Block Signalling

[Psychiclord]

I am planning a large investment in a Kato based Tramway setup.

 

I currently operate an semi automated G Gauge outdoor railway, but the intensive service operated would suit trams better....... but the long British winters are pushing me back indoors - and to N gauge trams.

 

I am looking to have a seven routes navigating between three small Japanese towns. Trams would be manually run out of the Tram depot to the 'entry' point to begin their route. At this point automation takes over, and will autorun the tram until I operate the switch that will divert the tram off its route and into a holding siding ready to be manually driven back to the depot.

 

Using Heathcote products, trams will automatically slow approaching a tram stop and halt for a given period of time (set randomally to allow some cars to non-stop). Routes will be a mixture of loops and there and back (automatic shuttling). Each route will have colour code cars, and will have different frequencies.

 

I plan to use 4 or 5 Kato unitram 90 degree crossings, these will need block signalling protection to avoid the obvious.

 

The Heathcote IR units that allow tram detection, require a hole in the tramway - and would look odd (unless anyone has any ideas how to hide it). So I was wondering what else is out there. My garden railway uses reeds and magnets under each train, but these are very unrealiable.... with collisions fairly common.

 

So any thoughts please?

[rpierce000]

I am not familiar with Heathcote products, but there are a bunch of occupany detectors out there based on the resistance change of the wheels. DCC also has a bunch of detection systems that might interface well. The problem there is I have NO idea how to get DCC into a Kato tram, they are space poor.

 

I just punched "model train detection circuits" into google. Lots of responses,this one seemed to fit you best.

 

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/CircuitIndex.html#Current

 

 

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

Bob Pierce

BT Trains

[Martijn Meerts]

Like Bob said, it'd be easy enough to do using DCC. The Kato trams aren't the easiest to install a decoder into, because the motors are low voltage ones. There is a voltage reduction circuit built in, which should be usable.

 

Also, I believe there is a guy in Japan who's done drop-in decoders for Kato's Unitrams, someone might still have the link.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Be forewarned.

 

Each of the Kato Portram/Centrum Tram motors are 3.3v.

 

The guys at TCS tried installing a decoder for me until Kato told them the truth about the motors.

 

We had the cv's figured out so that the interior lighting would stay on and the tail lamps would be on when parked. Not sure if parked dimming was an option.

 

I to have quite the plans to run 8 trams at once in blocks.

 

I can install the tram switches later and rework the blocks.

 

Also the Kato track insulators are paper thin. Recommend snipping the rail a hair to create a true gap. Use the black insulator as a visual indicator of where the gaps are.

 

I fill all the rail gaps with 0.020" or 0.030" styrene strips then drop some thin CA over it. Buff off the glue and check for smoothness.

[nik_n_dad]

Also, I believe there is a guy in Japan who's done drop-in decoders for Kato's Unitrams, someone might still have the link.

 

I think this is it.  I haven't ordered and decoders yet, but keep planning to.

 

http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/indexj.htm

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I'm waiting for a reply from them.

 

I love my AAR3 Current Detecting Reverser but, with DC the power has to shut off to stop the Tram and therefore the interior lamps are off as well.

 

That confuses the imagination.

 

Couldn't a computer control the DCC Trams?

[westfalen]

Also, I believe there is a guy in Japan who's done drop-in decoders for Kato's Unitrams, someone might still have the link.

 

I think this is it.  I haven't ordered and decoders yet, but keep planning to.

 

http://www.snjpn.com/ngdcc/indexj.htm

I've had one of the decoders for about a year now but since I've haven't built anywhere to run my trams I've haven't got around to installing it, other projects keep bumping it down the priority list. I've used some of his other decoders and they seem to work well.

 

I think DCC would be a great way to run trams, you would have to keep a look out for the tram in front of you like the real thing (and don't forget to obey traffic lights and stop signs).

[Guest Closed Account 1]

JRMI to the rescue.

 

http://jmri.org/help/en/package/jmri/jmrit/beantable/TransitTable.shtml

 

Transits and the Transit Table

 

In user-specified areas of a Transit, alternate Sections may be designated. For example, to move between the "2nd" and "4th" Sections in a Transit, there may be multiple "3rd" Sections, any of which might be used to travel between the 2nd and 4th Sections. Alternate Sections provide for passing tracks and staging yards.

