Fast Track To Nowhere - Ntrak Module with mixed Track

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Some of you recall the Tram shelf layout I started a while back. Well, finally got the green light from my Ntrak club and off that project goes onto a 30" X 144" Ntrak Module.

 

Trick here is to stay legal and be able to split the scenes literally between 2 tables. Refer to http://www.ntrak.org/Documents/Manual.pdf pages 4 and 5.

 

My Mountain Line will be a double track running through a 9 foot Viaduct Station.  Thanks to JRM for the help. I picked up a few kits to experiment. The end pieces will have to incline to meet the required 3.125" track height. Need to make up for a 1/2" difference. Perhaps shimming the tracks inside the Viaduct station might eat up the difference.

 

Snaking around and under the Viaduct Stations will be 2 or 3 Tram Tracks with programmed stops, and possibly doorbell switches that encourage interaction with the crowd (Push to Run Trolley). Already own 6 Kato Trams, 3 more reserved so may as well display them somewhere.

 

Out in front where the Traditional 3 Ntrak tracks rest (Red, Yellow and Blue Lines) are not one but, two 9 foot island stations. Here is another challenge, getting the 1:150 scale people over the tracks. Maybe a couple Modern Overhead (Kato 23-123) kits and a hacksaw will make it work over all 5 tracks.

 

Below are two images. First one is a quickly done with Railmodeller and Photoshopped to show the Orange Expander tracks. Second is brain storming with Unitrack and Unitram Tracks. Not perfect by any means right now. It's what modeling is all about.

[KenS]

If you don't want to replace the viaduct supports with something taller, consider raising "ground level" under the viaduct station slightly relative to the tracks at the front.

 

I built my viaduct station using 1/4-inch threaded rod screwed (with a power drill) into 1/4-inch ID PEX tubing, which was then sanded and painted to look like concrete columns.  The rod goes through the wooden surface of my layout and bolt/washer assemblies hold it in place. This let me make the height exactly what I needed, without using Kato's standard supports at all. If the supports are close enough together you can just rest the viaduct directly on them (I put a washer on the top for that), but I found that an aluminum carpet runner, inverted and with holes drilled in it, made an excellent support for longer distances.

[lordwinslow2]

Ken,

 

How do you secure the viaduct station to the new supports?  I see on one of the pics there is a metal rail, I am assuming that is the surface you use as well as keep the pylons straight? 

 

Winslow

[KenS]

The viaduct station rests on the posts.  The top of each post has a nut on it, with either a washer or the metal rail below that, held in place by the plex tubing below it.  The bottom of the viaduct (seen on it's side in the large photo) has a web of ribs.  The ribs rest on the washer or rail, and the nut fits between them. This still allows the station to move a little, but not as much as you'd think.  Mostly gravity holds it in place.

 

The vertical posts are clamped to the layout surface (plywood) using nuts and washers (see diagram), which holds them straight (they're fed through 1/4 inch holes drilled in the table, which also helps align them, but it's really the washers and the clamping pressure of the bottom nut that pulls them vertical). The metral strip does hold them in place (they're fed through holes drilled in it), but it's optional and I did some freestanding posts that match the diagram attached.

 

However, if your base was something like foam, rather than wood, you couid use the metal strip to hold them together and vertical, and just stick the end of the post into a hole in the foam (with a washer on top to make it stop at a specific height). This would be a bit harder, as the strip isn't as thick as the wood, so it doesn't do as good a job of enforcing a specific alignment, but I think it could be done with some care.

 

Also, as the diagram shows, I eventually switched from using the plastic viaduct base to a sandwich of wood and foamcore, which is a method used by JRM described by Jeff last year. However, the post method works with both types of surface.

 

This isn't a small amount of work. Cutting the rod can damage the threads on the rod, and restoring them with a tap-and-die set is a lot of work. I think I could have done it faster if I'd been more careful. And pex tubing is marked with printing that needs to be sanded off, and the material is fiberous, and painting can make it look fuzzy. I described the work I did here and here. But the end result was worth it to me.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Thanks Ken. I was brainstorming on how to creatively extend the support legs or hide a block underneath them to raise them up. Like under some ReadyGrass mat. It does not all have to be a concrete jungle. When you closer to the second picture. The stations are using the parking areas of the Unitram track. Still low.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Been a while since I posted.

 

Since then, the few pieces I have to cover the first 5 feet keep evolving or revolving to the point that I can now sit down and figure out the recipe for completing the 12 feet. Still waiting for the Kato Overhead Transit Station and island platforms.

 

I just saw some pictures from Chinese ground level train stations that have a sea of sidewalks across the tracks. Safer with overhead walkways. Who'll see a 300KMH bullet coming anyway?

 

Ok, so odd number of pieces are heavily used to create illusions and an informal look. Enough Unitram track can be used to run 4 Trams. Eventually all of my 8 Kato Trams will run at once when DCC.

 

I guess once the tables are built and everything can be viewed at once then I can work out the bugs. Such as, covering the roundabouts or painting them, hacking a viaduct support and maybe a viaduct.

 

N scale stairs are about 0.0625" which I can use to lift up the whole Shinkansen station a styrene sheet at a time to meet the 3.125" track height requirement.

