Amtrak Shows Off JR-W 300-Series

[Guest ___]

Taken from the 2011-2012 Amtrak 40th Anniversary Travel Guide. It simply states Shinkansen Super Express Bullet Train, Japan on a page showing Amtrak's future high-speed rail network.

[westfalen]

According to Wikipedia there are only 18 of the original 69 sets of 300's left in service, if Amtrak are looking at picking some up cheap they better hurry on down to the scrap yard.

[The_Ghan]

Amtrak is way behind the 8-ball if they are considering 300 series.  I remember being in Japan on my honeymoon with Wife 1.0 when they rolled out the prototype .... ta-daa! .... 1991.  20 years on and I've upgraded to Wife 2.0 (far better software, if you ask me), but my point is this: If Amtrak is looking at 300 series Shinkansen then I can probably con them into taking my ex-wife too !!! 

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

PS:  Of course Amtrak would choose a much newer train than the 300 series ... but I might still suggest they take the ex-wife!!!

[Guest ___]

I doubt they are considering it. I suspect that this was a stock shot they grabbed to use to illiterate their ambitions. Anything newer than the 300's may seem a bit too.... exotic for an American audience. Besides, the 300's would never meet F-DOT & FRA crash protection standards.

 

On a related note, Amtrak has stated they intend to retire both the AEM-7 fleet and the HHP-8 fleet within a couple years. The Acela's (or just the power cars) are slated be retired if they do not receive decent bids on rehab by 2016 -2018 according to an Amtrak (Acela) engineer I was chatting with at Union Station yesterday before my MARC train arrived. His statement went on to reflect the high cost of operation and service costs, downtime and the usual reasons operators give to refurbish vs replacement arguments.

 

This seems to conflict slightly with earlier reports of ordering more of the same train sets to expand service on the NEC and new service on the Keystone Corridor.There was  talk of ordering more cars to insert in to the train sets to make them eight cars from the current six. The only thing I could really draw for the conversation is that if they can't rehab the power cars they'd replace them,. and keep the current consists. But, I do not know to what level of knowledge an Acela engineer has on procurement.

[westfalen]

PS:  Of course Amtrak would choose a much newer train than the 300 series ... but I might still suggest they take the ex-wife!!!

They are probably looking at the 500 series, 500 is gotta be better than 300.

 

And that long nose should give better crash protection if American railroads would rather pour money into crash protection rather than crash elimination.

[bikkuri bahn]

And that long nose should give better crash protection if American railroads would rather pour money into crash protection rather than crash elimination.

 

And with a long snoz you can also hide a big ol' bell to ring when entering station limits (as per FRA regulations)- klang! klang! klang!, train coming through!- clear the cows!

[Guest ___]

Well crash elimination, there are VERY few at-grades left along the NEC and Keystone corridors, and the few that remain are slated for full closure within a couple years. The last three Keystone corridor at-grades were suppose to close earlier this year, but for some reason they haven't yet.

 

Historically Amtrak does not look to Asia but rather Europe for HSR trains. It's most likely going to be Alston, Siemens, or Bombardier.

[keitaro]

either way i hope japan and get the contract they need it right now.

[bikkuri bahn]

Historically Amtrak does not look to Asia but rather Europe for HSR trains. It's most likely going to be Alston, Siemens, or Bombardier.

 

Yes, indeed.  None of the big Japanese builders are targeting any contracts involving Amtrak (including non-HSR), preferring to deal with regional or state transit authorities.

[Mudkip Orange]

Besides, the 300's would never meet F-DOT & FRA crash protection standards.

 

Nothing currently made in Japan, Germany or France meets FRA requirements.

[bill937ca]

Besides, the 300's would never meet F-DOT & FRA crash protection standards.

 

Nothing currently made in Japan, Germany or France meets FRA requirements.

 

Well may be FRA is crap.

[The_Ghan]

Besides, the 300's would never meet F-DOT & FRA crash protection standards.

 

Nothing currently made in Japan, Germany or France meets FRA requirements.

 

Well may be FRA is crap.

 

As a white, anglo, English speaking, 6th generation Australian I don't mind saying that I'm tired of the fact that English speaking nations seem to feel the need to reinvent everything.  Rail is a classic example with neither the US nor Australia being able to come to terms with the fact that the Japanese, French and Germans do it better!  For heaven's sake!  FRA crash protection standards?  Of course shinkansens don't meet the requirements.  That's because the damn things don't crash!  But the Australian government is worse than the US, I think, with so many studies into HSR done since the original one in the mid 1960's.  Will somebody just buy something and run it, please? 

 

Australia went through the same ridiculous process with digital TV.  In the end, we developed our own standard which added a "parity bit" to the signal.  Apparently, the rest of the world was happy to broadcast 7-bit signal but not Australia.  Despite our flat land and clear skies some idiot still thought that the signal would be better with a parity bit added to broadcast in 8-bit.  Of course, no one in the world was making 8-bit digital receivers ... so the manufacturers had to do it just for us, resulting in over-priced digital TV equipment that has only recently become affordable.

 

Back to the rail world ... at least the English are employing Japanese technology in some of their HSR.  I don't know the details, I just read a few lines of a post to that effect.

 

Sorry for my winge, but I am just sick and tired of all these excuses for not employing perfectly sound Japanese and European technology.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[keitaro]

Ghan IF HSR actualy gets a step to where the govt is seeking applictaions you should create a group or petition to give it to japan.  i will join

[bill937ca]

If you don't know:

 

http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html

 

http://www.ebbc.org/?q=book/export/html/94

 

Most of these regulations are from an administration very close to oil interests.

