Kato switches

[Densha]

Hi,

 

I just can't find it anywhere on the internet or this forums, so I'll just ask it. I see several track pieces in the package of the Kato switches, but I just can't find anywhere what track pieces it are. Also, I've read somewhere that a curved track was also included, is that true? And what about the switch with a bigger radius, does that one have track pieces included (maybe hidden under the switch itself) ?

[brill27mcb]

This diagram from the Kato package should help you:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10003058k/50/1

 

The 2-track end of the switch is so narrow that the roadbed edges of the side-by-side connected tracks would interfere with each other, so you must use one or the other of the short straights with the tapered roadbed edges, depending on your needs. (The included Unijoiners are also specially narrowed for this same reason.) These special tapered straights are 60mm long, so adding one to the odd 126mm length of the switch yields 186mm, a standard Kato track length. The S64 straight is another odd piece. The standard short straight is 62mm, and this 64mm version projects a length of 62mm when at a 15-degree angle (64 x cos(15) = 62), helping to make parallel tracks align better. The R481-15 curve that is also included matches in size the curved route of the switch and is included so a siding can be made parallel to the track from which the switch diverges.

 

The larger 718mm radius Kato switch does not include any such accessory pieces, and it cannot provide Kato's standard 33mm track spacing between parallel tracks. It's a quirky situation.

 

For more info, see this:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/track/TomixTrackSystems.htm

 

Rich K.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Any word on the new Kato concrete switches?

 

I'm ready to start glueing tracks on my 36x144 inch Ntrak scene and don't want to mix old Unitrack with new. 24 packs of 20-875 going to clash with everything else.

[KenS]

I don't believe any have been announced, have they?

 

While I'd like some too, I think for the forseeable future, we're going to be using wooden-tie switches if we're using Unitrack.

 

Kato hasn't done any curved single-track with concrete ties yet either.  And they only introduced straight single-track six months ago with the V15.  They don't seem to be in a hurry to fill in the gaps in their range.

 

But who knows, with Kato it's anyone's guess what's coming out next month.

[Densha]

@brill27mcb

Thanks for the explanation. I knew the 60mm tracks were needed for switches, but I didn't know that the 60mm tracks were narrowed.

I can't really see in the picture what numbers are written, I do see the curved track, a 64mm straight, 60 straight and the left one that I can't read well (it says 60 or 62). I don't understand why there are two narrowed straight tracks included, it's not needed to put a track diagonal if you want to connect the curved track to switch without extra space, is it? And can that 64mm track be used for other things around a switch than a diagonal track, or is it only made for that purpose only?

Could you give an example of a switch with it's connected tracks? Because I don't really get a certain part of the story like I've written above.

[inobu]

Here you go.

 

http://www.kato-unitrack.de/kato/en/gleisgeometrie/Geometrie_der_Weichen.php

 

 

Inobu

[Densha]

Thanks!

 

But I'm still getting more confused by what track parts are exactly included since this link that brill27mcb provided says that there are two narrowed parts (can't read the length of the left one) of 60mm are included, 2×64mm normal straight, and 1 curved are included. Why would they include two narrowed parts even though it's not needed, that's at least the impression I get from looking at the geometry page inobu posted? And are there really two 64mm included or not?

I would be happy if someone could give me an direct answer instead of making at a puzzle. (Not to insult anyone, I could be misreading something too.)

[inobu]

S60 allows the turnout track to connect into the switch portion due to the reduce radii. It is because of the ballast and tie section. You have to study the image

as you will see why S60 is needed. A regular 62 or 64 mm track would over lap the main track piece and would not snap in place.

 

It allows for one to achieve the different track centers 33mm 49.6 and 66mm. The addition of the s60 allows the other track to butt up against the switch out.

 

This is what you get with #4. which is a Left or Right depicted in 3. and 4.

 

 

 

[Densha]

 

It allows for one to achieve the different track centers 33mm 49.6 and 66mm. The addition of the s60 allows the other track to butt up against the switch out.

 

This is what you get with #4. which is a Left or Right depicted in 3. and 4.

I did already get the first paragraph about the ballast fitting or not at my last post, but I don't get these two quoted paragraphs. Is it me asking unclear questions and do others interpret it different that I do or something like that?

 

So, again, as a confirmation. These tracks are included in the package of a 481 radius switch, right?:

• the switch itself
  
• a 481 radius curved track
  
• 2 × 60mm narrowed straight
  
• 2 × 64mm straight
  

 

And again, why oh why are there two 60mm tracks and two 64mm tracks included when you will use on on of them per switch, especially the 60mm one?

[inobu]

Hopefully this will give you the answer you need to hear.

 

There is one S60L and one S60R.

 

The S60L will be used on the turnout side (Upper section) when there is a straight piece used on the main line (lower section)

 

The S60R will be used on the straight side (Lower section) when there is a straight piece or radii piece connected to the turnout (upper section).

 

It gives you alternatives for the straight pieces on the upper or lower side of the switch. 

[brill27mcb]

I can't find the best explanatory diagram online right now, but look at this:

 

http://www.katousa.com/track-plans/n-plans.html

 

Go near the bottom of this list and click on "#4 Turnout Geometry & Spacing (PDF)." Study that diagram sheet, and you will see that sometimes you need the S60L (left) tapered roadbed straight, and other times you need the S60R (right) mirror-image, to best suit your desired track plan. The folks at Kato are nice enough to provide both, plus other useful companion pieces, when you buy the 481mm switch.

