Kato Shinkansen 800 6 cars set 10-491 and 10-865 ?

[HiSpdTrainFan]

 I am getting a Kato Shinkansen 800 6 cars set  There are two versions.  Kato 10-865, and  Kato 10-491 which is the older version.

According to Kato's infos i found from here http://www.nscaledivision.com/kato_new_announcements.htm. The newer Shinkansen 800 version 10-865 has new road names, logos, and windows modification to match the curent  Shinkansen 800 line . Wonder if there is any new motor changes. Anyone knows? Which version should I get?

 

 

Kato 10-685 for $188 plus $28 ship from Japan

Kato 10-491 for $181.99 plus $10 ship from US

 

 

 

Tony

[The_Ghan]

Hi HST Fan,

 

Heres what I know about the 800 Series: Generally, it runs on the Kyushu Shinkansen line and has been in operation since 13th March 2004.  The consists were recently refurbished.

 

10-491: Depicts the 800 series Tsubame as it was configured pre-service in 2003.  It is based on consist U002.  It has the "Tsubame" Logo.  At that time, the Kyushu Shinkansen Line ran from Kagoshima to Yatsushiro.  There were possibly only two consists in service at that time.

 

10-865: Depicts the 800 series Sakura-Tsubame in its current configuration.  It is based on consist U003.  It has the "Sakura Swallow" logo.  The Kyushy Shinkansen Line currently runs from Kagoshima to Hataka.  There are four consists in service:  "Hakata / Sakura", "Kagoshima / Sakura" "Hakata / Tsubame" "Kumamoto / Tsubame."

 

Visible differences: You can see the difference in logos here: Kato 800 Series.  The top image is the 10-865 and the second image is the 10-491.  Also, the window placement of car-5, the end opposite the pantograph, differs in keeping with the refurbishment that was undertaken.  The moulded seating interior is different between the models - on 10-865 you need to clip off two pieces in order to install interior lighting.

 

There is no mention of flywheel or DCC compatibility.  The tooling for Kato models has not changed all that much in recent years.  I am guessing, but I'd expect the motors to be identical.

 

The matter as to which model to select is simple: Where and when are you depicting?  A pre-2011 layout should use the Tsubame.  A current layout should use the Swallow.  If you're not fussy get the one that interests you more.  Personally, I'm not running any Kyushu consists although I do own a 10-237 Relay Tsubame and will probably buy a 10-865 in due course.  I hope this is helpful.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Martijn Meerts]

I believe there were more than 2 of the "original" consists in service, considering Tomix had a U005 which they released as a limited edition.

 

Anyways, I don't there's any differences between the 2 Kato offerings, other than the visual changes The Ghan mentions. The older release does have a flywheel motor, and runs great really.

[The_Ghan]

I should have checked Wikipedia earlier.  I'm surprised Kato didn't take the opportunity to release a model based on one of the three new consists with the modified red strip on the cab cars.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[HiSpdTrainFan]

@The_Ghan

Maybe Kato will realease add on cars to the newer set in the near future due to longer road services of the Shinkansen 800? IF so, getting newer set would make more sense. Besides, both older and newer sets are $180ish price range.

 

 

@ Martijin Meerts

There is no info of motor change... So i'm assuming the flywheel motor is same with the newer set?

 

Thanks guys for your responses!

 

cheers

 

Tony

[jappomania]

Hi Tony,

excluding new logos and modified molding on car 5 (2 windows closed) is the same train, flywheel motor but not DCC friendly like the last productions (no plug and play "doors" on the lower chassis)

 

@Ghan second run units U007 U008 and U009 require more changes, frontal light lenses and remodeled hole on the nose of both head cars (closing one windows is much simple and cheaper  )

 

HD photo at request

 

ciao

Massimo

[keitaro]

they are the same motor unit from what it looks

 

the only difference kato mentions is the inside seating parts.

 

which require a slightly different install for lighting from the 10-491

 

shame kato don't have an assay to 100% confirm it.

[Martijn Meerts]

We'll probably see the U007/008/009 version at some point, either from Kato or Tomix, or both.

[The_Ghan]

Hi Tony,

excluding new logos and modified molding on car 5 (2 windows closed) is the same train, flywheel motor but not DCC friendly like the last productions (no plug and play "doors" on the lower chassis)

 

@Ghan second run units U007 U008 and U009 require more changes, frontal light lenses and remodeled hole on the nose of both head cars (closing one windows is much simple and cheaper  )

 

HD photo at request

 

ciao

Massimo

 

 

Massimo ... actually, the numbering of all the cars is different also.  I think the cars are pre-numbered?

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[HiSpdTrainFan]

Hi Tony,

excluding new logos and modified molding on car 5 (2 windows closed) is the same train, flywheel motor but not DCC friendly like the last productions (no plug and play "doors" on the lower chassis)

 

@Ghan second run units U007 U008 and U009 require more changes, frontal light lenses and remodeled hole on the nose of both head cars (closing one windows is much simple and cheaper  )

 

HD photo at request

 

ciao

Massimo

 

 

So, if i want to DCC it later on, and avoid cliping the seats in car 5 to install the interior lights.... I should get the older set 10-491  instead?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

You would install the decoder into the lower chassis not the passenger area. Grind some metal to make a pocket.

