Where should BT Trains advertise?

[rpierce000]

We advertise via the search engines and the banner engines, so online is pretty covered.

 

N scale magazine is going very well for us.

 

Where do we go from here? I know there is another magazine that is purely N, there is Model Railroader, but where else?

 

Ideas, suggestions and guffaws are all appreciated!

 

Bob

[bill937ca]

Banner on JNS?

 

There is Continental Modeler which sometimes does articles on Japanese layouts.

[bikkuri bahn]

Advertise in Model Trains International (caveat: dunno if they accept advertising, as I've never seen a hard copy). Reading their website, it appears to be small circulation, but I like their philosophy, and likely the readers are more open minded to different prototypes and trying new stuff:

 

http://www.modeltrainsinternational.co.uk/

[Tecchan]

You already do Google AdWords right?!

 

You should build yourself a Facebook page and advertise on Facebook too.

Facebook allows a really good way to target people by their interests, their age and gender or even their interests. This gives you probably one of the best cost per click.

[KenS]

I'll second Continental Modeler.  They're carried in a couple of local Barnes & Nobles, and when I picked my copy up the day it came out, the cashier told me that I was the second one she'd sold that afternoon. There's clearly a North American audience with an interest in other kinds of trains. It also used to be carried by Borders before they went belly up.  They cover more than just "continental" models, with recent issues having articles on a North American layout and of course Yamanouchi Oshika.

 

But the best way to advertise, if you can afford it, is to go to some of the larger train shows and set up a dealers table.  And don't just take a stack of boxes, but set up a loop of nice-looking Finetrack (or make a portable tram layout using it) and SHOW people what Tomix and other Japanese manufactuers have to offer. A few modern-looking Modemo trams and Tomix Portrams on a not-too-Japanese modern city "light rail" layout would probably resonate with a lot of younger modelers and would-be modelers.  That way you can make impulse sales on the spot, and also hand out flyers showing what else they can get through your website.

 

Just don't take any cool but out-of-production models with you.  There's nothing worse than "oh I want that but can't get it". 

[clem24]

Yeah it's true.. One of my LHS'es (Hobbytech.ca) has been selling a ton of Unitrack and Shinkansen models just through shows. I guess just bringing them there seems to get quite a bit of attention. Plus the fact that it's not wildly expensive like European stuff seems to help quite a bit.

[rpierce000]

Wow Clem, we went to a show and sold NOTHING!  Bupkus!  Nada!  Three days of hell, three tables, a four track running layout, 30 trains to choose from, prices from $10 to $400 depending on what you wanted to spend. Credit card processing in place, etc and NOTHING.  Lots of kids watched the Shinkansens, but NONE sold. I had Shinkansens, Odorikos, Romance trains, all beautiful and sleek stuff, as well as an M250 freight and some other freight. I wonder what we did wrong?

 

Continental modeler is an option I had not considered. I will get their rate sheet. Thank you for that information.

[bikkuri bahn]

Wow Clem, we went to a show and sold NOTHING!  Bupkus!  Nada!  Three days of hell, three tables, a four track running layout, 30 trains to choose from, prices from $10 to $400 depending on what you wanted to spend. Credit card processing in place, etc and NOTHING.  Lots of kids watched the Shinkansens, but NONE sold. I had Shinkansens, Odorikos, Romance trains, all beautiful and sleek stuff, as well as an M250 freight and some other freight. I wonder what we did wrong?

 

I believe you are based out of the Seattle area- that could be a factor if the convention you exhibited was in the West.  From what I hear, and based on experience (I'm from California), the model railroad community (and the railfan community) in the western US is very conservative, and to them railroads= UP, BNSF, and for geezers, Espee and Santa Fe (with the occasional WP and Milwaukee Rd fan). Just check out the chatter on west coast based railfan forums- alot of anti-HSR sentiment, minimal interest in stuff beyond their backyards.   I believe the Eastern US is more fertile ground for customers, as people there actually are exposed to more passenger rail and transit, and the "thundering diesels through mountain passes are real trains" thinking is not as entrenched.  Occasional forumer Dick H, who I believe is from the Portland area, and is an old-time Japan railways hand, has often commented on this reality in the past, in other forums. Anyway, just my humble opinion.

