ICE3 Best Set

[medusa]

As I see them nearly every day, I can tell you that there is a design difference in ICE-3, -T, Velaro and what may come next. ICE1 and -2 are a totally different story though.  I also enjoy the ICE3 most. BTW, it has the same designer as the Shinkansen 500, Alexander Neumeister (no fun!).

 

Still the Minitrix set is the only source for it. Basic 2nd hand sets (2 cab cars plus motor  unit) go for 100+ Euros in the Bay. Additional cars have become incredibly expensive, expect 50 Euros or more for one.

As the writers above stated, it has no interior, no light and (my addition) ugly looking pantographs (chromium!!). There are second-sourced lighting kits available but expect to pay extra large Euros for it. (As Suica once stated, in Germany model train stuff has to be expensive to be interesting to the common model railroader.)

Edit: also, don't expect different car numbers. There is exactly one additional car of 1st class and one of 2nd class. If you want a full length ICE3, buy multiple of them. :(

 

One or two years ago I got a cheap ICE3 basic unit in a really bad shape and repaired it. The motor however was fine (never had problems with it) but of course no match if compared to the Kato standard. To avoid the high prices of additional cars I bought the Fleischmann ICE-T ones which were cheap at that time and made a coupler adaptor for them. (ICE-3 and -T have the same train profile just the doors are ina different position -- modelers license since it anyway runs on the Shinkansen viaduct. :P). BTW, Fleischmann stuff meanwhile has become as expensive as Minitrix.

 

If there is interest, I can take some photos from what I have.

Edited April 18, 2017 by medusa

[kvp]

This is an ICE train that I'd like to buy.

Except it is intentionally shown at a platform, to hide the jnr kiha391 like bogie arrangement. That is a real nightmare for reliable high speed running, so it's not an accident that nobody builds trains like that. (some trams do use this layout, which is good for tight turns at low speed, but little else)

 

ICE1 and 2 are loco hauled push pull trains, very similar to most TGV-s. The more modern ICE-s are proper EMU-s and if you want a model of the ICE 3 in N, then get a full boxed set with all cars in it as the basic sets are not really upgradable. The Arnold one has all the bells and whistles, including headlights, proper numbering and pantographs. (it's even in stock at some retailers)

[gavino200]

I think Arnold is going to release the Spanish version of the Velaro. But besides that, I don't think anybody is releasing a ICE-3 this year. You can always try your luck on EBay or the likes for a second hand model. But... Minitrix is going to release the ICE-1 later this year. http://www.trix.de/de/produkte/details.html?tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bart_nr%5D=16941&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Brl%5D=55%2C10&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bbacklink%5D=55&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bpage%5D=2&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bperpage%5D=40&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bera%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bnewonly%5D=0&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgaugechoice%5D=7&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bgroupchoice%5D=&tx_torrpdb_pi1%5Bsubgroupchoice%5D= The ICE-4 is going to be released later this year by Kato/Lemke, with power couplings. I would go for that, if you like the ICE-4 looks that is. http://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/ICE-4-DB-Ep.VI-7tlg.-Grundgarnitur

 

From those options, I think I'd wait for the ICE-4 from Kato/Lemke. I can't see that they're taking pre-orders. Any idea where you can pre-order this thing?

 

There are some people earlier in this thread unimpressed with the Lemke power-coupling system. Know if it's been improved recently?

[gavino200]

As I see them nearly every day, I can tell you that there is a design difference in ICE-3, -T, Velaro and what may come next. ICE1 and -2 are a totally different story though.  I also enjoy the ICE3 most. BTW, it has the same designer as the Shinkansen 500, Alexander Neumeister (no fun!).

 

Still the Minitrix set is the only source for it. Basic 2nd hand sets (2 cab cars plus motor  unit) go for 100+ Euros in the Bay. Additional cars have become incredibly expensive, expect 50 Euros or more for one.

As the writers above stated, it has no interior, no light and (my addition) ugly looking pantographs (chromium!!). There are second-sourced lighting kits available but expect to pay extra large Euros for it. (As Suica once stated, in Germany model train stuff has to be expensive to be interesting to the common model railroader.)

Edit: also, don't expect different car numbers. There is exactly one additional car of 1st class and one of 2nd class. If you want a full length ICE3, buy multiple of them. :(

 

One or two years ago I got a cheap ICE3 basic unit in a really bad shape and repaired it. The motor however was fine (never had problems with it) but of course no match if compared to the Kato standard. To avoid the high prices of additional cars I bought the Fleischmann ICE-T ones which were cheap at that time and made a coupler adaptor for them. (ICE-3 and -T have the same train profile just the doors are ina different position -- modelers license since it anyway runs on the Shinkansen viaduct. :P). BTW, Fleischmann stuff meanwhile has become as expensive as Minitrix.