 

Examples: When constructing a yard ladder of multiple switches, you use an S60 (L or R, depending on your yard) on each of the yard straight tracks, where they come off the curved route of the switches. That lets you keep the ladder of switches compact and keep the yard track spacing at 33mm. On occasions where your switch is part of a sweeping curve (or where you have two identical switches joined on the diverging route), and you want a smooth curve uninterrupted by a straight piece, you put the appropriate S60 on the straight route of the switch instead of the curved route. So there are times when the S60L or the S60R works better for the given situation. You must use one S60 tapered piece or the other with the 481mm switch -- that's a given.

 

Keep staring at the diagrams, and hopefully it will start to make sense.

 

Rich K.

[brill27mcb]

Here's a version of what I was looking for:

 

http://www.katouk.com/index.asp?function=PRODUCTIMAGEWINDOW&closedelay=20000&SRC=http://www.katouk.com/ekmps/shops/katouk/images/kato-unitrack-20-221-4-right-turnout-with-481mm-19-radius-curve-%5B2%5D-25-p%5Bekm%5D180x80%5Bekm%5D.gif

 

Study it carefully until you reach the next level of enlightenment...    

 

Rich K.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Look for the track pieces next to the switches with their corners cut off.

 

http://www.katomodels.com/hobby/customshop/kakou/cs_top_point.shtml

[Guest Closed Account 1]

I don't believe any have been announced, have they?

 

While I'd like some too, I think for the forseeable future, we're going to be using wooden-tie switches if we're using Unitrack.

 

No announcement yet. Maybe at Christmas.

 

I'm swimming in the wooden tie Unitrack so I'll just go ahead with securing the track. Can always undo the white glue and replace with new concrete sleepers.

[Densha]

Here's a version of what I was looking for:

 

http://www.katouk.com/index.asp?function=PRODUCTIMAGEWINDOW&closedelay=20000&SRC=http://www.katouk.com/ekmps/shops/katouk/images/kato-unitrack-20-221-4-right-turnout-with-481mm-19-radius-curve-%5B2%5D-25-p%5Bekm%5D180x80%5Bekm%5D.gif

 

Study it carefully until you reach the next level of enlightenment...    

 

Rich K.

I didn't have time to make a post for some days, but eventually found one switch on the upper right that indeed uses a different 60mm piece. I reached a new level of enlightment!

So, the two 64mm tracks are included just for diagonal use to make a larger distance between the two tracks? To put a platform between for example.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Yes.

 

As a rule, there must be straight track in between 2 opposite curves. Right hand curve, straight, left hand curve.

[Densha]

What do you exactly mean with the the last last of your post? Do you mean that it has to be switch-curved-straight-curved-switch for a siding, or something else?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

No.

 

As you design your layout. Follow the path that a locomotive will take.

 

Switches or crossovers, doesn't matter. A curved track is a curve is a curve.

 

Straights of any length between opposite curves allow the wheels to center and the center of gravity of the train to  center before entering the opposite curve.

[Densha]

So you mean that it should not be like the first attachment (curved1.jpg), but like the second one (curved2.jpg)? I have seen many model railways doing it like picture 1 though.

But that actually does mean that you should not connect the curved track included with the switch without putting a straight track between it, right? But that's not like what the geometry images from Kato say, they just connect them together without a straight track.

[keitaro]

yes unless you like derails abunch :)

[bill937ca]

Common Errors and Oversights Made by Beginning Trackplanners

- or -

How Not to Reinvent the Square Wheel

 

http://www.cke1st.com/m_train5.htm

[inobu]

Densha,

 

You have to remember you are working with trains. They have trucks with short couplers tied to a long wheel bases. Its all about geometry.

 

Just imaging a 5th wheel with a trailer trying to navigate the switchback you laid out in img2. As the pulling force (engine)

gets further away from the S curve the tangent at the coupler/truck line becomes suspect-able to the lateral force from the switchback causing the derailment. Its the same principle behind a whipping motion. Back and forth movement until something snaps.    

 

To simplify it as Skipper is pointing out, the train needs time/distance (which equates to straight track) to change its direction of travel.

 

I think you are looking too deeply into this. Unitrack has been around for 20 years or so. Its well thought out for our purposes.

 

Just remember the three track spacing numbers and use your program and you will be good to go.

 

 

 

[Martijn Meerts]

It also depends on the radius of the curves used.. There's no way getting around an S-curve in some cases (the double crossover being a good example), but as the long as the radius is big enough, it works out just fine.

[Densha]

It also depends on the radius of the curves used.. There's no way getting around an S-curve in some cases (the double crossover being a good example), but as the long as the radius is big enough, it works out just fine.

So, the radius of the switches are probably big enough, so I could probably make an S-curve with a switch without problems, like Kato themselves state in their diagrams?

[Martijn Meerts]

Yes, as long as it's like the top option in the diagram.

 

The bottom option will work with regards to the curve, but it'll likely cause issues with wheels picking the points. In case of the lower option, you'll want to add some straight track, or use a double slip, although I'm not sure Kato has those.