 

What do you think of the front parking? Looks accessible from the road?

[KenS]

The parking lot looks a bit odd without an entrance. While you could drive across the sidewalk, usually there's some obvious gap in those for cars.

 

Of course you could pretend the entrance is under the station where it can't be seen.  You'd need some kind of fence or bumpers to keep people from driving onto the sidewalk in that case.

 

Walkways across tracks for employees are actually fairly common (presumably only where trains are moving slowly enough that you can see them coming). You'll often see them just beyond the end of the platforms, even in Japanese stations (narrow-gauge, not Shinkansen).  Walkways for passengers exist at smaller stations, but all of those I've seen have gates with lift-bars and flashing lights, not simply a paved path.  You'll often see that on a two-track ground-level station that has a single entrance on one side, so passengers can get to/from the far side platform.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Any hints on how to connect the main overhead transit station to the the second platform?

 

If I could disassemble the extra overhead transit station extensions, I'd be done.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Did some figuring.

 

What will have to happen to span across several tracks is to use at least 2 Overhead transit Stations and 3 Extension Kits.

 

In the picture above I'm already bashing 2 extension kits. My new Ntrak tables are 6" wider than original plans so another Passing or 2 is being configured to accommodate the span and park more Shinkansens and mixed freight consists.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Completing my 38 X 72 inch Ntrak tables this week. All new layout due to the new width and some logistics.

 

Since the modules will be stored in between shows, why not utilize them. Hence the elevated viaduct oval. Thinking elevated one oval per table.

 

Viaduct Station will have to be a double wide.

 

Your thoughts please.

[KenS]

What will have to happen to span across several tracks is to use at least 2 Overhead transit Stations and 3 Extension Kits.

 

I don't think it's quite that bad.  You can come very close with two Overhead Stations and one Extension set, leaving a 5 mm (3/16 inch) gap that you'd need to fill with some styrene.

 

The first photo below shows the two stations, with three tracks between them at the usual 1.5" Ntrak spacing.  The short (33mm) corridor between them comes with the platform extension, I think (I can't recall for certain, but I'm pretty sure from this photo), which is the only part of that you'd use from that set.

 

You could also use one station and one extension, as shown in the second photo, which would leave a 12mm (1/2 inch) gap in the rear corridor (which doesn't lead down to the platform). The problem is that the big front corridor (which does lead down) has a 44mm (1 3/4 inch) gap to fill there, and no standard part to do it with.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Ntrak Tables finished and ready to dry fit some track and transfer the track plans from the computer into realtime. Each table is 36x72 inches.

 

Changed the station track layout to work with the overhead stations and for a possible overhead oval for when I have one of the modules in the apartment. I can then still run my own trains.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Working out the bugs in the Tram line. Multiple station stops.

 

Does any model maker make a Tram Station like this?

[rankodd]

Greenmax has street level tram stops that look like that.

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10007634

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Have those in Kato thanks. Prefer the center type.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Just an update.  Doing a dry run to work on spacing.

 

Ignore the viaduct supports that are blocking track. Need to do some creative work in those areas. At least there is some depth to this layout.

 

Second picture shows no place for people to get up to the viaduct station.  Island station have a staircase that will bring people to the upper station. Placement of the station is vital to the people coming from the Tram stops. 

 

Any suggestions? The current tracks look unnatural on a viaduct station but, the flow is sweet.

 

Also, will fencing suffice to prevent people from the street from walking onto the tracks or a wall?

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Does Kato make a 124mm Viaduct Station?

 

Otherwise, plan C says go with open viaduct straight track to  bridge gap.

[cteno4]

nope just the 124 shops/cafe modules and the 248 station entrance.

 

how deep is this ntrak module?

 

can you post a pict of the whole thing? interesting.

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Ok, had to ask.

 

Below is my final design. Changed several times but, spacing all is legal per the Ntrak.org manual. Completely stripped down and then rebuilt at the new clubhouse.

 

All I have to do is raise up the Viaduct Station with a full sheet of grey plastic (0.0625" thick). I'm at 3.0 to the top of the rail as is. Then incline the viaduct straight track to meet the standard which yields less than 1% grade.

 

This will make the track meet the 3.125" Mountain Line standard and allow flexibility to mate to the next guy's module. Will try and see.

 

The Overhead Station staircases need to be raised to match the street. Double Stacks have no problems slipping under the walkways.

 

Goal for the ends of the 36 X 144" scene are dividers (3" deep mountains) containing ICE type tunnel portals to create a separation from the previous scene.

 

Promise new pics more often.

[CaptOblivious]

Just an update.  Doing a dry run to work on spacing.

 

Ignore the viaduct supports that are blocking track. Need to do some creative work in those areas. At least there is some depth to this layout.

 

Second picture shows no place for people to get up to the viaduct station.  Island station have a staircase that will bring people to the upper station. Placement of the station is vital to the people coming from the Tram stops. 

 

Any suggestions? The current tracks look unnatural on a viaduct station but, the flow is sweet.

 

Maybe not so vital. Japanese urban designers don't seem to have too much of a problem forcing people to walk a few dozen feet more if necessary.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

Never say final design....  