 

If there is interest, I can take some photos from what I have.

 

It must be nice to see high speed trains every day. All I ever see are gigantic freight trains. Interesting about the 500 and the ICE3 having the same designer. There's quite a resemblance between the two.

 

That's interesting about trains only being sought after in Germany if they're expensive. Why? I first got into Kato because they were better quality than anything else here, even though they are often cheaper? I'm a bit confused about European brands. When I was a kid I had Lima and Hornby OO gauge trains. Hornby was considered nicer than Lima. Fleishmann were considered the fanciest. People seem to be talking here like Fleishmann is the crappy brand. So can you give me a short who's who and what's what of European brands. 

 

Specifically, what's the pecking order among Arnold, Fleishmann, Lemke, and Minitrix. What are some pros and cons? If that's too general a question then let's confine the question to only their ICE models.

 

Yes, I would LOVE to see photos of your ICE collection :)

Edited April 19, 2017 by gavino200

[gavino200]

Based on this video Arnold definitely seem nicer than Minitrix.

 

 

This is Quinntopia's Minitrix excellent review of the Minitrix.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by gavino200

[cteno4]

the main shape of the 500 actually came from JR West engineer Eiji Nakatsu. He was a bird watcher and they modeled the nose on a kingfisher to reduce pressure build up at tunnel entrances by piercing the density differences like a kingfisher bill pierces air/water interface. he was famous for biomimicry design.

 

jeff

[gavino200]

I think this is the Minitrix again.

 

 

Here's a Fleischmann, but I can't tell what scale it is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IClY0RbyXVo

 

Here's an older Minitix with a silver paint scheme.

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by gavino200

[gavino200]

the main shape of the 500 actually came from JR West engineer Eiji Nakatsu. He was a bird watcher and they modeled the nose on a kingfisher to reduce pressure build up at tunnel entrances by piercing the density differences like a kingfisher bill pierces air/water interface. he was famous for biomimicry design.

 

jeff

 

Interesting. I just did an image search for 'Kingfisher'. I've always loved that bird. Now it looks like it has a Japanese train coming out of it's face.

[brill27mcb]

Gavino, I really like my Minitrix ICE 3, even if it has no headlights or taillights. The windows look like they are just black paint, but you can't really see through the real one's windows from the outside, either. I have a complete consist, bought slowly a few years ago, all on ebay. At the time, that was all that was available, and some years after it was produced. I lurked until I could get the 3-car starter set cheaply, and slowly added extra coaches (2 types: first and second class) at about $35 each.

 

More recently, the Arnold and Fleischmann sets came out, but they are hard to figure out and seem to be sold and stay almost totally within Germany. On these, the coaches all look to have the correct differences, unlike the original Minitrix, like doors at 1 end or both, pantograph or not, etc. Because it has so many pantographs, the original Minitrix models best represent the multi-voltage international version of the prototype, which is fine with me. The later Minitrix sets seem to correct this.

 

Be aware that the Minitrix ICE 3 had plastic axle gears that suffered from the classic splitting issue. They click at first, and eventually worsen to where they turn one revolution and then jam. Minitrix later sold replacement axle sets with brass axle gears. I was able to get some of these from Germany, and some from Walthers in the US, of all places. Each of the 4 axle sets technically is different (gear to one side or other, insulated wheel on one side or other, etc.), so there were 4 separate part numbers for the replacements, although I found they were not entirely critical, since there was no lighting and the bogie frame was plastic. So look for or ask about brass gears, visible from the underside.

 

I run it along with a full-length Fleischmann ICE-1, and to me they look fine together.

 

Rich K.

Edited April 19, 2017 by brill27mcb

[gavino200]

Gavino, I really like my Minitrix ICE 3, even if it has no headlights or taillights. The windows look like they are just black paint, but you can't really see through the real one's windows from the outside, either. I have a complete consist, bought slowly a few years ago, all on ebay. At the time, that was all that was available, and some years after it was produced. I lurked until I could get the 3-car starter set cheaply, and slowly added extra coaches (2 types: first and second class) at about $35 each.

 

More recently, the Arnold and Fleischmann sets came out, but they are hard to figure out and seem to be sold and stay almost totally within Germany. On these, the coaches all look to have the correct differences, unlike the original Minitrix, like doors at 1 end or both, pantograph or not, etc. Because it has so many pantographs, the original Minitrix models best represent the multi-voltage international version of the prototype, which is fine with me. The later Minitrix sets seem to correct this.

