Tomytec buildings

[Densha]

Maybe it's better to make it a general topic and me asking a question in it, so that we won't have a single topic for every quick question about Tomytec buildings like mine is.

 

---

 

I recently bought this Tomytec station. For some reason the roof is not really in line with the walls, but that's probably a little error on the production line in the cheap Chinese factories. I managed to get it a bit more in line, but you won't probably not notice it when putting it at a layout.

Anyway, the thing what my question is about is, is the dilemma of the stickers. First, I don't trust them because it feels as if they will come off any moment. Second, I don't know which sticker has to be on what place because my knowledge of kanji doesn't reach that far. I also don't really get which stickers belong at what place, I marked them a bit the clarify my question. I think though that most of the stickers beneath are from modern prototypes. So I dearly ask of you to help me with the deciphering of the Japanese texts on the stickers. If you can't read it click here.

[cteno4]

Densha,

 

the misalignment that usually happens with the tomytec is usually due to the styrene warping a bit. you can over come this usually with a bit to tweaking of the parts by bending them the other way gently with your fingers. careful use of warm air from a hair dryer can also help to get them flat with some gentle bending. also gluing them together also helps get them into tighter alignment.

 

ive had tomytec stickers on buildings now for at least 6 years now and they show no sign or curling up or coming off. the sticker material is a bit plasticised so i think a bit more resililiajt to humidity changes which usually can cause stickers to peal themselves off. stickum seems pretty good, lasted 6 years or more for me so far. you could seal things up with a spritz of dull coat to try and seal down the stickers if you wanted.

 

its always a challenge figuring out what goes where and making sure you dont do something upside down when you dont speak the language! always worried i will put an underwear store title on a station or something! ive gotten good enough to usually know which side is up!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Darklighter]

きっぷうりば (bottom right) means "ticket window".

駅 means "station", so all those signs show possible names for your station.

The signs in the lower half are more modern than those in the upper half.

Of course the station name sign should match the name on the sign for the platform and the name on the timetable.

[Densha]

@cteno4

 

I don't think bending with warm air will work because it's a pretty difficult situation and I don't really get which part is the one that's warped. I think it's the roof that's warped, but it could be because of another part too.

 

I understand, I have experience with paper coming off too, so hopefully this won't do the same.

 

No problem with putting it upside down. I have seen enough Japanese to know which side is up or down. I also know all hiragana, a few katakana and a few kanji, but there are too many kanji to remember. So I'm sure that won't happen.

(I don't think that they would include an underwear store sticker with a station, but you'll never know it with the Japanese. )

 

@Darklighter

Thanks!

There are three tickets window at the inside of the station building. Two of them are high enough for the stickers, but the other one not I think. I'm not sure if I should put those on the window though, because it's now a yellowish wall, and when I put the sticker on it there's still a big part of it that should be glass while it is wall. It's a bit weird.

 

It's still a mystery though where the largest station name sticker and the timetable could be placed and what the most upper red and orange coloured stickers say.

[cteno4]

Dansha,

 

yeah its usually the roof and base that seem to warp the worse, usually with corners bending up. walls probably dont warp as badly because of the reinforcement with window and door and depth stuff. base and roof are ususally thinner w/o much detail to reinforce them.

 

warming a bit helps bend them lightly. you can do hot water to soften styrene some, but i would worry about that with the paint, not sure its not water based on these, but expect not.

 

for the most part they end up going together quite well and unless you are doing street level macro photography you will never see the small gap or curl here or there.

 

ive grabbed interesting looking signs form photos of buildings so you never know what you might be getting for a sign. figure it will be a snicker for anyone that does know some japanese!

 

enjoy!

 

jeff

[Darklighter]

the most upper red and orange coloured stickers

Those seem to be advertisements for soy sauce ("しょうゆ"). Maybe one of those stickers belongs on the backrest of the bench...

[cteno4]

the most upper red and orange coloured stickers

Those seem to be advertisements for soy sauce ("しょうゆ"). Maybe one of those stickers belongs on the backrest of the bench...

 

those are the ones not to put on the main station signs above the doors! ;-p

 

jeff

[Densha]

@cteno4

Hmm... maybe I'll take another look at it tomorrow to see what exactly is the cause. I don't know about using water, I'm not sure about the paint either.

 

I think I get it about those advertisements: the katakana is the brand and the hiragana means soy sauce. The red one is from a different brand than the orange one. I shouldn't put them above the entrance of the station indeed. The bench is possible in measurements, and after a little search on flickr I found a Japanese bench with advertisements, so bench advertising is done in Japan.

