Did any US diesels end up in Japan?

[Morian Miner]

I've pretty much purged my N-scale roster of US equipment and am planning a Japanese-based layout.  One item I cannot get rid of is a GP7 my wife bought me when we were dating in college (early 90's - yikes).  I've tried searching the web and have had no luck - has anyone ever heard of US diesels (such as the GP7 and GP9) ending up in use on a Japanese railroad? Or, will I just have to use some "creative license" in having my GP7 push around some cars on the still-in-planning layout?

[Nick_Burman]

Other than a bunch of Plymouths delivered to logging and construction railways (and promptly plagiarized by Sakai and Kato Works!), the only US diesels to hit Japanese rails were a bunch of US Army GE 47ton centercabs, transferred from the Phillipines after the occupation then sold to JNR (who considered them rough-riding and banished them into dock switching service).

 

Cheers NB

[bikkuri bahn]

I believe that would be the DD12 type:

http://www15.plala.or.jp/hidekih/usarmy.html

 

http://minkara.carview.co.jp/image.aspx?src=http%3a%2f%2fcarview-img02.bmcdn.jp%2fminkara%2fphoto%2f000%2f001%2f957%2f606%2f1957606%2fp5.jpg

 

http://minkara.carview.co.jp/image.aspx?src=http%3a%2f%2fcarview-img02.bmcdn.jp%2fminkara%2fphoto%2f000%2f001%2f957%2f606%2f1957606%2fp6.jpg

 

Apparently the reason why almost no US diesels were used on Japanese railways was that the diesel-hydraulic transmission was favored (lower axle loads?), and the U.S. makers only offered diesel electrics.  Also, post war Japan had very little foreign currency reserves, and thus could not afford large purchases of foreign made rolling stock, and thus focused on building stock domestically.  Another possible reason could be the development pattern of Japanese railways, with the transition often being from steam directly to electric traction.  Main line diesel was not needed as much, especially with regards to passenger services, where non-electrified routes were provided with lightweight DMUs.

[Morian Miner]

Okay, thanks for the info.  I'll just have to make sure no "experts" see the unit running around the layout. Then again, its an older Atlas Geep that is too long and too short a wheelbase.  Maybe I can build it a new body....

[westfalen]

I run my Japanese trains on my U.S. layout and I don't lose any sleep over it. Just tell the 'experts' that model railroading is supposed to be fun.

[bikkuri bahn]

Yeah, I'd just go ahead and run it- a Geep is just too nice to keep in a box in the back of a closet.  It's too bad that Japanese fans have never had the treat of of hearing a 567 notch up.

[Tecchan]

I run my Japanese trains on my U.S. layout and I don't lose any sleep over it. Just tell the 'experts' that model railroading is supposed to be fun.

 

Same here, I run a Swiss train, Shinkansen, East and Kyushu trains on the same tracks.

 

And, in the end: it's just "toys" the point is having fun with it, don't worry too much with "could this be possible".

[keitaro]

agreed and just remember it's a mythical layout for most so you don't have to stick to an era or country. Just buy the trains you like and enjoy running them.

[Mudkip Orange]

You have a woman who *bought you trains while you were dating*. Clearly, a memento of this fortune trumps any judgement on your layout that might be rendered by a hypothetical Andy Sperandeo or Tony Koester. Whenever you think about getting rid of the geep, just repeat to yourself: This woman fucks me.

 

Should be an easy decision.

 

 

 

(waits for mods to edit post)

[Fenway Park]

Doesn't one of the Hokkaido mining railways have a GE diesel class U18?

[Nick_Burman]

Doesn't one of the Hokkaido mining railways have a GE diesel class U18?

 

U10B. The design is GE but the loco is by Nippon Sharyo. The loco differs in a few details from "stock" GE U10Bs and is the only GE diesel of any sort that I know of which has spoked wheels!

 

Cheers NB

[westfalen]

Here ya go. When I took the photos in September last year the original spoked wheels appear to have been replaced.

[KenS]

Interesting train. The U-boat is numbered DE601, and the locomotive on the other end is numbered D601.  Is that a coincidence, or is this a fixed consist so they numbered them to match?  It says "Shuttle Train" on the loco, so I'm guessing it's on a fixed route from mine or docks to consumer.

 

Any idea what the numbers represent?  It's obviously not the JNR-spec "DE = Diesel, Five-axles".  I'm guessing the "D" means diesel, but why does one have an "E" and the other not?

