club layout six times a year without a problem. If something break, we run across the street to the nearby store and grab some. I'd hate to think what would happen if we lost a piece of TOMIX track while setting up for a show.

[Guest ___]

I wouldn't say Unitrack is crap, but in all honesty, I wouldn't consider using it for a static layout. I have an oval of Unitrack that came with a Kato F3 set I bought (mainly because I love the Santa Fe warbonnet F3's and F7's), and I love the track for temporary layouts on a rough surface (aka, the floor.)

 

For static ones though, I'm generally more tempted to use track with no roadbed at all, but for my first bunch of modules I'm trying Tomix Finetrack because of its diversity and especially because of it's "mini" series of track (the tight radius curves and the small turnouts etc)

 

Think ya hit the nail on the head, MM, I think a lot depends on the kind of layout you;'re running, fixed permanent American style of model railroading, or traditional Japanese style which consists of set-up tear down.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi TaeOH;

 

From a quality and availability standpoint Unitrack is great. Its not perfect but no track is. Scale modeling is about compromise - its those things that you can live with. In a way its strange that many here buy ballasted track and then ballast it again.

 

I know almost nothing about Japanese prototype track but I like the space between 2 tracks in Unitrack much better than that found in Tomix. That's more important to me than having greater track variety since I plan to have double tracks throughout.

 

I plan to buy Kato for my trains but am looking elsewhere for tram track. Tomix seems almost ideal but its making me think I might be better off making a tram layout in HO where at least two products can make most configurations including a Grand Union. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_union).  Tomix has too many limitations, for me at least.

 

Ultimately I like Kato for the reasons cited in this thread, and also because the mechanisms used in turnouts is hidden within the track. Kato has been expanding their product so it quite likely they will add turnouts etc. in the future.

 

If you decide on Kato but then want greater track selection for a rail yard, for example, you can always add Tomix track and merge the 2 products together. If you are worried about the difference in the look of the 2 products you can either ballast them or do the merging in a tunnel, under a bridge etc so it won't be apparent.

 

Good Luck

[bill937ca]

Hi TaeOH;

 

I plan to buy Kato for my trains but am looking elsewhere for tram track. Tomix seems almost ideal but its making me think I might be better off making a tram layout in HO where at least two products can make most configurations including a Grand Union. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_union).  Tomix has too many limitations, for me at least.

 

 

That would be the opposite of what I did.  I started in HO and switched to N.  I only know of one model grand union and one was built in O scale by a modeler with over 30 years experience.  The track is very complicated, if you run with live overhead (as most do in HO) all the rails have to be soldered and the overhead has to be soldered and in precisely the right location to prevent dewirements.  Not even the pros get it right the first time. It is a huge undertaking.   You will find that all your hobby time is spend soldering.

 

You could use Luna's tram track system, but this is very pricey and availability is generally spotty.

 

http://www.ghbintl.com/Welcome.html

 

http://www.ghbintl.com/Gleissortiment.html

 

http://www.ghbintl.com/Spezialelemente-2.html

 

Even there a grand union is not offered.

[Bernard]

Hobby Dreamer - I never knew what a "Grand Union" was until your post so thanks for the information but WOW is that some complicated switching.

When I was designing my layout the one area I always dreaded was the yard, there are so many turnouts to deal with and so much can go wrong. I am constantly adjusting and cleaning the switches.

Looking at the diagram, and it is interesting, you would need 8 three way turnouts and I don't know if Unitrack makes them. (I think but am not sure that Tomix might, but do they make them in HO scale?) And I can't even count how many crossover tracks you would need.

 

I did find a 3 way Peco turnout in medium radius (and I think you would need a small radius) but it's in N scale. Here's the link:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/pec-sl99.htm

 

I don't want to discourage you but I think the only way to do a "Grand Union" is to hand lay the track and turnouts. I hope I'm wrong.

