Kato Switch Switch Controllers

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hello everyone, I am currently building my layout and will be using a few Kato switches and have the blue controllers Kato 24-840

 

link: http://www.kato-unitrack.co.uk/kato-unitrack-24-840-point-switch-1483-0.html  

 

I see Kato also has these switches.  

 

Link:  http://www.katousa.com/images/unitrack/24-830-831-832.jpg

 

Do these switches also control the Kato unitrack powered switches? Is there any other suggestion on a smaller switch that I can use to control the switches? The blues ones are very bulky and I would like like something smaller.

 

Thanks

 

Spiff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Toggles.

 

Do a search on the google machine for "replacing Kato turnout switch controllers".

 

The Kato switches are convenient because they are user friendly. In reality, the Tin connectors are not the best conductors.

 

Checkout Mike Fifer's (fiferhobby.com) article on replacing Kato switches. FYI good prices and great service.

 

http://www.fiferhobby.com/html/how_to_make_kato_turnout_contr.html

 

Or fire up your Apple III and try this:

http://raicho.home.xs4all.nl/model/control/katoctrl/katodigital/Katodigital.html

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the links.

 

Spiff

[cteno4]

spiff,

 

you might want to check out the BCD circuit. its a really simple capacitor discharge circuit for coil swtiches that lets you use simple DPST switches on a control panel. in addition they give you the perfect pulse of power to get a good throw w/o burning the coils. you can wire them up with a simple euro terminal strip w/o soldering. just a couple of bucks a point if you source your parts carefully!

 

more info in this thread

 

http://www.jnsforum.com/index.php/topic,1260.0.html

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks for the link.

 

spiff

[inobu]

Spiff I have been looking at this and here is the beginning piece.

 

It is a mom off mom.

 

I learned that the designations for a momentary on switch is (on) so Kato blue switch is (on) off (on).  

 

 

 

This is from DigiKey  http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=SW311-ND

$1.29

 

Which makes it even better.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

beware of using a momentary rocker switch for coil turnouts though. if you lean on them too long you will start to fry them. the kato controller is a mechanical switch that once it snaps the contact snaps closed for a split second to fire the coil. this is mechanism is the thing that seems to break down with time in the kato controllers and stop functioning.

 

the bcd circuit sends a pulse like this from a capacitor discharge. the nice thing about the capacitor discharge is you can engineer it to be just the right sized pulse to get the optimal coil firing and not worry about frying the coil.

 

its tough to find good momentary on, especially (on) off (on), switches. they are usually bulkier than the micro toggle switches you can find. ive picked up great micro DPDT (even center off) toggle switches for less than 50 cents each. with the bcd you can use a simple and very cheap DPDT (just on on) to fire the coil and give you an LED indicator.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

Spiff,

 

I would explore the BCD if I were you. The DPDT is fine but it addresses only the switch function but still leaves the position indicator an open issue. I'm going to finish my portal and start on the control switch.

 

Inobu 

 

(Here we go....... try to get one thing done on the list and another one pops up. )

[cteno4]

Inobu,

 

are you planning on creating a new momentary contact mechanism or just an interesting mechanical end of the switch to look/function better than the kato one? we should talk as i want to talk with ray about the potential to create a kit for the circuitry for the BCD that could do the electrical work.

 

the issue we always had with the kato style controllers as even though the lever showed you the turnout position (thru or diverging), you had to both remember which turnout it was on the layout and what thru or diverging meant for that particular turnout! with 20 something turnouts that could get daunting with sporadic club operations. it was more prototypical of the old switch stations with the controller pulling the various point levers!

 

another fun thought is teaming the BCD up with an Arduino controllers and jrmi computer control to create an on the screen layout plan. but thats quite a few more steps. the basic bcd is something most folks can put together fast and get simple LED point direction lights.

 

jeff

[inobu]

ok,

[inobu]

I have been working on this for a few weeks testing components and it works really good. Just need to put it together. The control panel is integrated with the switch panels. It is 10"x7"x 2.5" tall. It is the same general shape as the Kato power pack.  

 

[smg id=1368]

 

 

opinions?

 

Shoot it down, say what it needs or if its ok. It does not matter to me would like to hear what you think.

 

Inobu  

[rankodd]

I think it looks great! Only thing I can see is that is a lot of dense switchwork, and will probably be a PITA to put together. Are you doing it by hand, or do you have a CNC rig of some sort to help it along?

[cteno4]

inobu,

 

great stuff!

 

why not integrate micro toggles or push buttons onto the diagram? this is the step that was always a pain on the jrm layout when we had like 30 some odd points wired. it was a pain with the 4 lines to figure out which controller to throw which way. we had the 4 lines different colors to help, but even then it was really quite hard to remember and then also turn your self around with points on the other side of the layout.

 

i have loved curt's control panel thats just laid out along the side paneling of his layout. you can just follow the route you want and throw the points the direction you want when get to it. really easy to use even though i dont know his layout diagram at all well.

 

i realize its hard to get into something small and also if this is something to sell then holes need to be drilled.

 

i do like the compact concept of the row of flat toggles and then the little area for the diagram that i assume would fit under a sheet of clear plastic for the user to slip in. then just a bunch of either kato plugs or screw terminals along the back. innards could be wired with the basic bcd circuit cheaply. simple one stop multiple controller for folks that would work swimmingly!

 

i did find a close enough match for the kato plugs at one point. also a friend thought they could probably source them overseas cheaply, we talked about potentially making some basic cables for sale that were past what kato sells or just providing the m/f plugs for folks that want to wire their own.

