SL (Steam locomotives)

[Nick_Burman]

Thanks Mark for the feedback. Does anyone know how much contact did Japanese locomotive designers had with their Western counterparts. I know that Japanese loco design was and is by committee rather than the work of one individual as in the UK or in France (for instance)> I wonder how much interchange of ideas the Japanese had.

 

Cheers NB

[marknewton]

Nick, I'd be very surprised if the JNR design engineers didn't have contact with their counterparts in other countries, but I haven't much in the way of hard information. I do know that many of the US companies that made loco components - "specialties" - had agencies in Japan pre-WW2. They obviously had some success, judging by the number of specialties adopted by the JNR on their modern engines. And that the various railway trade publications made their way there, so the JNR blokes would have been aware of the latest developments overseas.

 

I suspect that Andre Chapelon's work was well known in Japan, purely based on the front-end design of the modern engines.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[angusmclean]

The guy with the data lists had changed to a new site, but eventually found it.  It is worth looking at his other pages as he seems to be an interesting person with a bent for engineering in Japan.

 

http://www.geocities.jp/kigiken/jp_steam.html

 

The eight pages on this site contain the data (in Japanese) for steam locos, and some comparisons with some BR locos. You will have to put them through a translator (I use Google for a reasonable result) to obtain an English version.  Very satisfying to obtain some facts to compare possible performances of Japanese steam locos, so make sure you back up with copies on computer or paper :)

 

Angus

[spacecadet]

Anybody else get to visit the Umekoji steam locomotive museum and take a ride?  That was one of the coolest things I've done in Japan.  I have a bunch of pictures of that if anybody's interested.

 

They have some pretty nice n-scale layouts there too.

[westfalen]

Anybody else get to visit the Umekoji steam locomotive museum and take a ride?  That was one of the coolest things I've done in Japan.  I have a bunch of pictures of that if anybody's interested.

 

They have some pretty nice n-scale layouts there too.

 

I've been there a couple of times, I think it's a good museum in that it shows the steam locomotives in their natural habitat as they were in real life, on one visit they were working on a locomotive in one of the stalls and with an engine in steam outside the place was full of authentic sounds and smells that you just can't get in a nice air conditioned exhibition hall full of engines polished and shined to within an inch of their life.

[marknewton]

Anybody else get to visit the Umekoji steam locomotive museum and take a ride?  That was one of the coolest things I've done in Japan.  I have a bunch of pictures of that if anybody's interested.

 

I'm always interested in seeing photos of Unmekoji. When I last visited the museum  there was a group of schoolchildren being shown the loco firing "simulator".  When they had all had a turn, I asked the guides if I could have a go. They looked amused, but offered me the shovel. I started to fire the thing as I would with the engine I normally ran, a few rounds down the front, two on each side, both back corners, a couple under the door, and then a flick of the wrist to spread one evenly across the middle of the grate. The guides had by this time stopped giggling, and one of them asked me  - in quite good English - "Have you done this before?" "Yes", I replied, "Once or twice."

 

The upshot of it all was that I spent the rest of the day with the crew of the engine in steam, I had a great day there.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[spacecadet]

Here are the photos I took from Umekoji in 2006, including photos from inside and outside the roundhouse, the running train (in one shot, there's a 500 series shinkansen going by us!), and a few shots from the museum section including their layout:  http://picasaweb.google.com/famousoriginaljeff/UmekojiSteamLocomotiveMuseum?authkey=Gv1sRgCNf92IPs4M6oJw&feat=directlink

[westfalen]

Here are the photos I took from Umekoji in 2006, including photos from inside and outside the roundhouse, the running train (in one shot, there's a 500 series shinkansen going by us!), and a few shots from the museum section including their layout:  http://picasaweb.google.com/famousoriginaljeff/UmekojiSteamLocomotiveMuseum?authkey=Gv1sRgCNf92IPs4M6oJw&feat=directlink

 

Good shots. I'll dig out the ones I took and see if I've got anything different, I visited in 1990 and 97.

 

A shinkansen going by! How many railway museums can offer that attraction?

[westfalen]

Anybody else get to visit the Umekoji steam locomotive museum and take a ride?  That was one of the coolest things I've done in Japan.  I have a bunch of pictures of that if anybody's interested.

 

I'm always interested in seeing photos of Unmekoji. When I last visited the museum  there was a group of schoolchildren being shown the loco firing "simulator".  When they had all had a turn, I asked the guides if I could have a go. They looked amused, but offered me the shovel. I started to fire the thing as I would with the engine I normally ran, a few rounds down the front, two on each side, both back corners, a couple under the door, and then a flick of the wrist to spread one evenly across the middle of the grate. The guides had by this time stopped giggling, and one of them asked me  - in quite good English - "Have you done this before?" "Yes", I replied, "Once or twice."

 

The upshot of it all was that I spent the rest of the day with the crew of the engine in steam, I had a great day there.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

Did you use that little, short handled shovel I've seen Japanese firemen using in a lot of videos?

[bikkuri bahn]

A shinkansen going by! How many railway museums can offer that attraction?

The railway museum in Saitama is also good in this respect, with shinkansen line on one side and a 1067mm line on the other, with both passenger and freight trains regularly passing by- the visitor can be made aware that just beyond the walls sheltering those "stuffed" but admittedly admirable museum locos is a real working railway.  The NRM in York is also suitably located, IMO.