[jappomania]

Hi Tony,

excluding new logos and modified molding on car 5 (2 windows closed) is the same train, flywheel motor but not DCC friendly like the last productions (no plug and play "doors" on the lower chassis)

 

@Ghan second run units U007 U008 and U009 require more changes, frontal light lenses and remodeled hole on the nose of both head cars (closing one windows is much simple and cheaper  )

 

HD photo at request

 

ciao

Massimo

 

 

Massimo ... actually, the numbering of all the cars is different also.  I think the cars are pre-numbered?

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

Yes, they are all pre-numbered, inside the box you find only the destination stickers like add-on

it's the same for all the 800 series released until now

Tomix Kiosk U001 is numbered 8xx-xK/10xK, U003 and U005 8xx-x/10x, all with old Tsubame logo

Kato U002 (old logo) and U003 (new logo)

I think is the first time that half of real Shinkansen fleet was reproduced (excluding single prototype like Dr.Yellow or A and B prototype)

I wait if someone make the 1000 and 2000 subseries! or I make it from myself.. (molding is the same but not the paint scheme, they are  difference between U007/U009 and U008)

 

ciao

Massimo

[keitaro]

did we ever find out if the sakura is dcc freindly?

 

i tried searching most i could find was linkey bought it but no mention of compatability.

[jappomania]

did we ever find out if the sakura is dcc freindly?

 

i tried searching most i could find was linkey bought it but no mention of compatability.

 

No, none is DCC friendly, the last 10-865 has been only slightly modified (2 windows closed on car n.5 and new logos), all the rest is like the 10-491 without sled for plug-in decoder on the bottom

 

ciao

Massimo

[keitaro]

Thanks.

 

I thought as much.

 

I want another 800 series i have the tomix set but i think i'll wait for the new one out in dec

[linkey]

I don't place DCC units into my trains due to the fact I can't run them on a non-DCC layout, in the future it might happen but we (the group I am with (Australian Japanese Model Railway Group)) are just happy to run the trains on out modular layout and getting to see kids and adults ask us questions and seeing that they quite enjoying seeing the trains run.

 

As of the (KATO) 800 series Shinkansen "Sakura", I actually haven't looked inside the Car No.5 to see the motor and if the DCC unit can be in so it's nice to know that other members here have done so and if I was going to place a DCC unit it I know that a lot of work needs to be done which I don't feel comfortable to do so as I still want the 800 to run 

 

cheers

[cteno4]

sarah,

 

you can always think about taking over one of your lines on a club setup with dcc at a show if you have members that want to run dcc. we have done that easily in the past on the jrm layout.

 

jeff

[Densha]

@linkey

There exist DCC decoders that can operate with DC as well.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Isn't dc and DCC compatibility a NMRA standard for decoders?

 

I always program CV29 to be DCC only. I have never liked how DCC trains cry on dc tracks or just won't run.

 

It's easy to convert on dc rail to DCC. Just switch the wires for the day.

[Densha]

@Webskipper

I don't get everything you said because I don't have much experience with DCC, but what I wanted to say is that there are DCC decoders that make your train able to run on ordinary analog DC as well, without 'crying' and such. I don't have experience with them, but saw/read something about it a while ago, but it is from an European supplier. I don't know about standards.

[cteno4]

ive always hated that as well. the couple i bought with decoders installed that were dc compliant worked horribly on dc so i ended up pulling the decoder and just jumping the feeder wires. wish all decoders were on the underside of the car and easily pullable so you could pull them out if you wished and just put in a jumper block to run on dc! no pulling shells off, etc!

 

ive often thought if and when i get time i would start doing dcc wiring on the power cars and wire in plugin sockets with jumpers so when/if i started to do dcc i could wait till i had the $$ to buy a large pile of decoders and do the jump quickly from dc to dcc. right now i would be looking at something like $5k in decoders...

 

jeff

[keitaro]

@linkey

There exist DCC decoders that can operate with DC as well.

yeah decoders do work but they require a larger voltage to start.

 

I think It's a little like

 

DC - E5 shinkansen

knob 0% > 10% nothing > 20% slow moving etc

DCC E5

Knob 0% > 20% nothing > 30% nothing >40% slight noise > 50% all of a sudden running fast and leds don't reverse

 

My diagnosis is the decoder requires a level of voltage to determine dc or dcc once it has enough to start and do this it then rams that power right to the motor meaning no slow acceleration.

 

In fact i have found that my dapol A4 Mallard which actually requires more vlotage than my typical japanese model runs better with the decoder in on dc than a kato one will. I put a digitrak decoder nem in the mallard i bought a bunch for when i one day move to dcc.

Not saying it runs good still, but it is a bit easier to do a smoother acceleration on it.

[Densha]

@keitaro

But as confirmation: a DCC decoder used with a DCC power pack will move slowly too right?