 

To add: I don't know how many North American fans of Japanese railways were originally fans of American railroads (would make for an interesting study or poll), but I surmise relatively few.  Possibly a better potential customer demographic would be the anime/manga world- model railways are very much a part of otaku culture, obviously.  Advertising in English language anime/manga websites or magazines?

[clem24]

Hmm I dunno, must be the US economy? I've been chatting with Johny from Hobby Tech about once or twice a week and he's done a few shows and he says he's moving quite a bit of Unitrack, even the structures and quite a bit of Shinkansen.

[nik_n_dad]

The big LHS here (Colorado) had someone drop off a small crate of Japanese trains for consignment.  Although the price was pretty much the same as online/new, it all sold very, very quickly. I was pretty surprised.

[cteno4]

To add: I don't know how many North American fans of Japanese railways were originally fans of American railroads (would make for an interesting study or poll), but I surmise relatively few.  Possibly a better potential customer demographic would be the anime/manga world- model railways are very much a part of otaku culture, obviously.  Advertising in English language anime/manga websites or magazines?

 

Hmm, we have had about 18 members in JRM over the years and I think all of them have come to Japanese trains after doing us or European trains first. This may change with younger generations as japanese model trains are a lot easier to get now with the web and younger folks tend to start there first.

 

Not sure on the east vs west debate spent my first 40 years in california and the last 10 in the east and never noticed a lot of difference in the general model rr attitudes. There are a lot of folks back here just as dedicated to b n o, penn,etc and thats their whole world. Folks out west are also much more exposed to Japanese culture in my experience.

 

Japanese models don't sell really well at the train shows here when members sell stuff and the few that pop up on dealers tables. We have a small number of folks asking if we sell Japanese or where to get them, but it's not huge.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[bikkuri bahn]

This may change with younger generations as japanese model trains are a lot easier to get now with the web and younger folks tend to start there first.

 

Not sure on the east vs west debate spent my first 40 years in california and the last 10 in the east and never noticed a lot of difference in the general model rr attitudes. There are a lot of folks back here just as dedicated to b n o, penn,etc and thats their whole world. Folks out west are also much more exposed to Japanese culture in my experience.

 

Agree with the youth angle- fact is, this where the hobby as a whole needs to go- model railroading as a market is shrinking due to aging- you have to go after new markets beyond the demographic that hangs out at the hobby shop- that means anime conventions, the techie/netgenner crowd, and so forth.

 

As for East/West, my assumptions are pure conjecture admittedly, but there's no denying the market population wise is bigger out East, and the environment which breeds interest in railroad operations beyond mile long freights is there.  A railfan who grew up near Cajon Pass will likely never consider Japanese trains as real, while someone back east (or even in Chicagoland) who may have had daily contact with the NEC, myriad city transit systems, the South Shore, and the like will be more openminded to stuff which is not hauled behind a hulking diesel.  Also, the East Coast is closer to Europe, which would indicate more fans of European railways, which, as mentioned, is a path to developing interest in Japanese trains (European and British trains and operations share more in common with Japanese trains than with North American ones).

 

Re. exposure to Japanese culture on the West coast, that is likely true for the general population, but I doubt it has any bearing on the relatively tiny percentage of railroad modelers- who are frankly, old male WASPs, who would rather have a cheeseburger and fries for lunch at the model railroad convention than a California Roll plate. But hey, I don't blame them- In-n-Out is great, and if I want sushi, I eat it here in Hokkaido, which has the best sushi in Japan

[Guest Closed Account 1]

How about advertising at model train museums and model train clubhouses open to the public?

 

I am a member at both and have started asking businesses to advertise on our layouts.

 

Business cards get thrown away. Pens go further. Buildings are glued down.

 

BLMA models #520 Modern Dual Sided Billboard makes a great statement.

 

Billboards stand out.

 

I'll like a BT Trains billboard.