[TaeOH]

I appreciate the conversation in this thread.  I went ahead and ordered a Master 2 set, I plan to lay it in a different configuration on a Thomas Train table.  I bought it instead of the M1 because I wanted the switches, I also intend to extend the train table layout and will be able to use most of the pieces that come with the M2 in a Thomas configuration.

 

I chose this to be my test with N scale before I build a permanent layout.  If things go well I will likely incorporate the Unitrack into a layout with also Flextrack.  If I find that N does not have the variety or is just a frustrating size and go with HO for my permanent layout, I will always be able to run some N trains on a small scale.

 

In any case I do not think this will be wasted money since Unitrack is a quality product. 

[bill937ca]

Hobby Dreamer - I never knew what a "Grand Union" was until your post so thanks for the information but WOW is that some complicated switching.

When I was designing my layout the one area I always dreaded was the yard, there are so many turnouts to deal with and so much can go wrong. I am constantly adjusting and cleaning the switches.

Looking at the diagram, and it is interesting, you would need 8 three way turnouts and I don't know if Unitrack makes them. (I think but am not sure that Tomix might, but do they make them in HO scale?) And I can't even count how many crossover tracks you would need.

 

I did find a 3 way Peco turnout in medium radius (and I think you would need a small radius) but it's in N scale. Here's the link:

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/pec-sl99.htm

 

I don't want to discourage you but I think the only way to do a "Grand Union" is to hand lay the track and turnouts. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Streetcar systems with grand unions generally have one switch right after another.  You'll come to the right switch first, then the left switch. Traditionally streetcar switches were power on or power off activated, except Toronto uses radio control. The rails are girder rail (with a groove) rather than railroad "T" rail. I've never seen a grand union on a railroad and that would be because you are not working within the confines of a street.

 

Tomix makes a 3 way switch, but I believe it is sold out at this point. Tomix doesn't make any HO track, just small number of HO models.

[Bernard]

I appreciate the conversation in this thread.  I went ahead and ordered a Master 2 set, I plan to lay it in a different configuration on a Thomas Train table.  I bought it instead of the M1 because I wanted the switches, I also intend to extend the train table layout and will be able to use most of the pieces that come with the M2 in a Thomas configuration.

 

I chose this to be my test with N scale before I build a permanent layout.  If things go well I will likely incorporate the Unitrack into a layout with also Flextrack.  If I find that N does not have the variety or is just a frustrating size and go with HO for my permanent layout, I will always be able to run some N trains on a small scale.

 

In any case I do not think this will be wasted money since Unitrack is a quality product. 

 

Your money will never be wasted on Unitrack, it is very popular and if it doesn't work out you can always sell it especially the switches.

I like the fact that you're testing it out to see what scale you prefer. There are pros and cons between the two scales. It funny but the biggest complaint with modelers who do N. American prototypes is that there is more to choose from in HO than in N scale. But it is the complete opposite in Japanese prototypes, there's lots to choose from in N but very little in HO and generally speaking the cost will be higher in HO.

Another advantage with N is that you have more space to model. I can go on and on, which I somehow managed to do, but the choice is yours, but have fun!

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Bill;

Not to steal this thread but I appreciate the Luna Track links. I found these long ago and know the Canadian distributor but its cheapest at the site you posted.  Unfortunately, Luna Track requires expensive Tillig switch mechanisms. I've held the product and it good quality but just prohibitively expensive. I noted on another board that you posted the Luna Tram track layout from the Nuremberg Train show. An impressive layout!

 

My PC crashed in September and so have lost a ton of links but the HO tram track that is most appealing is: Easystreet.    http://www.proto87.com/easy-street--track-system.html

 

It consists of flange rail as the prototypes use but does require live overhead wiring. I think this is really a WIP but he is onto something. Of course there is also Orr track but that is a lot of soldering. Elsewhere on the site are items that can help with overhead wiring. (For those that do not know, the Proto-87 concept is to have model track that resembles the prototype as close as possible. Ita a nice site for info but it would be good to see more results on his tram track).

