Tokyo Metro Ginza Line Series 01 - disappointing interior

[The_Ghan]

Is anyone else disappointed with the interior of the Tokyo Metro Ginza Line Series 01?

 

I've received two of them and just had a good look.  Considering this is the first set to utilise the version 2 lighting, 11-212, I would have thought they might have done a better job on the inside of the car.  Note that the plastic "floor" is actually almost at window sill level, and well above the door sills.  Those windows are pretty big and easy to see inside. 

 

Being a subway car, it is an obvious choice for interior lighting.  Surely Kato would have thought about that.  Yet, you can't even stick people into the cars to make it look realistic.

 

Just wondering what you guys think about this.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Martijn Meerts]

The motor cars often (always?) have this issue, regardless of the brand. Of course, due to the large windows it's just a bit more obvious in this case.

 

So far, I've found that when adding interior lighting, the interiors start sticking out. Partially it's because the lighting kits are really too bright, and partially because the interiors are often a single color.

 

The Kato 800 series works well with interior lights, the windows are small enough. 1 of my Kiha40's (a MicroAce version) doesn't work with interior lights, because the entire interior is a rather nasty blue ;)

 

I've been considering paint the interiors to give them a less plastic and more subdued look when lit, but everything I see my train collection, I scrap that idea 

[Bernard]

Ghan - If possible could you post a photo of the interior of the car? Thanks.

[keitaro]

it's pretty compact. i don't think there are many nscale models that are that great inside. i mean the nscale figures never fit on any chairs normally without chopping.

 

i'm going to say this z scale people!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

less chopping and unless you pick the model up and look inside no one will notice there tiny leprechauns inside.

[westfalen]

I've used Z scale people in my Super Chief dome cars. You can get those cheap packs of 200 or so from China on Ebay.

[cteno4]

its just a school train! ive got a bunch of z scale people to use for children here and here.

 

jeff

[keitaro]

z scale are the best choice for inside trains. I mentioned this ages ago most zscale are only about 2mm from memory shorter and a bit skinnier than the n scale ones and really you end up chopping a good 3mm of most nscale figures anyway.

 

might as well have a more complete looking person in your train than one thats chopped at the waist.

[cteno4]

back to the old curt question what to do with all those little chopped off legs! im still a fan for a truck load of mannequin legs.

 

jeff

[bill937ca]

back to the old curt question what to do with all those little chopped off legs! im still a fan for a truck load of mannequin legs.

 

jeff

 

You could have a dancing line, partially hidden. 

[The_Ghan]

Ghan - If possible could you post a photo of the interior of the car? Thanks.

 

Bernard,

 

Keitaro has kindly beaten me to it, but have a close look at his three pictures. 

 

Although this is not the motor car, you will notice the raised section of floor for the greater portion of the car.  I find this annoying and I'm not sure why it is necessary.  I'm aware that manufacturers often fudge the floor level - I've just checked a Tomix 400 Series and the N700-8000 that I keep at work and the seat cussions are also only 1mm above the floor level - but I'm pretty disappointed with this raised section, which appears in all cars of the Kato Ginza Line train.

 

I know that prototypically there is not much inside these cars, just a line of fixed seats down each side basically, but I would have thought that this provides a better opportunity to be more accurate, especially considering that this is a subway train and is more likely to be illuminated than many other models.  Combined with those nice wide windows I think it is an opportunity lost on the part of Kato.

 

I don't have any MicroAce subway trains, but they are on my wish list for coming years.  I'd be keen to know what the interior of those is like.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

hmm well lets think in comparison to say an e231

 

an e231 is 3980 mm in height

 

a ginza line is 3465mm

 

so thats 3.5 mm less room to play with. Not sure if this is the case for the model would have to measure.

 

You will also notice that base for the pick up system clips to the windows of the car making it raise more.

 

I can see this change has been made to make the pick up for lighting better.

 

so i guess they made that compromise.

 

MA are good for inside i guess well at least the models i have a quite good with good sized seats etc.

 

not sure on subway ones though.

 

You won't like greenmax cars alot of theirs especially the kits are high.

[bikkuri bahn]

Makers should be lauded for minimizing the size of their mechanical bits for aesthetics, but if you're a stickler for low floors and nice interiors you're working in the wrong scale, imho.

[The_Ghan]

Makers should be lauded for minimizing the size of their mechanical bits for aesthetics, but if you're a stickler for low floors and nice interiors you're working in the wrong scale, imho.

 

Generally I agree, but I'm making a subway.  It WILL be viewed close up, not at a distance.  Perhaps I AM being pedantic.  The trains will only be stationary for a short time, afterall.  But then I'm back to the new lighting kit, the big windows, the fact that a subway train, really, MUST have lighting ... I've never thought this an issue on suburban, express, or shinkansens ... just he subway.  Perhaps I need to overcrowd the consist with people ... that would, afterall, be prototypical ... 

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[clem24]

Note that the plastic "floor" is actually almost at window sill level, and well above the door sills.  Those windows are pretty big and easy to see inside. 