[KenS]

The East/West mindset may be true, although I suspect it's an "established modeler" / "new modeler" distinction as well.  Someone who's invested years in a specific prototype isn't likely to be lured away by anything that doesn't fit, and the "mainstream" U.S. modelers seems to be fixated on exact replication of prototypes (something that's always put me off the "club" side of the hobby) which means a Shinkansen on their mainline would be a big no-no. That said, I think I saw a shinkansen on a modular layout at a show once. I'm from the Northeast, and the shows here tend to be dominated by older trains (and older modelers), but I have seen layout modules that are "contemporary", with cell towers, transit terminals (bus/train stations), commuter rail, etc.

 

For something closer to home than the East Coast, consider the SF Bay Area.  A younger urban population with exposure to commuter rail, SF cable cars and the Santa Clara light rail system may be more receptive to modern outline equipment.  I'd actually expect Seattle/Vancouver to be the same way, so your experience is a bit puzzling, unless it was a more rural show. But again, I think that means stuff that looks like you could find it in a U.S. city (maybe an E3 would fit, or some of the other pre-duckbill Shinkansen, but modern Shinkansen are a bit odd-looking and might be a bit too outlandish).

 

My LHS does a brisk business in Unitrack including the concrete-tie stuff (mostly for NA-prototype modelers, it must be said), stocks most of the Kato tower buildings, and sells the Unitrams as fast as they get them, but hasn't gotten into Japanese trains at all.  They see the appeal as "modern" trains, not Japanese ones. Another LHS (also a Unitrack dealer) has had a Tomix 700 (I think) on the shelf for two years just gathering dust. They sell a few Modemo trams, mostly ones that look like historic U.S. models (i.e., 1920's "trolley" cars).

[rpierce000]

We have considered doing a BT Trains container, much like your idea, Webskipper. Would you put a BT Trains container on your layout? Would it have to be a Japanese size or would you live with the international "standard" 40' size?

[cteno4]

bob,

 

i think if you want to get the japanese modelers a 12 or 20' would be best. something colorful would really get folks to look at it vs too blatant of an "ad" perhaps. something fun and japanese might grab eyeballs best. might think of some sort of series with different characters and colors that could be built up over time. be creative with it and folks might ask "where did you get those" or "whats up with that?". also more likely for folks to want to display on their layouts rather than a container that just says bttrains.com on it...

 

40'ers would work, but would then probably be more likely on a truck than a train.

 

bummer tomix has not done a new production run of the blank 12' and 20' containers they use to do, they were less than a dollar each. next step up really is to get the cheapest $2 painted containers and strip them or move up to the more expensive blanks. wish tomix would rerun them!!! i did just get a bunch of the prohobby tank containers on close out for like $2 ea to do some more jrm containers, should be unique.

 

decaling up our JRM containers was pretty easy and quick. we just did inkjet decals. only issue is doing white on the decals requires doing a white container or painting spot white where you would want white under a decal.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

We have considered doing a BT Trains container, much like your idea, Webskipper. Would you put a BT Trains container on your layout? Would it have to be a Japanese size or would you live with the international "standard" 40' size?

 

Standards will still be a great idea.  Even when I get my 53' MAX-VI's they'll still look good because I see standards on top of 53' containers every day along i10.

 

Containers can sit on semi's, too. Kato containers fit rolling stock and their semi trailers.

[KenS]

We have considered doing a BT Trains container, much like your idea, Webskipper. Would you put a BT Trains container on your layout? Would it have to be a Japanese size or would you live with the international "standard" 40' size?

 

I'd suggest an ISO 20' container.  Not unrealistic for a Japanese freight (depending on location) and more likely to find a home on a U.S.-outline layout. But Japanese or ISO, I'd buy one if the price was in line with other containers (meaning Tomix, at $3-$6 per 12' container in a set of 2-3, not Hogarakadou at $10+/container). Not that it would help you advertise, since my layout doesn't get out in public. But I can always use something different in my mix of containers.

 

For comparision, Kato USAs 40' containers list for $7.50 per container in sets of two, and typical N-scale prices run around $5 - $7 per container and I can find 40' containers around $3.75 ea.

 

But I like webskipper's idea of advertising on a show layout. Consider a "business card" that fits in one of the BLMA billboards and looks like a billboard (maybe with a shinkansen, if you can do that without getting in copyright trouble with the JRs).  Throw them in for free when people order things; hand them out at shows.  Put a PDF online so people can download and print their own.  If nothing else, someone may put it on their layout where their friends can see it. Cheap advertising.  I don't know what you'd have to offer someone to get them to display it at a show, though. Maybe a club discount (we sponser you, you advertise us)?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Use your own logo.