[stevenh]

...and the locomotive on the other end is numbered D601...

 

Just to destroy your theory... the end loco is D801.

[marknewton]

...the only US diesels to hit Japanese rails were a bunch of US Army GE 47ton centercabs...

 

How to make a rather plain loco even uglier.  

 

But what about the one and only JNR DD90? With spoked wheels too! I know it was built by Toshiba, but it's recognisably a GE 70-tonner.

 

 

 

Nice colour scheme, too. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[Nick_Burman]

Thanks Mark, forgot about this one. Never knew it had spoked wheels. Although built by Toshiba, mechanically it was (almost) a 70-tonner right down to the Cooper-Bessemer prime mover. Oddly enough it does not figure in the "official" GE builders lists floating through the Web (but the N-S U10 does). Did it ever become JNR property or was it always a demonstrator loco?

 

 

 

 

Cheers NB

[marknewton]

Nick, I'm not sure, but I think it did eventually become a JNR loco. It seems to have wound up as the yard shunter at Omiya. I didn't realise it had spoked wheels either until I started looking closely at the pictures. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bikkuri bahn]

mark is right, it became JNR property in 1958, and was redesignated the DD90 type (from DD41).  It served as a depot shunter at Omiya until 1971, when maintenance issues led to it being withdrawn.

[marknewton]

Thanks for confirming that BB, looks like my ability to interpret Japanese text is improving - slowly! 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

Interesting train. The U-boat is numbered DE601, and the locomotive on the other end is numbered D601.  Is that a coincidence, or is this a fixed consist so they numbered them to match?  It says "Shuttle Train" on the loco, so I'm guessing it's on a fixed route from mine or docks to consumer.

 

Any idea what the numbers represent?  It's obviously not the JNR-spec "DE = Diesel, Five-axles".  I'm guessing the "D" means diesel, but why does one have an "E" and the other not?

The line is about 4km long in the suburbs of Kushiro and runs from a coal mine to the docks, from what I gather they normally run three trips a day and I got a taxi out there just in time to catch the last trip of the day. I later found a DVD on the line in a bookshop in Akita which shows the interesting operation at the docks. There are two separate unloading trestles and the train is unloaded in two halves simultaneously, the interesting part is that the train splits on the move approaching the dock with the aid of remote controlled couplers, the first half runs onto one trestle and the second half onto the other pushed by the remote controlled loco on the rear.

 

My theory on the numbers is that 'DE' is for diesel electric and 'D' is for the more usual Japanese diesel hydraulic.

[KenS]

...and the locomotive on the other end is numbered D601...

Just to destroy your theory... the end loco is D801.

 

Heh, my eyes (and youtube) are playing tricks on me.  Thanks for the catch.

[marknewton]

the interesting part is that the train splits on the move approaching the dock with the aid of remote controlled couplers, the first half runs onto one trestle and the second half onto the other pushed by the remote controlled loco on the rear.

 

Now that is very interesting. How are the brake pipe taps dealt with? Are they also remotely controlled? I ask because when we top-and tail a train only the leading loco has it's brake stand cut-in and has control of the brakes. I'd be curious to know how they work this!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[westfalen]

the interesting part is that the train splits on the move approaching the dock with the aid of remote controlled couplers, the first half runs onto one trestle and the second half onto the other pushed by the remote controlled loco on the rear.

 

Now that is very interesting. How are the brake pipe taps dealt with? Are they also remotely controlled? I ask because when we top-and tail a train only the leading loco has it's brake stand cut-in and has control of the brakes. I'd be curious to know how they work this!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

I'm not sure how they work it either. The hoppers have Scharfenberg style couplers, the ones in the photo are near the end of the train and are covered for protection from weather or coal dust I assume. I didn't know about the splitting at the time or I would have walked to the middle of the train to see if the couplers there were uncovered.

[KenS]

Interesting.  You don't normally see tight couplers (Scharfenberg or similar) on freight trains, because they lack the strength of knuckle couplers.  And while this freight is pretty short, it's also hauling coal, which makes for a fairly heavy train.

[bikkuri bahn]

Interesting.  You don't normally see tight couplers (Scharfenberg or similar) on freight trains, because they lack the strength of knuckle couplers.  And while this freight is pretty short, it's also hauling coal, which makes for a fairly heavy train.

 

I wonder if the push-pull arrangement and the use of articulated cars helps in this respect.