 

Below is a copy of my current Ntrak design.

 

Maybe you can make sense of the spurs. I definitely want the Green Line doubled so as to start a trend for new modules having double track lines. My next module will have double tracks. Like in real life. I have to have another module because I need to erect the two super parking structures somewhere.

 

All the tracks north of Tucson in AZ are going concrete. That's the look I want, just that I cannot find all my pieces without wooden ties.

 

I have 10 solid feet of real estate in between the Green, Blue, Yellow passings for the Station Platforms. The Red Line is being left open for express and freight.

 

What I am understanding from all the pages out there on these pieces is purchase 23-107 (flat), 23-108(w/stairs), and then 23-109 (200mm end piece).

 

For those of you that have 9.5+ foot platforms, are you using the 71mm or the 200mm platform end pieces?

 

In the RailModeller program, it looks like I need 10-11 of the 248mm pieces and 2- 71mm ends. Grrr. Guess I have to get one 23-120 set and play with the fitment.

 

Can either of the end platforms fit safely into the Y ends of the passings? Trying to maximize the structure to move more people.

 

Also, should I really go with the concrete double track for running between the platforms? Is it just for the structure spacing or to avoid laying scenery?

[cteno4]

webskipper,

 

not sure what you mean by the 71mm ends. on the jrm shinkansen station which uses the standard kato platform track spacing and the old style platforms we use the 23-103 and 23-104 platform ends. one thing to be careful is you dont want to push these all the way out to the ends of the Y as some longer trains can bump the end of the platform when they are swinging on the curved side of the point. while it may not derail right there we have seen derailments as it then hits the points. since most shinkansen trains are pretty tightly coupled with their diaphragm mechanisms a little bump on one car can tip the car on either end some, just enough to cause it to pick a point or jump a flange way. we just had this happen for some reason again at a show last weekend and shortening the platform up some fixed it. we have custom cut platforms that shorten the overall platform to the right length, but it looks like that needs to be shaved like 1cm now!

 

so your club has a mountain line in the rear? will that be what the large station will be attaching to?

 

jeff

[Guest Closed Account 1]

71mm Platform Ends come in the 23-120 modern set.

 

I picked up 2 sets of the previous kato Platform design and found it doesn't want to mate to the Overhead stations.

 

So, keep the new modern square end platforms out of the Y? Does that provide enough platform to get people onboard?

 

In that case, my calculations (2667mm) show that I need 10- 248mm platforms and the 2- 71mm platform ends.

 

Or, 2- 200mm ends (23-109) and 9- 248mm platforms.

 

Yes, a Club Rule is that all modules shall have a Mountain Line (Green Line). My Viaduct Station mates perfectly. 13 inches on center from the Green to the Blue. It pretty much sits centered on the Unitram Plates.

 

Shopping for textured styrene to eliminate the parking lines, and pin striping to convert the right hand drive traffic patterns. Do you recommend Microtrains Dry Transfer?

[KenS]

What I am understanding from all the pages out there on these pieces is purchase 23-107 (flat), 23-108(w/stairs), and then 23-109 (200mm end piece).

 

For those of you that have 9.5+ foot platforms, are you using the 71mm or the 200mm platform end pieces?

 

I used the older curved ends on my 10-car Commuter platforms (which also use the matching 23-100/101 platforms), but the square ends (70mm ones from the 23-120 set) on my Shinkansen line (which uses the new tile-surface 23-107/108 platforms).  One reason for this was I needed the extra platform length of the curved ends on the Commuter platforms (which had to be shorter due to lots of curves to get to them). For the square end I'm presently using the V15 set and the 70mm end works well with that.

 

I think square ends are more prototypical for a major station, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

In the RailModeller program, it looks like I need 10-11 of the 248mm pieces and 2- 71mm ends. Grrr. Guess I have to get one 23-120 set and play with the fitment.

 

Can either of the end platforms fit safely into the Y ends of the passings? Trying to maximize the structure to move more people.

 

Do you mean using a square platform end with a normal turnout? You'd need to keep the end withing the section where the tracks are parallel, as it's exactly the same width as the rest of the platform.

 

Prototype it with actual track on a table or floor before you commit to a design (yeah, that means buying some track you may end up not using).  RM is only approximate at times.

 

Also, should I really go with the concrete double track for running between the platforms? Is it just for the structure spacing or to avoid laying scenery?

 

You can use two single tracks or double-track for a double-track line between two platforms.  I prefer double track for both appearance and maintaining spacing. However, if you use an overhead station you'll need single tracks under it so the "legs" that hold up the station can come down to table-level.

 

I picked up 2 sets of the previous kato Platform design and found it doesn't want to mate to the Overhead stations.

 

Note that the new platforms can be used directly under the Transit Station and attached to older ones away from it (which is what I did on my Commuter line).  You get some mismatch on the roof, but the roof match isn't perfect even with the new ones.

[Guest Closed Account 1]

My 3 crazy lanes. It's my #6 Switch answer to using a #2 Wye to make 4 lanes within a tight corridor like viaduct stations.

 

Still maintaining about 8 feet of track per bullet train.