 

There are actually some weird panels hanging from the roof of the platforms that look like a place for putting a sign for the name of station on, but no sticker fits.

[cteno4]

There are actually some weird panels hanging from the roof of the platforms that look like a place for putting a sign for the name of station on, but no sticker fits.

 

yeah there are alway some stickers that dont seem to fit anything in that model and at times some things on the model that look like they should have a sticker but nothing exactly fitting it.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[keiman]

You can put them in hot water to straighten them out. Found best to do a test assembly first and then sort the panels before adding any of the detail parts.

The paint on the ones I have done was not affected.

The panels I found worst were the bases, and what I did was borrow one of the boss's(or read wife) baking trays.

Fill with hot water to just a bit more than the height of the base.

Put base in water for 30 seconds max!

Remove from water and straighten out if no raised mouldings on them-have found placing a heavy pan(or similar) on top whilst they cool down helps.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

[cteno4]

Keiman,

 

hey thanks mucho for the report that the paints are safe in hot water! hot water would help as like you say some of the bases can really go wonko and bending by hand is not all that exact or perfect! ill be trying it on the next warped part.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Densha]

Today I thought of putting together the platforms of my station, but it didn't went as it should have.

First I had to struggle with parts not fitting and after cutting some stuff that was too long and such it finally fit. After that finally succeeded I decided the glue some parts that were very loose together. But that went completely wrong. My old Faller glue was probably too old and it worked the same as putting no glue on it, so I had to clean all the glue up. After searching for another modelling glue I found a bottle with 'UHU plast kunststoff modellbau'. Because of the failing faller glue I decided to first try it on a part of the mold, and I'm glad I did because a few minutes later all the paint came off the mold parts.

So the question is: what glue to use with Tomytec buildings, since the glues I have at home don't seem to work? I do live in the Netherlands, so it has to be available there.

[cteno4]

Densha,

 

sorry to hear you had issues. i rarely have any big issues that a little bending and glue dont fix iwth the tomytec. they are meant to be a tight pressure fit to work w/o gluing if you want so you do have to apply a bit of pressure to get them snug, they are not the sort of loose joints you usually have in plastic models that are only there to align the part, not actually hold it together w/o glue.

 

i use plain old super glue (cyanoacrylate/ACC) for these. i usually use the thicker stuff for these as the thin stuff can run out the seams very easily and end up on the paint on the outside where it will change the finish to sort of a gloss coat and potentially cement your finger to a wall while you hold it! i usually use the cheap stuff from the dollar store where you get three small tubes for a buck. basically the same stuff as the more expensive brands. i have found my favorite to be the brush on version that comes with a little brush in the bottle (only one for a dollar here but you get much more). this stuff seems to dry much faster than the thicker gels stuff in the tubes and the brush is a great applicator for this sort of stuff actually. otherwise i will also use tooth picks to apply the glue in the tinier areas. regular styrene model glues will work, but they take more time to dry usually and can be a bit messier. i would not use solvent glues on them (the very dilute brush on kind) as they would run right through the cracks and out onto the paint on the outside.

 

the gel super glue usually dries faster than the really liquid stuff and can be a bit too thick with some of them i have gotten so i have just mixed the two to get the consistency i want with a tooth pick on a bit of wax paper.

 

most glues including the super glue can weaken the paint while on there wet, so i am careful to only put the glue in the places i want to do the bond. for the little detail parts i just put a tiny drop on the part and place it carefully so no glue is visible.

 

i assemble the walls into the base then first just add a dab of glue to the interior tab joints. if a wall corner does not stay straight i will dab a bit in the corner and hold it closed in the right position. i use those cheap blue plastic xacto clamps for this if i can. then i put on the roof with a small drop on each of the roof tabs. if any corner is still a bit curled up due to warping (i prefit and try to bend if i can to get it as good as possible) i then go back under the roof with a tooth pick and some glue to tack down things in the corner and hold it tight till the glue sets (again clamps help). then i do the base by again pushing it on as flat as it will go then just apply a tiny amount of the thicker super glue to each of the tab joints in the underside of the base. if any corner is a bit warped i again clamp and if necessary put a tiny bit in the open seam at the base of the wall/base joint with a toothpick and clamp tight.

