Tomix & Greenmax mechanisms

[dottney]

Here my convoluted tale.  I picked up some old Graham Farish passenger equipment (Class101 DMU's, HST, Class 47).  They all suffer from the GF split gear plague.  So instead of spending money on new wheel/axle/gear sets I figured I'd try to use some Japanese Greenmax and/or Tomix mechanisms for the 4 wheeled stuff (DMU's & HST). 

My question is are the Tomix and Greenmax power mechanisms (like this one on ebay- http://cgi.ebay.com/Powered-Motorized-Chassis-Tomix-Tomytec-TM-12-N-scale-/360359389844?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e717ea94 and http://cgi.ebay.com/Powered-Motorized-Chassis-Greenmax-5528-N-scale-/360290948352?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e3039500) able to have DCC decoders installed in them.

I've done a number of DCC installs and am comfortable isolating motor poles, doing some minor chassis mods and soldering.  I just want to make sure that these mechanisms are not totally out of the question.  If they are "DCC doable" I'll be in great shape getting my GF passenger stuff up and running on my layout.

Thanks for any advice and/or tips,

Dave

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't have any of the powered chassis, but I see no reason why they wouldn't be "DCC doable", as long as there's room to fit the decoder. Space depends on what shell will go on them, and whether or not you'd want the decoder to be out of sight and such.

[dottney]

Thanks for the quick reply Martijn.  I have only been able to find images like those on the ebay links and can't really tell what the mechanism/chassis looks like.  They are a far cry from the split chassis on many Atlas and Kato locos so I'm not sure how the motor is accomplished.

Again any tips or advice will be greatly appreciated.

Dave

[Martijn Meerts]

The split frame is usually only seen on loco's (in case of Kato and Tomix at least), where's things like shinkansen and EMU/DMU's etc. have brass pickup strips which lead current to the motor. From the (not very good :)) pictures, it looks to me like the powered chassis uses a similar system as the shinkansen/EMU/DMU's.

 

I'm fairly certain there are people on the forum who have a powered chassis or 2 lying around, so they'll be able to put up some better pictures.

[brill27mcb]

The Tomytec TM-series power chassis should be very easy to convert to DCC, but they do not have much pulling power.

 

Have you considered using a newer Farish by Bachmann chassis to repower the old Farish originals? They make a newer HST power unit (and train), as well as many others. I believe Hattons in England carry separate chassis for sale. I have an older Farish HST Intercity 125 train as well as an Intercity 225 train -- luckily mine run pretty well with the old chassis. Look up the website for BR Lines (Bob Reid) in England. He was their factory repair guy in days of old and today sells old Farish parts, including upgraded gears and geared wheelsets. He is very helpful. Also sells interior pieces for the coaches.

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

dave,

 

lemme guess, do you know Glenn McLain?

 

also rich kerr has some good info on various motorized chassis dimensions published here

 

http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/ChassisDim.htm

 

cheers

 

jeff

[dottney]

Thanks Rich, I have been in contact with BR Lines.  While replacing the wheel sets on the Farish stuff would be cheaper, I'm thinking that the DCC installation would be tougher.  But it is good to know that the TM chassis (what the heck is the plural of chassis??) don't pull really well.  I may just try them on the two DMUs I have, heck they've got to be able to pull two cars on a flat layout.

 

Jeff, nope I don't know that gentleman.  I have gone to the site you have listed though before and found it to be very informative.  Thanks.

 

I've found that for the HST Intercity I have I can fit a Kato Dash8 -B mechanism in with a bit of filing on the front of the frame.  So I may look for a deal on ebay or the yahoo nscale yard sale site for that.  I have to go to the hobby shop to check the fit of an Atlas SD70 with the Class 47 diesel again.  I think that's what I tried when I was there last.

 

I realize that these alternative mechanism won't match up perfectly but close enough is good for now.  Getting a new Bachmann/GF mechanism is going to be a bit more expensive that I want to go.

Again thanks to all for your suggestions.

Dave

[cteno4]

Dave,

 

sorry glenn just asked me yesterday for mechanism info for a chap that had a bunch of British shells they wanted to power so figured it might be you!

 

cheers,

 

jeff

[dottney]

OK reviving this thread.  I've put an Atlas Dash8 and C628 mechanism under the HST and the Class 47 with great success.