 

Be aware that the Minitrix ICE 3 had plastic axle gears that suffered from the classic splitting issue. They click at first, and eventually worsen to where they turn one revolution and then jam. Minitrix later sold replacement axle sets with brass axle gears. I was able to get some of these from Germany, and some from Walthers in the US, of all places. Each of the 4 axle sets technically is different (gear to one side or other, insulated wheel on one side or other, etc.), so there were 4 separate part numbers for the replacements, although I found they were not entirely critical, since there was no lighting and the bogie frame was plastic. So look for or ask about brass gears, visible from the underside.

 

I run it along with a full-length Fleischmann ICE-1, and to me they look fine together.

 

Rich K.

 

Thanks Rich. That's great information :)

[gavino200]

Anyone know how I'd go about pre-ordering this? Should I look for a Japanese supplier or a German supplier?

 

http://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/ICE-4-DB-Ep.VI-7tlg.-Grundgarnitur

[cteno4]

Interesting. I just did an image search for 'Kingfisher'. I've always loved that bird. Now it looks like it has a Japanese train coming out of it's face.

Yep you can see the shape totally

 

https://goo.gl/images/hbmnaM

 

Then mix in a little f104 canopy

 

https://goo.gl/images/jp2oOb

 

500 was part of a biomimicry and solutions from biology presentation exhibit I worked on at the Monterey bay aquarium. It was fun to have a Shinkansen be part of the content and Nakatsu San came over to see the show! Others were wave power generators from kelp shapes, wind blade turbulence reduction from humpback whale pects, ship hull surface turbulence reduction from shark skin, and more!

 

Jeff

[Yavianice]

Anyone know how I'd go about pre-ordering this? Should I look for a Japanese supplier or a German supplier?

 

http://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/ICE-4-DB-Ep.VI-7tlg.-Grundgarnitur

Pre-ordering has not started yet. No release date has been announced yet either as far as I know. These sets are sold by KATO, too, but there might be a price difference (and quantity limitations). This is also why you don't see many releases of ICE in N gauge: model trains are not that popular here as in Japan. So quantities are limited in General. Furthermore, most people in Europe use HO gauge, with Märklin being the most popular brand and the most releases. This brand also uses a totally different and incompatible power system for HO gauge. (Note that Minitrix nowadays is also Märklin).

 

Fleischmann has also released ICE trains in N gauge, I think the ICE-3 (not 100% sure), ICE-T, ICE-1 and the AMTRAK ICE-1. These regularly pop up on German eBay, and I see them regularly at trade fairs. I never owned a motorized locomotive in N gauge of Fleischmann, but the HO gauge locomotives are superb, and I'm sure the N gauge versions are too.

 

Talking about trade fairs, I'm not sure when you come to Europe, but check out if there is a model train fair when you are around. There are quite many. It's a great way to search for a secondhand ICE in N gauge, inspecting it, fondling it, and testing it, before purchasing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gavino200]

Yep you can see the shape totally

 

https://goo.gl/images/hbmnaM

 

Then mix in a little f104 canopy

 

https://goo.gl/images/jp2oOb

 

500 was part of a biomimicry and solutions from biology presentation exhibit I worked on at the Monterey bay aquarium. It was fun to have a Shinkansen be part of the content and Nakatsu San came over to see the show! Others were wave power generators from kelp shapes, wind blade turbulence reduction from humpback whale pects, ship hull surface turbulence reduction from shark skin, and more!

 

Jeff

 

Ah, so you must be an engineer. Very cool. 

[gavino200]

Pre-ordering has not started yet. No release date has been announced yet either as far as I know. These sets are sold by KATO, too, but there might be a price difference (and quantity limitations). This is also why you don't see many releases of ICE in N gauge: model trains are not that popular here as in Japan. So quantities are limited in General. Furthermore, most people in Europe use HO gauge, with Märklin being the most popular brand and the most releases. This brand also uses a totally different and incompatible power system for HO gauge. (Note that Minitrix nowadays is also Märklin).

 

Fleischmann has also released ICE trains in N gauge, I think the ICE-3 (not 100% sure), ICE-T, ICE-1 and the AMTRAK ICE-1. These regularly pop up on German eBay, and I see them regularly at trade fairs. I never owned a motorized locomotive in N gauge of Fleischmann, but the HO gauge locomotives are superb, and I'm sure the N gauge versions are too.

 

Talking about trade fairs, I'm not sure when you come to Europe, but check out if there is a model train fair when you are around. There are quite many. It's a great way to search for a secondhand ICE in N gauge, inspecting it, fondling it, and testing it, before purchasing.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for the info. If you hear of pre-orders opening for the Kato/Lemke ICE, would you mind posting here? That way I'll see it.

