Samurai_Chris Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well show me where I can buy the latest Brisbane commuter trains, and I will buy them? I saw the new model when home at Xmas, and liked what I saw... Chris Link to comment
Bernard Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Only modelers of Japanese railways would be complaining that their trains go too slow. LOL How true! Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Chris, I'm still concerned about the voltage being put to the tracks. Any chance you could borrow a voltmeter from a friend, and check the voltage output of your throttle under load? Link to comment
clem24 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 LOL without getting too scientific, yes my Tomix N1000CL controller doesn't put out a lot at all. Hook it up to my MRC controller and the trains fly! But I have a feeling motor longevity might be an issue on full throttle hahaha. I lose CL light function but gain at least 3x speed + momentum and brake (though the latter 2 geared towards HO). Link to comment
David Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ok, so I have set up a test track of Shinkansen slab rail roughly 2240cm long, with a radius of 391-354/45 at each end.. I'm trying to figure out the length of your loop, but I think some of the measurements are labeled in a confusing manner. 2240cm is more then 22 meters or 73 feet! Is it really 2240mm? (this divides perfectly for Tomix sectional track, which is what the curves suggest you are using). And is that the length of one of the straight sections, or the length of both straight sections (the 391mm radius curves would be about 2455mm in length if both ends where straightened out). My best guess, assuming you have a 2240mm straight, a 180 degree curve, another 2240mm straight, and another 180 degree curve to return to the start is that your outer loop has a total length of 6935mm, or 1.109 scale km. Which means your train is running a scale 344 km/h based on a lap time of 11.582s. This is actually surprising close to the real thing, considering that Japanese N scale motors are not designed with scale speed in mind (the fact that your Microace EMU is slower is not an intentional nod to the prototypical speed of the real thing). I would be careful with your other controller - Japanese trains are designed for 12V, and like most American controllers the MRC is likely putting out 14V at the top of the throttle (even 16V+ if it's an N/HO controller). 1 Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Hi David.. Each strait is 8 sections of 280. The ends of the track are made up of 4 sections of 391-354-45 corner pieces.. 180 degrees. So infact my strait is 2240mm, and then add on the extra length for the turns at each end.. I would assume that it would be much longer as you suggest.. The 2240mm is one strait section. So times that by two and then add the ends.. You are correct, I simply ruled the length of the track as it sits, and didn't take in account for the length of the bends at each end.. So when I run it in 7 seconds, then that means its doing nearly 600km/h... Wow.. I should put the handle back on my controller and be happy with it.. Bernard, I will see what I can do.. If I was in Aus, I would have everything at my disposal... Chris Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Case solved, I think! At this point, then, I return to my explanation that model trains, because of our usual point of view, appear to be running considerably slower than they really are… Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Captain, never doubted you mate, but after seeing many Shinkansens up close, they do hoot through at a rate of knotts and have the noise of a freight train to-boot. I tried getting down to eye level, but it still didn't seem realistic.. I am however happy that my controller is working the way it is meant to be. But I will cut a few mm's out of the case to allow me say an extra 10% of power to be accessed.. As for the MCU cars. They probably run at around 80-100km/h.. So no problem with getting a realistic looking speed out of them! Chris Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 David, if I am correct. Then for the length of my track is to be 6935mm. Then to run my Shinkansen at opperational speed of say 257km/h. I need to get a lap time of around 15.5seconds per lap? I will re-measure the track from the outer rail when I get home... Chris Link to comment
Mudkip Orange Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Only modelers of Japanese railways would be complaining that their trains go too slow. LOLOLOL Link to comment
keitaro Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 i wonder if you could mod a train to run synchronus dual motor for 600 km/h awesome ness haha. Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Actually, I have been wondering about how to DIY a way to get power to all wheels on my Kato 800 like the Tomix setup on the N700-8000. The power to all wheels really is an excellent idea! Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ok, I have just re-measured my track, and it comes out at roughly 4724mm.... The whole radius.... I also bought a new Tomix N-1 controller (green) to see if my other was faulty, and I recorded an average of 11.4s per lap with my Tomix N700-8000.. So what does that time work out to in Km/h? Chris PS: I get 238km/h Link to comment
Sir Madog Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 My calculator also shows 238 km/h. Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ok, I have just re-measured my track, and it comes out at roughly 4724mm.... The whole radius.... Hang on, how did you get that number? are the straight-aways shorter now? My calculations agree with your earlier ones: 8 x 280mm x 2 (8 lengths on two sides) = 4480mm a full 360º of 391mm radius curve = 2*391mm*pi ~= 2456.7mm sum = 6936.7mm, about 1.7mm longer than your previous calculation. Link to comment