 

you are quite impressive on the cad!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

Thanks Guys,

.....a lot of dense switchwork, and will probably be a PITA to put together. Are you doing it by hand, or do you have a CNC ...

 

Yes don't remind me I see it is going to be a pain, I can get to a machine to help me out. but I'm trying to get a PCB to make it easier.

 

I breadboard the BCD and it works great. I set it up with bi directional LED. The thought was to incorporate the led into the panel where as the led would indicate the switch direction.

 

why not integrate micro toggles or push buttons onto the diagram?

 

There are tactile switches with LED's but they are SPST off mom and they drive the cost per switch up drastically. You would end up doubling the number of switches for each turn out. That drove me back to the switched with LED that respond to the turnouts.

 

I'm back on the portal and this will be next.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

BCD is simple enough that you could probably do it on a project board and not bother making a full custom pc board if you are not making a lot of these, then just solder pads next to each other together.

 

a couple of years back i looked at a company at Infocom that had wonderful micro switches. only issue was you had to buy by the gross, but not bad prices. they had some fantastic led toggle and push button switches and even some new LCD based switches that you could load a tiny bit map into that would show up around the switch or on its face. ultra cool with oleds. ill look around to see if i can find their catalog or some of the sample bags i had. they really had an astounding array of switches, much better than most of the stuff i have seen in the electronic house catalogs.

 

yes trying to put in the switches and leds on the layout does get tight. the toggle switch does indicate the switch direction some using simple dpst.

 

Eventually i would like to do either a master turnout control panel for the jrm layout but that would require another wiring harness for the control wire. alternative would be do some small clip on local control panels out at each module or two for local use.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[inobu]

If you run across the company let me know. Maybe I'll set it up where you can change the switch panel just in case.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

inobu,

 

ill search tonight, i know the couple of piles it should be in if it didnt get purged in the annual paperwork and catalog clean out. finding decent switches at decent prices is really hard!

 

actually i was shocked that there are hardly any interesting project boxes anymore! i went looking recently for a friend and there was nothing in that like 10"w x 6" deep x 2" tall area that had any shape outside a flat rectangle. also most were pretty pricy!

 

its something that has gone into the list of remember to look for something else that would work for this when walking around stores. one thought that came to mind was those plastic box picture frames. pop the layout diagram inside with a thin backing of styrene or thin ply then drill through for the holes. then you get your layout laminated under a layer of plastic and clean plastic edges. could do a small wood frame inside around the edge that would then show through. not great, but was the first thing that came to mind when i could not come up with a simple project box to use.

 

cheers

 

jeff

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looks great. I can many requests coming your way to build more lol

 

Spiff

[rpierce000]

Inobu,

 

I was just looking for a console for MY layout,(yeah doing research, I wonder if I will actually BUILD something) and came across these http://www.newark.com/jsp/content/printCatalog.jsp?cat=catalog128&display=zoom&page=2300&x=0&y=0 in the upper right of the page. They look like nice consoles and the price looks right to me. If you search their site for desktop enclosures there are a LOT of other options. I just thought I would let you know.

 

Bob

[KenS]

I used those Newark boxes, or something identical to them, on my HO layout.  Note that the white part is 0.064" (1.6mm) aluminum.  It's a pain to drill or cut, although it can be done with a power drill and a "nibbler" tool to make square cut-outs.  The end result looked nice, but after doing them I swore I'd never make another panel using micro-switches and a small box.  If I wasn't using a computer, I'd be doing one of those fold-out 1/4" plywood panels with lots of space behind it for wiring and full-size toggle switches.

 

Space-constrained wiring is no fun.  Although mine was complicated by having both A/B block control toggles (DPDT micro switches) and turnout controls (on-on DPDT micro switches for Tortoise switch machines with direction-indicating LEDs). Inobu's plan, particularly with a circuit board, seems like a better approach to wiring than trying to route dozens of short wires around each other (I used solid-core wire so it would stay where I put it, which added to the difficulty to an extent).

 

On the plus side, a small box (I used the 6.5" wide model) fits nicely on a modular fascia and long wires (like a 25-pin RS232 cable) could allow it to move from front to back (wire gauge would be an issue with DCC, but DC should be fine).  I built one for each 4' segment of a sectional layout and it was convenient to use.

[inobu]

Thanks Guys good info, I need to see one of those boxes may make things move a little faster.

 

Inobu

[cteno4]

Bob,

 

thanks ive used those style boxes like ken and all the same comments! that is a decent priced source as the ones i brought up quickly were not so cheap. i think these are just not used as much anymore!

 

there were some great plastic cases that had a shape/look very similar to inobu's that came in some good sized boxes as well that were pretty cheap. they were super easy to drill being like 2mm styrene. easy to do square shapes with a roto tool and knife.

 

ken,

 

serial or parallel cables are great for this sort of connection for low amperage things like switch controllers, etc and if you need a little more just double up some wires. we actually used just the serial cable pins (m/f) to wire all the power and switch connections on the first jrm layout. we used the bare pins and just sheathed them in heat shrink. made for plugs just a tad wider than the wire so easy to snake down holes in the modular layout top when we set all the track (and wiring) up on the fly. super cheap at a few cents per plug!

 

cheers

 

jeff

[espire]

Another option is to control the switches digitally. I use an Arduino and an Adafruit motor shield to send short 12-volt pulses to Kato switches, and they respond exactly as they do to the standard Kato switch controller. This is a very convenient option if you're already using an Arduino to automate your layout anyway!