 

Its always a tough call selecting track. My heart is with n-scale but even as good as Tomix seems one has to fabricate covers and some track pieces. The chap that runs the Tomix tram site has improvised some nice track configurations but ultimately the track separation is too large for me.

 

Still, I really like the Modemo 300 trams - good quality; well priced.

 

Hi Bernard;

Thanks for the link. I spent one night searching every track on earth and found the the Peco track you recommend. Roco makes an N-scale turnout that is 22.5 degrees - not a bad start for a turnout.

 

I will probably start with Kato track and build a shelf tramway as a basis to experiment with. It would be possible to have trams on the ground level and then utilize viaducts for passenger trains. (I really like the Sonic 885 trains). It will be more of a freelance layout than a Japanese one but I don't think one can go wrong with Kato and Kato/Tomix/Micro-Ace trains/trams. In the beginning there will not be complicated turnouts/crossovers.

 

Hi TaeOH;

Sorry for stealing your thread. I think your final decision is a good one. Even if you decide to switch to HO you can always have a small n-scale layout. Besides the space benefits using N, a lot of products such as structures are much cheaper and don't require as much work.

 

Good Luck!

[TaeOH]

Your money will never be wasted on Unitrack, it is very popular and if it doesn't work out you can always sell it especially the switches.

I like the fact that you're testing it out to see what scale you prefer. There are pros and cons between the two scales. It funny but the biggest complaint with modelers who do N. American prototypes is that there is more to choose from in HO than in N scale. But it is the complete opposite in Japanese prototypes, there's lots to choose from in N but very little in HO and generally speaking the cost will be higher in HO.

Another advantage with N is that you have more space to model. I can go on and on, which I somehow managed to do, but the choice is yours, but have fun!

 

Bullet Trains interest me and if I model in N I will collect a few eventually, this is why I followed you to this forum. But for the most part I want to start with American Prototypes and I lean toward N because of space and the fact is I love passenger trains and long trains in general.  I am finding the choices limiting, but workable since I am starting from scratch and not necessarily looking for something specific.  I am debating on making Kato's Santa Fe or Amtrak collection my first complete train.  Since I want sound too, it is nice that these choices have sound options.  

 

I am also interested in Norfolk Southern since I live right next to Buckeye Yard.  Nothing available that I want today in NS.  

 

But I have time, I cannot afford to buy everything at once anyway and if I end up with the Kato Santa Fe, I could go in the direction of BN, Santa Fe and BNSF for Freight too.  Lots of choice there.  I actually have 2 N loco's right now, a decent Life Like GP38 Santa Fe and a cheap/crappy F7A Santa Fe Warbonnet from Bachmann.  This is one reason I did not immediately get the Kato Santa Fe...I would like a different road.  The Bachmann engine is crappy, but also a great track tester.  That thing will find any joiner out of place.

[Guest ___]

I think this is our longest running thread.  ;D

[Martijn Meerts]

Tom, older Bachmann is really low quality stuff, but their newer items can be quite good. For N-scale (and H0 as well for that matter) there are far better options than Bachmann though.

 

I have multiple scales myself, and I find that (in Europe at least, not necessarily that much usable space) H0 is this scale that's just in between the 2 things I'm most interested in.

 

1. I really like running long trains, something which in H0 requires an awful lot of space, N is much better suited for this.

 

2. I love super detailing scenery and locomotives with lots of bells and whistles. Obviously N isn't the best option there, but with the exception of a few expensive H0 locomotives, I found the detail in H0 isn't quite to my liking either.

 

In the end, I went with Japanese prototype N-scale as my main scale, and the one I'll spend the most time with. For the super detailer in me though, I've also started collecting German era 3 prototype 0-scale. It's big enough to get the details, but not quite big enough to be impossible to handle (like LGB and Marklin 1)

[alpineaustralia]

I use Unitrack and I agree with everything that has been written above.

But I must admit that there switches are temperamental and often will derail trains.

[Bernard]

Yeah...I think this is our longest running thread.