 

one last trick if you are trying to get a bit of the more liquid super glue into a tight place like a seam (where the thicker stuff just wont go into) you can get a bit more glue on the toothpick by using a sharp hobby knife to split the end of the toothpick about 2-3mm. this makes a little tight Y that will suck up more glue to place into a seam. careful as when it touches the bit in the Y will wick off quickly usually.

 

hope this helps.

 

jeff

[keiman]

I only keep 4 types of glue in the house.

Superglue for Brass where I don't want to solder, white PVA, 2 part Epoxy(for whitemetal kits) and Humbrol Liquid poly for all the plastic stuff.

 

KeiTown Mk1 was  built using only Humbrol Poly and white PVA.

[bill937ca]

I only keep 4 types of glue in the house.

Superglue for Brass where I don't want to solder, white PVA, 2 part Epoxy(for whitemetal kits) and Humbrol Liquid poly for all the plastic stuff.

 

KeiTown Mk1 was  built using only Humbrol Poly and white PVA.

 

I use Humbrol Liquid Poly too.  MY LHS said there are people that stopped buying models when Humbrol Liquid Poly was off the market a few years ago.

[Densha]

Does the humbrol glue take a long time to dry up and is there no problem with the paint? If it would, then I maybe should use super glue indeed.

[cteno4]

the Humbrol Liquid Poly is a basic plastic solvent based glue so yes it can affect the paint. i would use the tube kind of humbrol thats more of a gel than the liquid stuff on a painted model like this. you can apply the glue on the inside of joints and if you place i sparingly it wont come out into the painted areas.

 

the liquid stuff is low viscosity and and is designed to wick all the way into joints and thus is why its great stuff to make a super strong bond when you are doing kits you are going to paint afterwards (like green max kits), but it does wick so if too much is applied it can come out into the outside of a seam some and if its painted it may start dissolving the paint there or leave a different finish where it dries. you can control this if you use it sparingly, but its not as controllable as the tube kind of humbrol cement.

 

super glue usually does not dissolve the paint as it usually dries before that happens, but it can if you mush your finger in it when its still wet (and then everything is stuck to everything!). what it does do when it dries on the paint is its like you just put some gloss clear varnish on the paint and it looks a bit shinier than the usual flat tomytec finish. but again if you use the thicker superglues or model cements and try to keep gluing from the inside of joints you should not have an issue of the glue getting out onto the paints.

 

i just like the super glue as it dries faster and the tomytecs only need some spot welds here and there since their tabs and interlocking design are meant to hold it together even w/o glue.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Densha]

The UHU glue I had used on a part of the mold and affected the paint is also a liquid glue, just like the Humbrol Liquid Poly. I assume that it's almost the same stuff.

 

The problem with the Tomytec platforms is that the roof and the wall and other parts won't stay in their position without applying glue, so I have to hold it strongly while the glue is drying up and the glue has to be pretty strong. Is the tube kind of humbrol still recommended in that case?

[cteno4]

Densha,

 

yes the tube humbrol should do fine as its the same solvent based stuff that will fuse the plastic at the application point. only difference is its in a gel form and more controllable on where it goes, but does not wick into every little part of a joint like the liquid stuff will to give you an even larger bonding area. will take a while to set up in which you will need to hold it in place. rubber bands, clamps etc help in this. i use those cheap plastic bar clamps xacto makes for this sort of stuff.

 

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/clamp/BER34

 

i also have a few of the mini ratchet kind you can find on sale for a couple of bucks for the stuff that needs more umph

 

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/ht/SDB3-FC

 

but with things other than your fingers you will have to make sure its all lined up and stays that way while drying. also over pressure can warp parts and mush joints with too much glue as the joint ends up dissolving some and mushing under too much pressure. its a gentle balance. this is one of the reasons i use super glue as it does not dissolve styrene (under normal applications) and it sets up fast so not as long clamping needed. other things that i want to be careful with the set up alignment on looser parts or ones that have multiple attachment points i like to use plastic model glues like humbrol as i can monitor the setting so that everything is just right as when the super glue starts to set up its pretty much goes from loose to set in second at some point and no fiddling after that point! the plastic model cements tend to be stickier than even the gel super glues so they also tend to hold small or looser fitting parts in position better while setting up.

 

its mainly just practice and experience on this stuff on putting models together like this. experiment some with the plastic sprues with the various glues you can get your hands on and it will give you a better feel for how they bond, how fast, and the various strengths of each.

 

jeff

[Densha]

I think I'll try to buy the tube humbrol this week, so I can try it. I noticed that there are multiple strength levels available, is there any you would recommend or should I just go with the medium one?