[bikkuri bahn]

The Federal Railroad Administration was created in 1966 to set and enforce railway safety standards.

 

One good thing should a Republican win the White House in 2012 and actually carry out the promise of less government would be to eliminate the FRA.  I think the FRA ("Freight Railroad Administration") is just a front for the freight railroads to hinder any more passenger trains from running on their tracks. Of course, a Republican administration would also gut funding for passenger rail and transit, so in the end, it would be curing the disease by killing the patient.

[The_Ghan]

Still no takers for my ex-wife either !!!

[keitaro]

did you try loading a custom rom?

[Mudkip Orange]

http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html

 

I've probably read this article four or five times and it's like re-watching "Fight Club" or "The Fifth Element" - it never gets old.

[disturbman]

I've probably read this article four or five times and it's like re-watching "Fight Club" or "The Fifth Element" - it never gets old.

 

Indeed, that was priceless. I don't quite get how the mind of people working at the FRA works. Hopefully, they gave a weaver to Caltrain. Maybe regulation will change over time.

[The_Ghan]

http://www.ebbc.org/rail/fra.html

 

I've probably read this article four or five times and it's like re-watching "Fight Club" or "The Fifth Element" - it never gets old.

 

If that's your taste, as it is mine, then I'd recommend adding "Spy Game" to your movie list.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[spacecadet]

The Federal Railroad Administration was created in 1966 to set and enforce railway safety standards.

 

One good thing should a Republican win the White House in 2012 and actually carry out the promise of less government would be to eliminate the FRA.  I think the FRA ("Freight Railroad Administration") is just a front for the freight railroads to hinder any more passenger trains from running on their tracks.

 

Well, next time we have a grade crossing accident, only instead of 1 or 2 people dead we end up with 200 dead, then you can explain why we don't need FRA regs.

 

Japan doesn't generally need similar regulations because its system was built from the ground up for accident avoidance.  But if there is an accident, even on a relatively slow commuter line, watch out.

 

The FRA regulations still exist because our rail system is almost entirely open to the public, it's full of grade crossings, it's littered with a hodge-podge of different signaling systems (many of which are outdated), it's shared trackage between freight and passenger trains, and it has long stretches of poorly-maintained track even in areas used by passenger trains.

 

Now, you could argue that a new high speed rail line would be immune to most of those issues, just like most of Japan's rail system is.  And maybe that's true.    But the rest of the nation's rail system isn't going to magically inherit all of the accident-avoidance properties of any newly built corridor.

 

So most American trains are always going to need to be built heavy and tough, so when they do hit something (and they will) they don't flatten themselves to the thickness of a ream of paper as happened in Amagasaki.

[bikkuri bahn]

If so, then the US will forever be restricted to using custom-built (rather than off the shelf) expensive, energy-inefficient rolling stock that doesn't perform to world standards of operations.  The FAA doesn't require planes to be crash resistant (to paraphrase the linked article), but apparently trains in the U.S. are different as long as freight is king and sharing of track (rather than segregation) and grade crossings are kept as they are rather than separated.  And btw, riding a train in Japan is safer than in the U.S. 

[disturbman]

At the same time, if an accident like Amagasaki happens anywhere it will always kill a lot of people. Did you see the pictures? It's like the Eschede accident when a ICE rammed into a bridge. Overbuilt trains won't make that kind of impact safer. I mean, if you look for exemple at the images of the Chatsworth Metrolink accident you can see that the first passenger carriage was destroyed by the impact with its own locomotive. Anyway in that kind of accidents, I'm sure that a respectable amount of deaths and injuries are the result of passengers being propelled out of their seats and into something.

 

It's always the same argument. Over built doesn't mean safer. Look at cars, safety design is made to absorb chocs (and to avoid passengers flying over, protect them from impacts), not to pass through a wall. Same should apply to trains. Until proven other wise, frontal crumple zones are pretty effective to avoid overall massacres in grade crossing accident or head on crashes. The European and Japanese death record is not worse than in the States.

 

Every rail system in the world are open to the public, full of grade crossing, have shared trackage between freight and passenger trains and has poorly maintained tracks even in areas used by passenger trains. But that doesn't change the fact that the only way to avoid deaths is to avoid accidents. No need to burden railways with unnecessary and unproductive rules.

[Mudkip Orange]

@spacecadet, I don't think anyone would be nearly as annoyed if the Acela were required to have similar crush ability to a Comet or an Amcan. The thing is they required it to be MORE TANKLIKE.

 

That whole thing with Amtrak complaining about the risk Acelas pose to the rest of the NEC traffic? Yeah, that shouldn't happen.

 

Now if you want to argue that the traditional FRA requirement for stiff trains is appropriate for mixed-traffic running in the Midwest where ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is at-grade (including every other railroad), OK, you know what? I'm receptive to that.

 

But the FRA also needs to realize when to GTFO. Like on Caltrain, which has two overnight freight trains and substantial grade separation. Or... the NEC, which IS ACTUALLY FULLY GRADE SEPARATED on account of the PRR's penchant for overbuilding. Hey even the Keystoned line only has three grade crossings between PHL and Hburg, and those are all programmed to be replaced with ARRA funds.

 

And if Texas or the Okies or the Carolinians want to slap down some new tracks that don't have a bunch of grade-crossings and freight trains I don't think they should have to go through some complex and uncertain waiver process, the FRA should just step back and be like "hey, those tracks are cool, it's cool dawg."

 

You know, maybe we can have some setup where we allow ultralight trains but restrict them to 60mph on mixed track. That still shaves a shitload of money because cities and states can use the existing network to get to the city centers and then build the high-speed track through greenfield. That's how the TGV works...