Guest Closed Account 1 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 doesn't it also depend on amp going through the track ? e.g. My bachman does 1.2 amps where my new one does 1amp flat for both tracks so on my bachman at 50 speed i do notice it's faster than my new controller at 50 speed. the N1 is .05 amps so that would be reducing the speed some what. correct me if i'm wrong Amperage has everything to do with it. Amperage pushes the potential (Voltage) against the resistance. My Kato 800 series is wicked fast but my 700 looks like it will fly off the tracks. Try running one train at a time. Kato recommends one controller per track even though you can use a 3-way splitter or wire up your own double track feeder. Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 doesn't it also depend on amp going through the track ? e.g. My bachman does 1.2 amps where my new one does 1amp flat for both tracks so on my bachman at 50 speed i do notice it's faster than my new controller at 50 speed. the N1 is .05 amps so that would be reducing the speed some what. correct me if i'm wrong Amperage has everything to do with it. Amperage pushes the potential (Voltage) against the resistance. My Kato 800 series is wicked fast but my 700 looks like it will fly off the tracks. Try running one train at a time. Kato recommends one controller per track even though you can use a 3-way splitter or wire up your own double track feeder. The current available is important, but this description isn't quite right. The throttle generates a voltage across the motor, the motor responds by drawing current (which varies because the resistance of the motor varies depending on the torque produced), and the throttle supplies this current passively (imagine the motor as a water pump, the electric current as flowing water, and the throttle as a passive reservoir of water with a tiny pipe coming out of the top; the size of the tiny pipe restricts how much water the pump can draw at once). Having more trains on the track does not reduce the current available to any one train (unless the total current draw exceeds the rated maximum, and there is some kind of cut-off device), but it does reduce the effective voltage, which shows up as an all around slow-down of all the trains controlled by that throttle. So you are right to worry about having too many trains going at once. (I apologize if I'm coming off as a pendant or worse, but I do think it is important in the context of helping Chris out not to confuse him or end up giving him bad advice…) Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 I'm confused! I see where I went wrong with my last calculation.. I used string to measure the curved section of the outside track and got 122cm.. Instead of adding it in mm, I just added 122 to my original figure of 4480... It should be 1220mm for both ends... So I get 5700mm all up? Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The 'length" of a piece of curved track with radius r and section 45 degrees (which is 1/8th of a full circle) is r x 2 x pi x (1/8) Since you've got an oval of track, you have 8 of these pieces, so the total lenth of the curved portion of your oval is 2 x r x pi. When r = 391 mm, this comes out to 2456.7mm, about twice the figure you just stated... Link to comment
Mudkip Orange Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The 'length" of a piece of curved track with radius r and section 45 degrees (which is 1/8th of a full circle) is r x 2 x pi x (1/8) I like pie. Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ok, so I would rather take your measurements than mine Capt. So as it stands, my track is exactly 6936.7 as you innitially stated above. There for, (this is where I am having problems in calculating) my real world speed of 11.4 sec at 1/160 is? 6936.7mm divided by 11.4sec = 608.482456140mm per second. And multiplied by 3600sec (1 hour) =2190536.84210mm an hour. Then times by 160 to get scale = roughly 350km/h? Link to comment
disturbman Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I'm confused! I see where I went wrong with my last calculation.. I used string to measure the curved section of the outside track and got 122cm.. Instead of adding it in mm, I just added 122 to my original figure of 4480... It should be 1220mm for both ends... So I get 5700mm all up? Confused and not very good at mathematics! If both ends are 1220mm long then you have to add 1220 two times to 4480 which gives you: 6920mm. But you'll better off using the (basic) mathematic formula that gives you the perimeter of a circle (the one that Don gave you): 2*pi*r (r being the radius of that same circle). Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Yeah, I definately take Capt's measurements over mine.. Now I am just trying to work out the "real time" speed with all those measurements! Link to comment
CaptOblivious Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 No calc handy, but the number you cite accords well with other shinkansen models I have speed tested. So its in the right ballpark I think :) I'm getting the sense that we have another item to add to our nonexistent FAQ :) : how fast is my train going? Link to comment
Samurai_Chris Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ha ha, not wrong Capt.. I just talked to one of the Maths teachers at work and showed him my calculation, and said that he was surprised I worked it out! But at 350km/h, it still comes out too fast, and so I have figured that as JR Kyushu usually run around the 250km/h mark, I would need to be doing a lap in the 15.5-16 second mark for a true speed at 1/160 scale on that sized track... Link to comment
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