Now it time for the DMU's.  It looks like the Tomax TM12 or TM13 chassis will fit. Are the motors isolated on these chassis so that putting a DCC decoder in would be relatively simple?

 

Thanks guys,

Dave

[CaptOblivious]

OK reviving this thread.  I've put an Atlas Dash8 and C628 mechanism under the HST and the Class 47 with great success.

Now it time for the DMU's.  It looks like the Tomax TM12 or TM13 chassis will fit. Are the motors isolated on these chassis so that putting a DCC decoder in would be relatively simple?

 

Thanks guys,

Dave

 

 

In general, isolating the motor in the Tomix chasses is disgustingly simple. You should have no problems at all.

[dottney]

Great capt, I'm just checking measurements  and then will order one from Plaza Japan on Ebay.

Thanks,

Dave

[dottney]

OK a Tomix TM13 chassis arrived today.  Its going to take just a tiny bit of surgery on the frame to have it fit under the Farish DMU.  I put the chassis on a test track and was surprised at how quiet it is, though a bit sensitive to throttle input on DC. 

 

I've figured out how to take the weights off to expose the motor connections.  It appears that there are just two spring strips going from the motor brushes down onto the strips that collect power from the trucks.  I can't quite figure out how to remove the motor and I don't want to break anything.

 

Is the the motor isolated from the track connections strips except for those two springy strips?  If it is then I'm assuming the proper course is to just cut the spring strips on the motor and solder DCC decoder leads to the stubs left over and then make the other connections from the decoder to the power pickup strips.

 

If anyone has suggestions or insights into installing DCC in these chassis I'd appreciate the help (CaptOblivious??)

Thanks,

Dave

[brill27mcb]

I believe Bill simply inserts a small piece of double-clad circuit board between the motor feed strips and the chassis strips. This board has pre-soldered lead wires on top and bottom to the DCC card. Couldn't be easier and it's fully un-doable!

 

Also, if you look, the motor in Tomytec chassis are usually held in by a mounting subframe that has tabs poking into the side rails of the plastic main chassis. It's simple to pop the subframe (with motor) free from the side rails. Don't lose the driveshafts...

 

Rich K.

[dottney]

I just posted a kudos to tomix over in N scale.  I picked up a Digitrax DZ125 decoder today at a train show and have installed it in the Tomix chassis.  With adjustments to CVs5 & 6 the DMU now motors around perfectly.  I'll be ordering another for the other DMU I have.

Dave

[cteno4]

I believe Bill simply inserts a small piece of double-clad circuit board between the motor feed strips and the chassis strips. This board has pre-soldered lead wires on top and bottom to the DCC card. Couldn't be easier and it's fully un-doable!

 

rich,

 

is someone selling little piece of flex circuit board like this with copper on each side for dcc installs like this. this always seemed the best way if possible to me and wondered if anyone sold them or maybe even with leads attached to a dcc socket as a kit! great for those that are scared of a soldering iron!

 

jeff

[brill27mcb]

Not that I know of, Jeff.

 

I don't use DCC myself, but I must say using DCC programming features to slow down these zippy mechanisms is a good idea.

 

Rich K.

[cteno4]

Rich

 

Thanks seemed like a great little product to help do simpler dcc installs in the places you can get away with something like this

 

Jeff

[dottney]

Just a quick update here.  I now have two of the TM13 chassis for my British (old Poole Graham Farish) DMUs.  Both have a Digitrax DZ125 Z scale decoder installed and are happily running around my small layout. 

 

The installation was very easy, it actually took more time putting the Kapton tape on the pick up rails  to isolate the motor from the pick ups than it did soldering the wiring.  I did cut the weight on the motor pick up side so that there would no chance of shorting against motor contacts.

 

As I said before these motors/chassis run very fast.  I adjusted CV2 to 15, CV5 to 75 or 80 and CV6 to 45 or 50 and now the DMUs run at more realistic speeds. 

 

I have no idea if the actual Tomix locomotives have the same configurations as the powered chassis so I'm not sure if a DCC installation is as easy in them.  I think the quality of the chassis is very good.  Now the only caveat is that they are pulling two light weight DMU cars so I don't know what they're pulling is.

 

All in all I'm a happy camper!!  Thanks to all who have offered advice and info.

Dave

[brill27mcb]

No, the Tomix locomotive chassis designs are quite different from the lighter Tomytec power chassis units.

 

Rich K.