simple microace C11 steam locomotive question

[worldrailboy]

I didn't think it would not be so easy to find any sort of disassembly info for non-electric locomotives....

anyhow here's the direct question: is the shell [including coal bunker] all filled out or is there actually some space inside for a little bit of additional electronics?

[cteno4]

microace does not publish disassembly instructions at all, they dont even do spare parts (any fixing is sposta be done by sending it in which a dealer in japan can do and it seems pretty minimal costs for fixes). other rub is that the ma design/engineering can be very frustrating to figure out. i ripped open lots and lots of n scale engines over the years but some of the ma are night mares, like not designed to come apart once assembled. that being said i have never pulled a ma steam loco apart, they may prove me wrong!

 

once in a great while you can get lucky and find a blog with some disassembly photos from someones project in japanese. here i think you did. i think this is a ma c11-207 that the guy actually made extra space in by moving the motor out of the cab to the front of the engine. pretty amazing what this guy was able to do!

 

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/komume1973/m/201110/1

 

from the looks of the size of the original motor it looks like there might be a bit of room in the coal bunker behind the motor, but hard to tell. of course you could do his trick and put a new motor up front then you would have lots of room for your electronics in the cab along with an engineer figure and view thru the cab!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[worldrailboy]

cteno4 I got to thank you a lot, only had a look at some of the many photos but hmm even without trying to relocate the motor as well I think it could work out for me either way

[cteno4]

you are most welcome, btw name is jeff.

 

yeah the moving the motor is quite a feat with some major surgery! might be some space behind the motor there in the coal box.

 

good luck i will be interested in hearing what you do and take pictures if you do pull things apart, always curious how the steams are internally, but never tear into them unless there is a major issue to fix!

 

jeff

[keitaro]

wrb is this for dcc?

[worldrailboy]

I was still thinking about whether I wanted to stick with simple track blocks (a few junctions mostly) to a simple DC control panel or somehow try decide how to go digital with the many small locomotives.

 

the original reason I asked about the C11 chassis was because I thought about the unusual idea of replacing the injection coal load in the bunker with false-bottom model coal load not directly glued back into place but struck to a glued-in little push switch. and the swich itself would toggle a constant voltage capacitor charged circuit for the directional grain lights

 

I realize that might sound like an interesting task but I've done a similar thing some time ago with an atlas Alco RS3 but using conventional sized electronic components. the one voltage regulator itself sure took up almost the whole cab space but using smts (except for the few conventional resistors, I can't even solder THESE!) for this newer steam version should probably fit

 

I'll have to look at these blog photos some more, I may not try the idea so lets just wait and see what happens with that.

 

it wouldn't be new to do this to brake cars tho for I remember seeing at least two different examples of it somewhere before

[keitaro]

i wanted to add a capacitor to my c11 as it gets stuck on my double crossover the hope was it would keep it going to avoid this.

 

there is room on my wartime version.

[westfalen]

The body shell just pops off, spread it gently just in front of the cab and lift up and forward, take it slow and careful so as not to break anything. There is heaps of room in the coal bunker, that's where I put the decoders in my two.

[worldrailboy]

cteno4 I found that blog a little long and confusing so I never thought much about it till looking at older dcc topics on this forum I came across this instead http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~toyoyasu/tap1.htm

not microace probably but I like the last photo which at least finally clearly shows the internal construction

 

I guess that if I bought one of these and shaved most of the rear-located boiler weight out I could use one of these small can motor [that I've been talking about in Platform 4 electrical] mounted backward from the original position and I've got the cab all to myself

 

looking at the way the single headlight bulb is mounted with lot of empty space around it does make me wonder about it being more plausible to fit two very small grain bulbs to simulate the 'crab eye' effect (compared to the three north america steamers I have being completely solid all the way forward making it hard to do anything there!)

[cteno4]

nice pictures of the disassembly! wish there were a site with this done for all trains to how to pull them apart!

 

only concern with the tiny cam motors in a steamer like this is if they will have the needed torque. steamers usually have a bit more gearing and then the articulation to move as well, so seems like more torque might be needed. most of the tiny motor drives are very direct drive with a worm gear and a gear on the axle and go! also usually hauling very light weight frames around.

 

what about smd led for the lights? will require a little circuitry, but will work in a tighter space and works well with a light tube you could fashion for the lamps.

 

the C11 has caught my eye, im liking these little guys after picking up the little kawai B6 the other day and a microace C56 on ebay last month. at $65 its not a horrible price either!

 

jeff

[worldrailboy]

yeah I have to check about the motor performance but just keep in mind that I'm running short trains on somewhat generous curves so it might not be as much problem as compared to someone else trying to run a train of eleven long coaches on small tomix/kato curves?

 

heh I've looked at a few kawai items, for most part now I'm just going with the C11 as the only tank steam locomotive in my small rooster, the rest being tender ones such as the C55 and 9600

[keitaro]

question on this.

 

Is your c11 a little jerky?

 

my c11 wartime ver and my 49654 steamer are a bit jerky. not very good pickup.

 

Also does anyone find that loosening the 2 screws on the bottom a 1/4 to a half turn the loco will run a bit smoother?

[cteno4]

keitaro,

 

have you tried lubing it? I have had a number of MA trains come a bit dry and rough on the gears. dont know if its the lubrication they are using or just didnt get hit quite right, but a bit of lubing carefully made a huge difference. alpine's lubing thread is great to get some ideas.

 

ive also had some jerky trains caused from contacts not quite connecting correctly and a careful disassembly/reassembly and it fixed it. never had this problem with a steamer, but have had the lubing help. some older second hand steamers i have bought were so full of crap when i opened them up they required a total cleaning...

 

a new ma though im guessing it may be just a bit dry. a little rough running makes them kind of do a big wiggle on the tracks and gives poor contact with the rail. the old kawai B6 i just picked up has been happier after a little lubing.

 

loosening the bottom screws sounds like it might be loosening the gear box housing some.

 

jeff

[nightshade]

Had My MA c-11 171 past 10 years (dc) and runs great

(i guess it will be a pain to do dcc on it), never had problems with it (but cant run on my coffee table do )

 

Oww there is the car set mod too on that page (really want the suzuran car set .... was sbout to get last summer

but it was 18,000 yen .... gona try to get on yahoo auctions if not, gonna get it at akihabra...... )

[keitaro]

Just ordered the aero wave lube pack and track cleaner and conditioner that alpine linked.

 

Been meaning to for ages I'm scared to open up steam loco's though. If you move something out by the slightest you’re in a whole heap of trouble.... at least that been my experience.

 

I need the lube more though for my MA kiha 91 and my shinkansen 500 nozomi sayonara set as the motor makes a rubbing / vibrating noise a little.

 

Though I think it may be the rubber cover is not on right and making the vibration I will lube anyway.

 

Is it bad to oil the armature and pistons etc on a steamer?

 

I have somehow managed to get a chip on the arm of the realline d51-96 and it rubs there now. was hoping lube might make it a bit better.

 

Don't ask me how it got there I have no idea either happened while running

[nightshade]

i think i might do the remotor (and use the tomix chasis)

that way it will give me more space and i think can fit

MRC sound decoder in it too...  that would be one nice c-11 171

(plan ongetting the suzuran car set anyways) , might also get the 207 while at it....  but for sure want sound and dcc on my 171 ........  project for a weekend (as soon as gonna get the tomix chasis....  :)  )