 

Alpine - I don't have any but I was led to believe that the Kato turnouts were practically "bullet proof."

I really like the Peco switches and at one point changed over as many as I could to them from Atlas. This is one area of my layout where I wished I spent a little extra money from the beginning and ordered Peco turnouts.

[bill937ca]

 

Alpine - I don't have any but I was led to believe that the Kato turnouts were practically "bullet proof."

 

 

While many modelers love Unitrack, I've seen lots of complaints on lists like Kato Unitrack about Unitrack switches. 

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KatoUnitrack/

 

A lot can depend on how layouts are set up.  A classic example is S curves will cause problems when cars are turning into a new without completely leaving the first curve.  That is a classic no-no in prototype railways and no model railroad track will solve that.

[Martijn Meerts]

Turnouts are often a problem. On my fathers' layout there's a combination of minitrix and fleischmann turnouts. The fleishmann are fairly reliable, and most of the minitrix ones are as well. But some just refuse to switch correctly no matter what you do. This is with the standard turnout motors btw, replacing them with for example a tortoise or a servo would solve the irregular switching problem.

 

As for the S-curves, they'll work as long as they're not too sharp. Adding a crossover (2 turnouts connect 2 parallel tracks) will always give you an S-curve, but they usually don't give you any problems.

[Guest ___]

I want to say that the Unitrack #4 are really tight and that the #6 turnouts are a bit easier to work with.

[Darren Jeffries]

I think this is our longest running thread.  ;D

 

Nearly:

 

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My Layout for pickup from Melbourne  42

Bullet train layout USA  39

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[Welshbloke]

Your money will never be wasted on Unitrack, it is very popular and if it doesn't work out you can always sell it especially the switches.

I like the fact that you're testing it out to see what scale you prefer. There are pros and cons between the two scales. It funny but the biggest complaint with modelers who do N. American prototypes is that there is more to choose from in HO than in N scale. But it is the complete opposite in Japanese prototypes, there's lots to choose from in N but very little in HO and generally speaking the cost will be higher in HO.

Another advantage with N is that you have more space to model. I can go on and on, which I somehow managed to do, but the choice is yours, but have fun!

 

Bullet Trains interest me and if I model in N I will collect a few eventually, this is why I followed you to this forum. But for the most part I want to start with American Prototypes and I lean toward N because of space and the fact is I love passenger trains and long trains in general.  I am finding the choices limiting, but workable since I am starting from scratch and not necessarily looking for something specific.  I am debating on making Kato's Santa Fe or Amtrak collection my first complete train.  Since I want sound too, it is nice that these choices have sound options.  

 

I am also interested in Norfolk Southern since I live right next to Buckeye Yard.  Nothing available that I want today in NS.  

 

But I have time, I cannot afford to buy everything at once anyway and if I end up with the Kato Santa Fe, I could go in the direction of BN, Santa Fe and BNSF for Freight too.  Lots of choice there.  I actually have 2 N loco's right now, a decent Life Like GP38 Santa Fe and a cheap/crappy F7A Santa Fe Warbonnet from Bachmann.  This is one reason I did not immediately get the Kato Santa Fe...I would like a different road.  The Bachmann engine is crappy, but also a great track tester.  That thing will find any joiner out of place.

 

I have a couple of the old Bachmann N F Units. Bought before I learned that the SP only painted E units and the Alco PA/PB in "Daylight" colours. I would forgive them that but both run hot and do not behave well.

 

If you're after a first Japanese train pack you could do a lot worse than the Tomix 92332 Asakaze pack. You get a superb loco and a couple of coaches, one of which has working directional tail lights. The loco in mine is silent and will run slow enough to allow it to couple to a train without moving the coaches - you can nose up to a train and actually see the coupler lifting and dropping. It beats Fleischmann N locos costing twice as much for performance and the detailing is up there too.

[TaeOH]

Why does Kato's crossing signal cost so much?

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/product_p/kat-20650.htm