[marknewton]

Did you use that little, short handled shovel I've seen Japanese firemen using in a lot of videos?

 

Yes, Alvin, I did. We use the same style of shovel here in NSW. They're pretty much the standard throughout Australia and the UK.

 

When the first engines from were imported in to Japan from the UK, they included a kit of tools and parts, so the short fireman's shovel would have been established in Japan early on. All of the Japanese engines I've been on used them.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

Did you use that little, short handled shovel I've seen Japanese firemen using in a lot of videos?

 

Yes, Alvin, I did. We use the same style of shovel here in NSW. They're pretty much the standard throughout Australia and the UK.

 

When the first engines from were imported in to Japan from the UK, they included a kit of tools and parts, so the short fireman's shovel would have been established in Japan early on. All of the Japanese engines I've been on used them.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

The ones I'm thinking of appear to have a handle only a foot or so long.

[marknewton]

The ones I'm thinking of appear to have a handle only a foot or so long.

 

Yeah, that's about right. Ours are roughly 14" to 16" long, depending who made them, and when.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

The ones I'm thinking of appear to have a handle only a foot or so long.

 

Yeah, that's about right. Ours are roughly 14" to 16" long, depending who made them, and when.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

You've got me thinking now, has Alzheimer's started to set in or are ours up here longer? Next time I see a steam loco in Mayne yard I'll have to check the shovel.

[bill937ca]

 

Yamaguti line 11 days from the date of October 09, 2010 SL No. Yamaguchi is, C57, C56 has been leading the drive in the form of 14 consecutive double Naniwa-based salon car.

Train name "SL No. Yamaguchi Naniwa," which has been installed base of specialty green head mark.

Upstream, the first C57, C56 was then operated auxiliary push-pull.

Steam Locomotive train "SL Yamaguchi".

[bill937ca]

 

Photographers notes:

 

The Chichibu Railway Express [sL] Pareoekusupuresu headed the C58 is 363 days from September 10 operation, the aircraft was somewhat unusual form of "iron gate def" is equipped with.

Speaking of Def iron gate the aircraft type has emerged in November last year, in March 2008 and the first train [7] ~ Pareoekusupuresu has been provided, such as when driving in August, now Kagoshima Prefecture are stored in the same city Shibushi Unit C58, 112 new production was slightly pointed tip deflector.

 

Holiday falls on September 10 at 3 and 11 days operation, the Unit 363 "Railroad Day" in commemoration of the head puts the mark, adding to the charm to the image plane also changed. This type of sharp tip ("K-9" is referred to as type I), driving in the future on the date of shooting is scheduled nine days.

2010.10.11

[bill937ca]

 

Yamaguti line 11 days from the date of October 09, 2010 SL No. Yamaguchi is, C57, C56 has been leading the drive in the form of 14 consecutive double Naniwa-based salon car.

Train name "SL No. Yamaguchi Naniwa," which has been installed base of specialty green head mark.

 

Downstream, Miyano - Niho Hazama crossing of Zhongshan University, Tokusa - Tokusa S-shaped curve of the ship Hirayama, filmed in two places.

Steam Locomotive train "SL Yamaguchi".

Listen

Read phonetically

[bill937ca]

 

 

[bill937ca]

C11 190

 

 

C11 207

 

[Nick_Burman]

 

Photographers notes:

 

The Chichibu Railway Express [sL] Pareoekusupuresu headed the C58 is 363 days from September 10 operation, the aircraft was somewhat unusual form of "iron gate def" is equipped with.

Speaking of Def iron gate the aircraft type has emerged in November last year, in March 2008 and the first train [7] ~ Pareoekusupuresu has been provided, such as when driving in August, now Kagoshima Prefecture are stored in the same city Shibushi Unit C58, 112 new production was slightly pointed tip deflector.

 

Holiday falls on September 10 at 3 and 11 days operation, the Unit 363 "Railroad Day" in commemoration of the head puts the mark, adding to the charm to the image plane also changed. This type of sharp tip ("K-9" is referred to as type I), driving in the future on the date of shooting is scheduled nine days.

2010.10.11

 

Hmmm, simply...perfect?

 

Cheers NB

[bikkuri bahn]

Railfan talk is incomprehensible to most Japanese, even more so when machine translated...FWIW, the "iron gate def" refers to the variation-rich smoke deflectors produced by the Moji Depot in Kyushu- Neko Publishing has a book devoted exclusively to these types.

[Nick_Burman]

Railfan talk is incomprehensible to most Japanese, even more so when machine translated...FWIW, the "iron gate def" refers to the variation-rich smoke deflectors produced by the Moji Depot in Kyushu- Neko Publishing has a book devoted exclusively to these types.

 

I was actually referring to the C58 in the film...

 

cheers NB

[miyakoji]

Neko Publishing has a book devoted exclusively to these types.

http://rail.hobidas.com/blog/natori09/archives/2009/06/post-1039.html

 

Wow.  If that isn't an obscure area of interest in an obscure area of interest, I don't know what is.

[marknewton]

That C58 is simply perfect, IMO. 

 

As for a book about smoke deflectors, yes, it's obscure, but I'm interested!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bikkuri bahn]

The C58 was fitted with the mondef, probably b/c it's a railfan pleaser.  JR East did the same with the D51, I believe.  Not prototypical for the region, but hey.