 

It's such a small space you gotta make it count.

 

National symbols are frowned upon for use in advertising in most countries.

[Hobby Dreamer]

Hi Rob,

 

Regarding advertising:

Do you visit other N or HO scale forums? I don't know what you sell or plan to but Japanese stuff has exceptional quality, and amazing prices for many things such as vehicles, structures, the whole tram genre etc..  Except for here, how many people would know about Tomytec vehicles, for example?

 

Do you sell Kato US stuff? Do you carry any Japanese US HO?

 

It might be useful to troll around other forums and make people aware of your products and business; but most in the US don't have a Japanese focus so point out the generic products like refineries, vehicles etc..

 

All you need to do is have a forum member snap a photo of something and mention they got it from you - that's the best advertising!

 

 

Regarding your train show experience:

If the hobby show you went to was basically HO/Lionel, freight emphasis and flex track; you'd have a tough sell. You brought stuff guys here would buy. Did you bring Tomix trams with motor and track loop? That is unique and you have a monopoly on Tomix, it seems.

 

Did you bring the Kato US branded items ? You can bring in some Life-Like, or equivalent product and place it next to a Kato one and that speaks for itself.

 

I think that the Kato tram products are the very best model train system out of the box, but it may seem steep at a show where everyone is looking for deals. But if you displayed single track Tomix (no one will like the look of the double track) you'd pique interest. You could offer "deals" on packages for the Tomix stuff.  Maybe, buy 3 tram shells and get the 4th free. If that works out to zero profit - but no loss, that's OK because, first, they dealt with you and you will have word of mouth advertising; second, they will want a power unit at some time.. and they will turn to you, now or later!

 

Bring vehicles that are not too Japanese. No one there wants a Japanese ambulance etc. You can buy the vehicle sets and part out the vehicles. A Japanese collector will want the Japanese stuff, so you'll have no problems selling and parting.

 

And if you plan to do another show, make it around Christmas!!!

 

 

Regarding a container:

As has been said, don't make it look uncool like a sleazy business card. These are something that would sell if you sold them at near cost. You want to make people aware of your shop, then this has potential if done right. If you sell them at a good profit, then no one will want them when they could get a "Nissan" container etc.. at the same price.

 

If someone spends a lot at your shop then always throw one in for free.. They will appreciate that. I don't know what it would cost to produce these but my LHS made a freight car with their logo and they did not sell. Lets see... They were a crappy yellow colour, inferior manufacturing and priced the same as a good Kato car..

 

If they cost you $3 to make then maybe sell them near that at train shows. People love containers so if they can get them from you at the very best price they will likely order other product.

 

Treat these as an advertising tool and not a profit item...

 

Cheers

[Krackel Hopper]

Treat these as an advertising tool and not a profit item...

 

I would agree 100% there.  I would gladly run a BT Trains container if one were tossed in with an order or something, but I sure wouldn't spend $10 on a 3pk when I could be running something more prototypical for that price.

 

The JRM (Japan Rail Modelers) container I have has generated quite a bit of interest at my local hobby shop.  Maybe because it's one of the only containers I have with English writing (haha) and the people are interested/surprised to know there is an entire group in the US dedicated to Japanese N..

[Krackel Hopper]

I would also reinforce what many others have said about going to train shows.

 

Japanese products - but not really Japanese layout.

 

Setting up a Unitram or Wide Tram would be great, but how about running a Bachmann trolley beside a Portram?

 

Kato/Tomix/Tomytec/Greenmax modern style buildings, but with English decals..

 

Tomytec cars, trucks & construction equipment

[bill937ca]

Model Railroad News has done reviews of Japanese train sets before.  It seems Lee Durham of Mokei Imports sent MRN catalogs (mentioned by Bill Cawthon in a May 2011 editorial) and perhaps models for review. Feature reviews in Model Railroad News run 6-10 columns with several photos over several pages whereas MR reviews would probably only be a few paragraphs with or without a photo.