 

Transits also provide for reverse loops. To provide for back-and-forth running, e.g. for trolley cars, an option is provided in Dispatcher to automatically reverse the direction of running through a Transit when the train reaches the end of its Transit, and have the train run in reverse to the beginning of its Transit.

 

Transits support both manual and automatic operation of trains. When a train is running in automatic mode, Transits provide for Actions to be activated when a train reaches a designated Section in the Transit. An Action may be initiated by a number of events, for example, when the train enters a Section, or when the train stops. A variety of actions are possible, such as pausing the train for a user-designated number of fast clock minutes (a station stop), reverting to manual mode for local manual operation, or sounding the horn on a sound decoder.

[Psychiclord]

Thanks for your responses everyone.

 

I forgot to say that I prefer to keep with good old fashioned analog. I know it will be a heap more wiring, but I am quite used to that with over 1.5 miles of wire used within my garden layout. The big bonus will be that being indoors, the nightmare of wire breaks... and trying to locate them, will be a thing of the past.

 

I am counting on Kato bringing at least one variation of a unitram double point (turnout). In my opinion, out of all the posible combinations, the most logical and useful would be a double tracked 'T'. This would allow most of us to build up some pretty complex city systems. Failing this I would have to look at Tomix, which could do the job, but would need to be hidden from view, or confined to tram only right of way, where the overwide spaced could be more reasonably justified.

 

My garden layout could (in theory at least) run up to 24 trains. I never got past 18, as they needed all my attention, and lots of jumping and running around the garden to deal with decoupled cards, or critters on the line. I am planning to run up to 19 trams on my new layout (rush hour level), with no decoupling to worry about, I hope to be able to accomplish this. Non-rush hour level service is planned to be 11 trams. Using 100% Kato Portotrams should ensure similar operationg characteristics..... unless you guys know otherwise that is.

 

I will now take a look at all the links you have provided.

[IST]

Using 100% Kato Portotrams should ensure similar operationg characteristics..... unless you guys know otherwise that is.

 

Today I run all of my five Portrams on the basic Unitram set. 3 were on the outer circle and 2 in the inner circle. The characteristics of the trams were similar, but not the same: the red Portram was the slowest, the green one the fastest. I had to change the direction in every 2 minutes (or hold one or two trams with my hands), because the faster trams reached the previous tram. So I think the speed of the trams in analog won't be the same.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Lol. My Red one is the fastest by a mile.  Run them through an oval with one side a zig zag and they will get faster..

 

Snjpn said 1870 yen per decoder. 2 per Tram plus led and poles.

 

What's wrong with the existing lamps and poles?

[Martijn Meerts]

Psychiclord, the statement that DCC requires a lot less wiring than analog control is just a myth :) A DCC layout with block control, signals, occupancy detection etc. requires almost as much wiring as a similar analog layout ;)

[Psychiclord]

So it would appear there is a variation between the Portatram units.

 

The best thing would be to reduce the risk of this becoming an issue by running all the trams (once I get them), and changing the body shells so that cars of a similar handling carry the same livery. As each route will be allocated a different colour this should mitigate the problem.

 

I am working on the logic layout design.... once this is in place I have a blueprint to create the physical design. 10 routes now planned, with 15 terminals. With 22 trams needed to maintain rush hour service, £2K is required just for the trams alone. Still at least, they do not have to all be ordered at the same time.

 

Any Kato employees visit on this site?  Turnouts are going to be essential, whilst I can use unitrack in the outer areas, I need to wait for a unitram turnout solution. 

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Speed matching? Lol

 

I'm going to be using dc reversing modules for now.

 

Speed differences make the layout interesting.

 

Since when did mass transit march on the same foot?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

So it would appear there is a variation between the Portram units.

 

The best thing would be to reduce the risk of this becoming an issue by running all the trams (once I get them), and changing the body shells so that cars of a similar handling carry the same livery.

 

I set up a 6 foot oval of Unitram Track plates to exercise the Trams while the main layout is slowly being worked on and work out any automation bugs.

 

#1 running 4 trams on this oval is more interesting than just 2. Final project is going to look cool with one tram per quarter.

 

#2 don't bother swapping body shells as there are too many variations to alter the speeds of each Tram (any brand). Wheel slippage, tracks variation, friction, loose articulation, are all 8 wheels really touching the track?, etc.

 

My replacement red portram is still the Z. Quick off the line, and just gets better with time.

 

See my topic on Saggy Bottom Trolley.