What I need to light up my Kato roster!

[The_Ghan]

Wow!  Here is the math to light up my Kato roster - note: this does not include 4 MicroAce and 5 Tomix EMUs:

 

32 x Kato 11-210    6 x LED lighting kit        @ $40.00    $1,280.00

54 x Kato 29-353    FR11 Lighting Decoder    @ $18.00    $972.00

85 x function decoder, see note below        @ $15.00    $1,275.00

 

Subtotal:                                                                  $3,527.00

Screw ups say 5%                                                          $176.00

 

Subtotal:                                                                  $3,703.00

Postage (presuming I split this over 6 orders)                      $150.00

 

TOTAL:                                                                    $3,853.00

 

That's a hard sell to the wife !!!  Is it worth it? 

 

Another question ... what is the cheapest decoder available for lighting N scale that is compatible with Digitrax (but transponding is not required)?

 

Finally, in my calculations, I have presumed that on non-DCC friendly trains the Digitrax decoders that I use for cab cars and motor cars will also do the lighting in those cars.  Thus, I will be using TF4's in cab cars with transponding and DZ123's in motor cars with transponding.  Other cars won't require transponding at all.

 

Looking forward to a bit of debate on this one.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[westfalen]

Seeing that decoders make up half the cost you ask yourself how much you need to be able to turn interior car lights off and add decoders gradually as resources permit, trains parked in a yard with the lights off could be simulated by killing the power to that track with a $1.25 switch. My own car lighting program slowed down a bit when I realised how rarely I run trains in the dark.

[Martijn Meerts]

Remember that with lit cars, it becomes a lot more obvious when interiors are empty and use 1 color for everything. Changes are that starts to annoy you at some point, and you end painting the interiors and adding people. This adds even more costs of course.

 

Personally, I do plan on getting interior lights for all my trains, including a decoder in each car. I'm going to do this gradually though, 1 train at a time ;)

[The_Ghan]

Hi westfalen and Martijn,

 

Both valid points.  I rather like the idea of adding people to the cars ... but I've only managed to find 25 hours in a day.  Also, I've noticed that illuminated cars look great even in moderately lit situations.  But then, if someone asked me how to spend $4k on my layout I doubt I'd seriously light up the whole Kato roster.  I think I'll start with 5 or 6 trains on my subway.  Even then, it's hundreds of dollars.

 

I am reviewing the situation.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't know if you already have a lit up train (Kato offers various trains with factory installed interior lighting), but you could always try to add light to 1 train and get a good idea of how it looks. You could also add decoders to that train to see how much work it is etc.

 

Of course, with the LED light kits, you could choose to not install decoders and have the lights always on. LEDs don't generate enough heat to cause any damage, and they don't really use that much power, so it won't have that much effect on how many trains you can run on a single digital central/booster.

[Kamiyacho]

My preference is to have some different examples of fully-complete highly-detailed projects scattered around the layout.  For example, I can say to visitors "this bus is complete with a driver and passengers", but all of the 100's of buses and cars don't have it.  Same for lighted train interiors - I'm hoping to have one well-lit and populated passenger train to wow visitors during "night runs" but I don't feel a need to do them all as most of the time it is just me and the cat down in the train room.  And the cat doesn't care.

[disturbman]

I will have to agree with Martijn on both account. Try yourself on one train to see how it looks and then maybe decide not to install decoders. Keep it cheap, this is already an expensive hobby and there is much more interesting stuff to put your money on than decoders for an entire fleet of lighted trains. :)

 

You could also decide to equip only the trains that you like the most, the one that run or will be running the most on your layout.

[CaptOblivious]

I myself am fond of the interior lighting, and rather enjoy the process of populating cars with people. If you've got enough people, the color of the interior doesn't matter so much in most cases :D

 

Anyway, I'd say skip the decoders. The FR11 is about the cheapest you'll find for the purpose, but you should ask yourself: Under what conditions do you need to turn the lights off? Westfalen's solution of just killing power to the track is not a bad one, but sidelined trains with lights on aren't that uncommon in the prototype either.

[David]

What is the shipping like from the US to Australia?

 

I buy my LED kits for $30 from MB Klein. Unfortunately getting the Kato cab decoders from them is hard - they are rarely used in Kato US prototypes, and when MB Klein gets them they sell out very fast.

 

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/KATO-N-Passenger-Car-Light-Kit-White-LED-6-P-p/kat-11210.htm

[westfalen]

sidelined trains with lights on aren't that uncommon in the prototype either.

Here in Brisbane there are only a few outer suburban yards where trains are shut down for a few hours overnight and that is so nearby residents don't complain about the noise of the air conditioners and air compressors running all night, even then when trains are stabled they are usually left powered up with the lights on until the cleaners to go through them.

[foxhsu]

I really can't image anyone will have a train set with 16 decoders inside. FR11 is not worth to install. 

[The_Ghan]

I don't know if you already have a lit up train (Kato offers various trains with factory installed interior lighting), but you could always try to add light to 1 train and get a good idea of how it looks. You could also add decoders to that train to see how much work it is etc.

 

Of course, with the LED light kits, you could choose to not install decoders and have the lights always on. LEDs don't generate enough heat to cause any damage, and they don't really use that much power, so it won't have that much effect on how many trains you can run on a single digital central/booster.