 

This is pretty standard for good N scale... You have to chop off the legs of your passengers to make them look correct in just about any Kato and Tomix N scale car. Blame this on the metal weight that goes between the seats and floor. Plus you need decently thick plastic for the floors as well or else you'll end up with a car like the Con Cor Viewliners. If you've ever held one of those in your hands, you'll be thankful for Kato and Tomix.

 

PS> In case you're wondering, the Con Cor Viewliners are basically the cheapest of the cheap. They don't have interiors, and the floor is soooo thin that the plastic warps and constantly falls off the car body. You'd think they charge $5 for them, but they don't, but got away with it as they were the only company making Viewliners. Thankfully, Kato came along and made a proper Viewliner. Same price but WORLDS better.

[bill937ca]

Just noticed this on the Kato Japan web site.

 

SPECIAL INSTRUCTION

 

●   The interior light is a novel exploitation. We will inform you in details later.

 

http://www.katomodels.com/product/nmi/metro01kei_ginza_e.shtml

 

There you go Ghan.  The official answer is we`ll get back to you.  :)

 

But at least something is coming.

[brill27mcb]

Stand by to be exploited... 

 

Rich K.

[CaptOblivious]

Truth be told, given the photos, the amount of floor space looks just about like what's available in my other Kato commuter line models. It's the low ceiling that is causing the pain. So, it looks like Kato's standard construction techniques.

 

That said, most people will be standing in one of these. Pack it full of standing riders (sans legs and lower torsos...), and you'll never see the floor at all!

[The_Ghan]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks for tracking that down.  Unfortunately I think it is old information and refers to the new LED lighting kit that has now been announced and will be available in November.  I'll have to use it because the standard lighting kits don'e fit. 

 

Cap'n,

 

I was actually thinking of paper cut-out people inside these because of the need for a crowd.  Any thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[KenS]

I used unpainted preiser figures painted dark gray with a can of spray paint for an E231 I was setting up with lighting and DCC. Although the result wasn't bad, it wasn't as good as I'd hoped.  You can see a video of the train on the linked page, and although it's not as clear as in real life, I think the presence of passengers is quite hard to make out (they're there in the "Lit train with interior").

 

With the train moving, you really can't tell there are people in it. Without any coloring of the floor, the train is obviously empty, but that is helped simply by painting the floor and seatbacks as I did, which dims the light and provides some contrasting colors. With the train stopped, the bright interior lights make the lack of color in the passengers obvious.  That may be fixable just by painting some of the figures in other colors to break up the monotony (which could be done with them still on the sprue: just paint some sprues green, some blue, etc.

 

I think a simple cardboard passenger group would have the same problems.  The "cheap Chinese figures" discussed in another thread are probably a better answer.

[keitaro]

I think my people have arrived at work however I'm not at work tommorow, I'm else where for training. :(

 

If i get out of training early I will jump over if not I have to wait till monday. Can't wait to start putting people in my trains.

[The_Ghan]

You're gonna have to put a bunch of office workers crowding around those school girls ... leering ... groping ... prototypically speaking, that is ...

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

ok i did a car i could have filled it more but ..... turns out 300 isn't really all that much and i need some more varieties.

 

the figures are the same split between 12 types with different colored clothes so there not completely identical

 

pic 1 & 2 : a pro hobby 1:144 next to 1 of the 4 freebie z scale cars they gave.

 

Pic 3 : the prohobby guy next to a z scale guy.  - Note that the pro hobby person is bigger than the kato/tomix offerings by a touch.

 

pic 4 : the train with no shell and passengers

 

pic 5 - 8 : on track with lights on. number 7 seems to be the optimal lighting shame this is not achievable at realistic speeds that was 20% rest at 45%

[The_Ghan]

Hmmm ....

 

At first glance it looks pretty good, but then when I consider the car doors it suddenly looks like everyone is standing on the seats.  I think the people need to be N gauge with the legs cut off.  I would also have more people sitting.  But all round a pretty good effort Keitaro.

 

The bright lighting is a problem.  It's something I'm planning to rectify once I go DCC.  I expect to be using a Schotky diode and a 680 Ohm resistor (or something similar) to bring that current down.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[cteno4]

Hmmm ....

 

At first glance it looks pretty good, but then when I consider the car doors it suddenly looks like everyone is standing on the seats.  I think the people need to be N gauge with the legs cut off.  I would also have more people sitting.

 

i think thats because the car is not flat side on, but you are looking at it from above a bit. doesnt take much of an angle on a scale model like this to really change your perspective.

 

from the angle of the car they look about the right height inside to me.

 

jeff

[keitaro]

yeah best thing is they are perfect height in this model only 1 figure touches the lights. just and putting the plastic didn't move the figure just touches it.

 

IMO the nscale figures are either too big or the trains are too low on height a n scale figure will be taller than the door on most models i mean i never seen no one in japan have to bend their head down to get in a train and very rare in any country except for giants.