 

We'll be going to Germany in mid-march of 2018. That's Spring break here, so the boy won't have to miss school. So far the plan is half Berlin and half Munich with some day-trips from each city. Visiting train shows and train museums would be great. We're also looking forward to riding U-bahns, S-bahns, and the ICE. I haven't been in Germany for years. I'm looking forward to hearing the once familiar sound of "Zurückbleiben bitte" again.  :)

[cteno4]

Ah, so you must be an engineer. Very cool.

 

Actually no started out in molecular biology but took a left turn after post doc back into exhibit and multimedia design and production.

 

Jeff

Edited April 19, 2017 by cteno4

[gavino200]

Actually no started out in molecular biology but took a left turn adder post doc back into exhibit and multimedia design and production.

 

Jeff

 

Ah, wise left turn. Multimedia design sounds interesting.

Edited April 19, 2017 by gavino200

[velotrain]

Interesting. I just did an image search for 'Kingfisher'. I've always loved that bird. Now it looks like it has a Japanese train coming out of it's face.

 

It's also an Indian beer with a quite nice label.

 

http://www.benekeith.com/images/gallery/3056/kfpremiumlabel4web062007.jpg

[medusa]

Huh, hot discussion while I was off... just for reference, I give the Wiki entries about the 500 designer (though don't want to start a flaming here...)

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Neumeister (German, much more detailed)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Neumeister (English)

(sorry cannot link the Japanese version via copy-paste)

 

About the Arnold ICE3 set, that's really nice and I would love to have one BUT: it's a special limited edition made by Arnold/Hornby for the German model train shop "Modellbahnunion".Since they're located in the city of Dortmund, it models the ICE3 set named "Dortmund" including all 8 cars and all the stickers it carried in 2011. And that's also about how long it is sold out. You can see a German review with photos here: http://www.1zu160.net/test/modellbahnunion-ice3-arnold-hornby.php

It was sold at original price of 299 €. Very very rare and very desperate sought by some, I have seen them pop up on Ebay for 600 Euros. At that point I was off.

 

Mintrix made the ICE prototype ICE-X (old series 410) and the ICE-1. (series 401, I have only the "X"). The simple Minitrix ICE-3 was marketed as a kind of set to make people/children enter the model train hobby. So it's a cheaper version missing some stuff. (BTW the plastic gear problem is one I forgot to mention since brass gear axles was the first thing I put in for repair). Unfortunately they never upgraded to the "adult" version. It models the ICE 3 second series (406) which is the muti-voltage type. You can easily recognize them from the pantographs on every car (the series 403 has only two panthos)

 

Fleischmann made the ICE-2 (series 402) and the ICE-T (series 415). Don't expect any compatible couplers between Mtx and Flm. The ICE-T model has a tilting mechanism in the cars. ICE-T and ICE-3 look quite similar on the first glance, the T has the pantos on the cab cars (among of lots of other detail). Of the two Flm ICE-T cars I have I can say much better detail than the Mtx set.

AFAIK Flm also made the series 407 Velaro in N for hefty €€€. About at that time I left the German forum since I'm happy with Kato. ;)

 

Will take some photos later today...

[cteno4]

Yes neurmeister did the final design, but shape was set from research by jr west team lead by Nakatsu.

 

Jeff

[railsquid]

Fleischmann has also released ICE trains in N gauge, I think the ICE-3 (not 100% sure), ICE-T, ICE-1 and the AMTRAK ICE-1. These regularly pop up on German eBay, and I see them regularly at trade fairs. I never owned a motorized locomotive in N gauge of Fleischmann, but the HO gauge locomotives are superb, and I'm sure the N gauge versions are too.

 

I picked up a pair of Fleischmann ICE1 power cars very cheaply from UK Ebay a while back, the box was in disgusting shape (probably exposed to cigarette smoke, had to wash it carefully but the cars themselves were fine), very nice smooth runners. The only probably has been trying to get matching coaches in the original Bundesbahn livery (found one a few weeks ago in Akihabara...)

 

I've also got a small collection of older Fleischmann locomotives, very solid and reliable for the most part.

[gavino200]

 

About the Arnold ICE3 set, that's really nice and I would love to have one BUT: it's a special limited edition made by Arnold/Hornby for the German model train shop "Modellbahnunion".Since they're located in the city of Dortmund, it models the ICE3 set named "Dortmund" including all 8 cars and all the stickers it carried in 2011. And that's also about how long it is sold out. You can see a German review with photos here: http://www.1zu160.net/test/modellbahnunion-ice3-arnold-hornby.php

It was sold at original price of 299 €. Very very rare and very desperate sought by some, I have seen them pop up on Ebay for 600 Euros. At that point I was off.

 

 

That's a great looking train. Great details. The only thing I don't like are the painted-on doors. 

 

Those spike couplers look interesting.

[Vato]

I use minitrix ICE3 with one additional car for years and have no problem