 

 

Hey Martijn,

 

I've got two trains with bulb lighting kits fitted.  I won't be able to use those on the DCC layout.  Also, the bulbs don't flicker as much.  I know I like the look of illuminated trains ... just going to have to portion my funds differently.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[The_Ghan]

My preference is to have some different examples of fully-complete highly-detailed projects scattered around the layout.  For example, I can say to visitors "this bus is complete with a driver and passengers", but all of the 100's of buses and cars don't have it.  Same for lighted train interiors - I'm hoping to have one well-lit and populated passenger train to wow visitors during "night runs" but I don't feel a need to do them all as most of the time it is just me and the cat down in the train room.   And the cat doesn't care.

 

You seem to have a problem with your cat !!!   

 

I like your style, Kamiyacho.  It offers a variety of surprises on the layout instead of one, big, rich piece of chocolate cake that is really too much to digest.  Good thoughts!!!

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[KenS]

I'll second what Martijn and CaptO said: skip the decoders for interior lights and just leave them on.  With Kato's LEDs the power draw is miniscule (I measured 3 mA per car, so a whole train's lighting draws about the same as the motor does under normal circumstances).

 

And I think lights make a very big difference, even with the room lights on. But it does motivate you to decorate the interiors.

 

As for expense: space them out and do one train per month, then it's only a couple of dollars per day.  It will take a long time to finish, but most things related to model railroading seem to take time.  It's not a hobby for the impatient. 

[Martijn Meerts]

I don't know if you already have a lit up train (Kato offers various trains with factory installed interior lighting), but you could always try to add light to 1 train and get a good idea of how it looks. You could also add decoders to that train to see how much work it is etc.

 

Of course, with the LED light kits, you could choose to not install decoders and have the lights always on. LEDs don't generate enough heat to cause any damage, and they don't really use that much power, so it won't have that much effect on how many trains you can run on a single digital central/booster.

 

 

Hey Martijn,

 

I've got two trains with bulb lighting kits fitted.  I won't be able to use those on the DCC layout.  Also, the bulbs don't flicker as much.  I know I like the look of illuminated trains ... just going to have to portion my funds differently.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

If at all possible, I would try to replace the bulbs with LEDs. Bulbs are designed for 12V, and even then they get hot. With DCC, the current on the track is often somewhat higher than 12V. Even with decoders and the ability to turn lights off, they'll still be burning for fairly long periods at a time, and end up causing damage to the rolling stock.

 

Bulbs don't instantly turn on and off like LED's do, they tend to have a bit of an afterglow, so the flickering is less noticable.

 

LED's can be left turned on easy enough, they won't damage the rolling stock. One thing though, the LEDs in the lighting kits (or more the resistor) are usually designed for 12V, but as I said, on DCC layouts there's often more than 12V on the track. So the resistor might need to be replaced. I'm not too certain about this though, I haven't done much of the interior lighting thing yet ;)

[CaptOblivious]

The problem with bulbs on DCC is not the possibly slightly increased voltage, but the AC waveform. Bulbs designed for DC work fine on AC, but get considerably hotter. Bulbs attached to decoders won't get any hotter than on a regular DC layout. Note, however, that the FR11 cannot handle the inrush current of bulbs, so if you do convert those cars, you'll need a different decoder. Or you could replace the bulbs with LEDs, as I did here:

http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/2010/01/18/kato-651%E7%B3%BB-dcc-pt-1-upgrading-interior-lights/

http://akihabara.artificial-science.org/2010/01/24/kato-651%E7%B3%BB-dcc-pt-1-5-interior-lights-nearly-done/

[The_Ghan]

Yes gentlemen,  I will be replacing those bulbs.

[foxhsu]

If you are using DCC system, my method maybe easy and cheaper. Just using resistor and 3mm LED to replace the bulb.

http://www.tts.tw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12842&highlight=e26

[KenS]

Very nice bulb-replacement solution!

[The_Ghan]

Hey Foxhsu,

 

Yes, nice bulb replacement for the cab car.  680 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor? I was going to use 750 Ohm.  Any comment on that?

 

I will be using this method to convert headlight and tail light to LED, but not for general in-car lighting.

 

For everyone else: I've ditched the idea of DCC for in-car lighting - just too expensive.  I've ordered 10 x 11-210 LED kits from ModelTrainStuff.  Even with higher shipping than Japan, MTS works out 10% cheaper.  I'll have enough lighting to do 5 x 11 car EMU plus one of my smaller 4 car sets.

 

Thanks for all the good advice.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

[CaptOblivious]

Hey Foxhsu,

 

Yes, nice bulb replacement for the cab car.  680 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor? I was going to use 750 Ohm.  Any comment on that?

 

Depends on, the DCC voltage you are using, the forward voltage, max current rating, and brightness/current response of the LED you select. In general, the exact value really doesn't matter at all, so long as it is in the ballpark. The LEDs I selected were very bright, which allowed me to use a large resistor to reduce overall current consumption. Dimmer LEDs, you might want to run closer to their rated current, which might mean (depending, of course, on the forward voltage!) using a smaller resistor.

[foxhsu]

Hey Foxhsu,

 

Yes, nice bulb replacement for the cab car.  680 Ohm 1/4W 5% resistor? I was going to use 750 Ohm.  Any comment on that?

 

I will be using this method to convert headlight and tail light to LED, but not for general in-car lighting.

 

Cheers

 

The_Ghan

 

  Yes, I used 680 Ohm. But my method is "ONLY" for in-car lighting with DCC track. For Headlight or tail light, this way will only light in one direction. You need to make sure which direction you want.

 

Fox