Enoshima Electric RR Fun Poll

[Guest ___]

As stated above another fun poll by Shashinka.

[bill937ca]

Shouldn't the choices be "standard railway" or "light rail/tram" rather than yes or no?

[Guest ___]

I got booted while attempting to edit. I had hoped to be back online to finish the poll before anyone got to it. One of these days I'll remember I can click a preview button instead of post to view polls.

[westfalen]

I think it leans more towards a conventional railway than a tram line.

[KenS]

It is, of course, a somewhat artificial distinction.  What makes a "tram" not a "railway"?  Passenger operations only?  Use of electric propulsion? Lightweight trackage?  You can find all of those on rail lines around the world that clearly aren't "trams".  Street-running?  There are freight lines with short street sections. And tram lines that don't run in the street.

 

I think a "tram" line is characterized by short, electric, passenger trains. But in America there were many electric Interurban lines that also pulled freight cars. Were those railways, or trams?

 

The Enoden is clearly somewhere in the middle of the range between a pure "tram" and a "railway". You can pick one end or the other, and probably be equally right. I started to go with "railway", but then decided it had more the feel of a "tram".  Purely subjective, of course.

[westfalen]

One thing that characterises trams to me is cars running on line of sight with no signals rather than one train on a section at a time, Enoshima to me is a fully fledged railway with signals and railway style safeworking methods but traditional tram lines like those in Hiroshima, Okayama, Kumamoto, Nagasaki, etc do the former with trams bunching up one behind the other in heavy traffic.

[keiman]

Tram/Light rail in my book.

[ToniBabelony]

For me the Enoden is a railway line with special concessions on the embedded road section (which is in fact a long crossing). Plus, it is registered as a railroad as of 1944 by the Local Railway Act (before the current Railway Business Act). Today, it is difficult to distinguish trams from light-rail to railways, etc. I tend to go for the official registration as a description, not what can be interpreted by looking at it.

[marknewton]

According to Doug Coster, it's a railway. I reckon he'd know! 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Mudkip Orange]

It's at the railway end of the tram continuum.

[Mudkip Orange]

I tend to go for the official registration as a description, not what can be interpreted by looking at it.

 

The thing is that by the same definition, PATH is a commuter railroad like NJtransit or Metro-North. Yet everything from propulsion to loading gauge to fare collection screams typical subway or "urban rail."

 

In many respects Enoden's operational style is just frozen in time, many Japanese railways ran interurban-style service at one point. However being frozen in time itself can engender a category change. A woman wearing a corset in 1890 was typical; a woman wearing a corset in 2011 is either a fetishist or a period reenactor of some sort. Likewise the "liberal" healthcare bill that America passed two years ago was essentially identical to a bill drawn up by the ultraconservative Heritage Foundation in the 80's; it is because the center of politics moved so far right that it is now liberal.

 

So what charateristics make Enoden tramlike?

---600VDC propulsion

---Smaller loading gauge than standard Japanese railways

---Substantial in-street or side-of-street running

---Usage of articulated vehicles to negotiate tight curvature, 20m radius and below

---Lack of any interoperation (or even fixed connection) to other railways

[angusmclean]

Well it's spawned rubber-tyred offspring in recent times. Perhaps this is an LRV in road mode?

 

 

 

Angus

[angusmclean]

Oops. post didn't insert the image. May try later

 

Angus

[ToniBabelony]

The RhB (Rhätische Bahn) would like to have a word.

 

Source: http://www.michaeltaylor.ca/Ind/618-rhb-c-mt.jpg

 

In any way, the Enoden street section, which is only 300m long (not much compared to the total length of 10.1km), is essentially (and officially) a long level crossing with special concessions. The requirements are for the road traffic to guarantee a free flow of railway traffic by clearing the designated area where the trains run and don't hinder operations (this however fails quite badly sometimes). Just like the former Inuyama Bridge from Meitetsu (now rebuilt for railway traffic only). Plus, how about the Kumamoto Railway, which is running in the middle of the street with the same concession as the Enoden. The only difference however is the gravel on the railway part of the road, discouraging road traffic to run on it, but still being able to use it as an emergency shoulder. This is a long level crossing, like the one the Enoden has.

 

Source: http://mirahouse.dyndns.org/~mira/Streetcar/200805/6238A_070215-150533.jpg

 

This is different from the Keihan Keishin Line where trains (4-car 800 Series with 16,5m carriages) do actually run on a tramway section between Hamaôtsu and Kamisakaemachi and have a special concession for this section as well.

 

In Japan there are actually only three Light Rail systems which are seen as actual Light Rail: Toyama Light Rail, Toyama Chiho Railway Shinai Kidô Line and the Manyô Line. All other systems are quite strictly designated as trams and railways, with some exceptions as the Fukui Railway and the Keihan Keishin Line. The Enoden is no exception amongst these.

 

It's not how you yourself conceive the railway as it is, it's how itself is officially registered and that's how I see it is.

[Mudkip Orange]

It's not how you yourself conceive the railway as it is, it's how itself is officially registered

 

Yup, so then the PATH is tooootaly a heavy commuter railroad, juuust like the LIRR or NJT or SEPTA. Got it.

 

Besides, if Enoden wanted us to think of it as a railroad instead of a tram, it wouldn't intentionally design its rolling stock to be as "old-timey trolley" feeling as possible...

[ToniBabelony]

It's not how you yourself conceive the railway as it is, it's how itself is officially registered

 

Yup, so then the PATH is tooootaly a heavy commuter railroad, juuust like the LIRR or NJT or SEPTA. Got it.

 

Depends on how it is registered. If it's a rapid transit system, it's a rapid transit system. If it's heavy rail, it's a heavy rail system. I think one shouldn't confine oneself to how things are perceived in one's own region, but how things are where they actually are, instead of how oneself interprets things like these to fit in one's mind. This has nothing to do with political correctness, it's just simple technological terminology as per local definition. ;)

 

Besides, if Enoden wanted us to think of it as a railroad instead of a tram, it wouldn't intentionally design its rolling stock to be as "old-timey trolley" feeling as possible...

 

That's their choice. It still is a railway company. These 10 and 20 Types from Enoden have some strange livery that never ran. I'd rather have seen a continuation of the New 500 Types, as these are more appealing by design.

It's like Ueda Transport repainting their 7200 Series in the old livery, pretending to run on 750V, rather than 1500V. The 7200 Series never ran on 750V by the way. It's not much use, but it's about the looks and attracting customers.

[Mudkip Orange]

it's just simple technological terminology as per local definition. ;)

The US government defines high-speed rail as 90mph and above.

 

The UIC would disagree, but then, what do those French people know.

 

From now on, you will refer to the Southwest Chief as "high speed," based on technical terminology as per local definition.

[ToniBabelony]

From now on, you will refer to the Southwest Chief as "high speed," based on technical terminology as per local definition.

 

So be it. The same is applicable to the RE München-Nürnberg-Express (200km/h), which is still a Regional Express albeit its speed.