 

I can't find that second clamp on a Dutch webshop, I can find the first however. Ordering from the US costs too much. Thanks for the tip anyway!

 

If I had some ugly old building kits somewhere it would come in handy to experiment a bit, but unfortunately I don't have any of it.

[cteno4]

mhh have to have one of the brits or canadians answer the strength question, we dont get humbrol much here in the states and ive only ever had a tube or two of it my whole life. here its mainly testors and tamiya for model glues like this.

 

the second ones are actually usually for wood working, but you can find the little ones at times in hobby shops or other smaller tool sites. called bar or ratchet clamps, but may be overkill for what you need. those little cheap plastic clamps are great. also helps to put a piece of rough surfaced tape on the jaws to help them from sliding off corners. you only probably ever need the little ones (about 15cm long) for the tomytec or other small structures.

 

some on ebay not that cheap though at around $4 each shipped

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100mm-Quick-Ratchet-Clamp-Spreader-PACK-2-TE305-/140624276188?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item20bddc2adc#ht_596wt_808

 

also i tend to try to do 1 or 2 wall corners at a time as if you try to do all 4 at once you find when you get one tight it can pop another one! same goes for the roof corners. after cementing down the center peak tabs then i will do the corners one or two at a time if they are warped up a tad. same goes with the bases. i will do 2 or 3 kits at a time and just go around in a circle working on another while one is drying, just have to keep the parts separate! i do that using those little party trays you can get at the dollar store that are like 15cm x 25cm. just big enough to hold all the parts and the part you are glueing.

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[Densha]

A bit late, but two weeks or so ago I finally got to gluing a first platform. Apart from that I do need those clamps after all, I noticed the humbrol tube glue is more solvent than I expected. It is a little bit less solvent than the other stuff I've had, but it's not a big change. And because of that it still does drip down a bit, so now there's a tiny bit of shiny on some places which I definitely hate. If possible I want a better result, but I don't know how.

[inobu]

Quality builds are based on the build preparation and planning.

 

Prep

It starts with fitment. Everything has to fit squarely which means that you need to sand and shave edges lightly just to remove flashing. As you prepare these pieces you will/can familiarize yourself with the build.  

Plan

You need to layout the order in which you are going to build each component, then the order in which each component will be attached to complete model.

 

Component build

The component build has its plan and process of its own. This is where you can avoid the drips and glue blemishes. I have small ABS blocks that are squared and different lengths and heights. I use these to hold the pieces together during the gluing process. Being that I cannot hold the pieces steady and square I let the blocks do it. Taping each piece to the block applying the solvent to the edge and sliding the blocks together for the weld. Sometimes I tape the ruler "liner" to table and slide the blocks against it for perfect alignment.

 

Also I plan out which way the glue is going to drip insuring that the drip is away from the visual side. Use gravity to help you control the direction that the drip is going to run.

 

Glue

 

Solvent glues that melt the plastic is the best as they fuse or welds the pieces. Although the CA (super glues) are quick they do not fuse the material. Welding is the best way.

 

I use the small brush as I paint the solvent on. Thin but complete coverage. If you place too much solvent it will melt and deform the area warping the joint.

 

As Jeff pointed out the wicking can be an issue this is why I say use gravity to control the flow direction.

 

Pre Painted or Not

 

Some parts must be painted before the assembly based on the painting method. There is no way to paint a N Scale railing with a brush as the brush applies too much paint that coats the rail increasing its diameter. So you need to air brush it and then glue it.

 

With this process you need to plan as well. The painted area verses the gluing area insuring that they do not bleed over onto each other.

   

For quality builds it takes a lot of planning.

 

Inobu    

 

Here is a example of the rail pre-painted in order to get the part separation a  ..Its hard but I'm getting better as I learn.

 

[smg id=1428]

 

[smg id=1429]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Densha]

That helps a bit.

Of course I prepared a bit for fitting, but there's not much to do about that. I put the glue on the side of the wall and on little tips where it has to be glued, but because of that I didn't have something to hold it still for a whole night, or even an hour, it got loose. I think that if I get those clamps and use the brush method you recommended, it will go lots better. I have a completely pre-painted model, so I don't have to paint it.

[Densha]

I'm still haven't got the tools for doing better work with putting my Tomytec kit together, and that led me to think about what kind of plastic the kits are actually made of so I know what I'm doing. Anyone who knows this?